Better cuddles through the wonder of science and data

ShaneSchrute

I love me some science and cuddling. So naturally, I want to combine the two. I’d like to get a test before cuddling to get my baseline for dopamine, serotonin, endorphins & oxytocin. Sure I feel good after cuddling but in exactly what ways? Maybe there are adjustments I can make to have an even better experience or stop a bad experience. More good stuff and less bad stuff; that’s something to pursue.

So after establishing my baseline I’ll then start my tests and cuddle for a variety of lengths of time: 1 hour, 2 hours, 4 hours, 8 hours etc. (on different days of course) and get tested after each time. I’ll test times of day, day of the week, different temperatures, with stuffed animals, with no stuffed . Cuddling in a movie theatre vs. cuddling on a blanket in the woods; which gives me more of those sweet brain chemicals? I’ll test hosting vs. being a guest.

I’d like to dial in my cuddling get the most out of it. Maybe I’ll also test for how talking affects my levels. Maybe being silence for two hours spikes my oxytocin? How else to learn but through the wonder of science?!

Also, if I cuddle too much I crash; it’s a real grim depression. Is that chemical? I’d like to find out.

How about you? Would you want to learn your levels?

Nature_Lover_

💗💗💗💗💗 Yasssssss, lover of science here!!! Following!

There is data concerning dopamine schedule and I find it applies to the cuddleverse by way of when folks look forward to a cuddle, the release or dopamine in relation to the cuddle, and concerning other variables such as frequency and schedule of cuddling vs a pop up or unanticipated cuddle connection. I don’t have the links on hand but find a ton of science From both Robert Sapolosky on YouTube and Andrew Huberman.

Also, I recall a cuddler once posted about his sleep metrics being massively impacted in a positive way preceding cuddle sessions. 💗

Let’s not forget placebo and nocebo effects. There is serious science supporting expectations impacting actual physiological benefits 😊

I know cuddling and connecting for me personally gives me a massive mood boost and improves my sense of well being all around. Science indicates it boosts the immune system, sparks creativity and so so much more! My cuddle buddies report all kinds of benefits including the above mentioned ones and more ! I’m excited to see what kind of metrics, resources, facts and opinions this thread generates 😊

ShaneSchrute

@Nature_Lover_ cool stuff! Some of those things I hadn’t thought of. Awesome!

Not sure how a cuddle placebo would work. Double blinding seems doable though. I would 100% work with a physiology grad student on a thesis with testing and labs and the works.

Gallowglass

My regular cuddler has recorded pulse and I think BP, before and after our sessions. I don't remember anything conclusive, but worth the time, "in the name of science". (grin)

DaringSprinter

Ooh, I like this.

Maybe one of those person-pillows for a placebo? You know, something you can pretend is a human, but which isn't really.

JohnR1972

I realize this is purely anecdotal but I wear an Apple Watch and I have regularly observed a drop in my resting heart rate during during a cuddle (even below what my normal sleeping heart rate). I also got into bio-hacking and I now wear a continuous glucose monitor (CGM) on the back of my arm - I am not diabetic, I just want to be able to see real time data on my glucose levels for optimizing my body. Stress can make your glucose spike as your body prepares for “fight or flight”. I saw my glucose levels drop by 20 points during a cuddle as I relaxed with one pro on this site.

I will be interested to see what you learn about your cuddle experiments!

ShaneSchrute

@DaringSprinter yes but a placebo taker shouldn’t know they’re getting a placebo. They should believe they’re getting what everyone else is getting in the study. I’m going to know if you give me a person pillow instead of like a real guy. So maybe the study participants are not told what they’re testing for.

Nature_Lover_

@ShaneMTB my celebrity crush - Andrew Huberman of the huberman lab podcast referenced at some point ( memory is failing me regarding the episode ) a study in which a large group of people were given a seriously decadent, unhealthy milk shake and their biometrics were recorded before and after, a cognitive test was administered as well. A second group was also given a milkshake though this one was packed with nutrients and fat less decadent and unhealthy. They compared their data prior to and after consuming the shakes and NOT surprisingly, those who had the healthy shake felt and performed better while those who consumed the unhealthy one had negative impacts including significant spikes on blood sugar and poor cognitive performance ect. SURPRISINGLY- it was the same milkshake.

So my personal hypothesis would be that those who come into cuddle therapy with the intention of facilitating their own healing or otherwise benefiting or improving may indeed be amplifying their own health and well being benefits science already supports. 💗🤷‍♀️

There was an amazing client I have had who was quite guarded and skeptical and for very valid reasons - he was feeling this way about transactional cuddling. He was NOT certain he would benefit or even not be harmed by such a cuddle session though indeed he was curious and also knew he needed physical touch and connection. I connected with him via text today incidentally and he reported serious positive impacts even still after quite some time after our session! Big take away though is while he said the continued and dramatic positive impacts ( major improvements in health !! ) were a direct result of our connection I was quick to redirect as it was HE who facilitated these lifestyle changes and healing. Expectations may not be the end all be all and there are many variables but I just thought I’d share so we can all collaborate and discuss if wanted. 😊

I’ve had a multitude of family experiences / obligations / activities / honors ect as of late so please everyone verify all facts with reputable sources and research everything - I’m just sharing general ideas and concepts which may pertain to the thread though I don’t at this moment have the time to locate and post the links and site the studies. It’s quite possible I’m largely misquoting or otherwise mis stating the facts and studies I’m recalling. Definitely welcome and respect all opinions, facts, ideas and concepts - so per usual please take these references with a grain of salt as I’m just pulling from general memory.

💗science💗

Nature_Lover_

@Gallowglass that’s awesome !! Please share results of you feel compelled. 😊😊😊

DaringSprinter

@ShaneMTB: Or we could get a hyper realistic android from the future. Though that might take a while. My time machine still mostly sends stuff into the vacuum of space. Something about moving through time as the galaxy rotates, I think....

TheFunCartel

Cuddling has yet to grow the size of my heart so I am working on my plans for my annual Christmas heist. My sled is electric so I do have a bit of a heart…I guess.

ShaneSchrute

@Nature_Lover_ wow! I’m going to have to check out Andrew Huberman and his podcast! Sounds amazing.

Okay I found an independent lab who will run any number of thousands of tests for anyone. I’m waiting to get a quote for how much it’ll cost for my happy chemicals tests.

I can’t decide if this is a really stupid or a really great idea. Perhaps if it costs thousands of dollars it’ll be pretty stupid.

Gallowglass

@ShaneMTB There are many biometric test kits that will allow you to do labs from home. They probably don't get the fun chemistry but maybe there are some. I found them on Amazon.com.

ShaneSchrute

@Gallowglass thank you! That’s a great idea.

…especially since I just heard back from the lab and they can do a comprehensive test of the happy chemicals plus about 30 other Neurotransmitters. YAAAAY SCIENCE! However, each test will cost $589. So just doing a couple dozen and tests would cost about the same as a used car.

I’ll look into more modestly priced tests. I would love to find an organization with grant money and a desire to do a real study. Obviously, I’m not doing any real science, just sort of playing around.

Shake

Love this discussion. I think our bodies are amazing pieces of machinery and complex in the best ways. When my friend was getting her license for massage therapy, I was blown away by the things she would explain to me (not only that but demonstrate for me too) and how different techniques did different things, how massaging my foot could affect something in my upper body.

More then that, I was most interested in how it affected my brain. Dramatically my mood was different, I felt more open to hugs, and most interesting I felt more aware of myself if that makes any sense. Like at work, I started to notice how much I actually walk during the day. Weird but cool. I think that plays back into something @Nature_Lover_ mentioned. Sometimes the most powerful force against our bodies isn't physical at all, it's our own minds.

Gallowglass

@ShaneMTB I'm seeing a grant proposal, in your future. I'll be keeping an eye on your career. (only half teasing)

DaringSprinter

I definitely see why people get grants for this kind of thing. Whooee. Expensive. But I'd love to see the results of a proper study!

Gallowglass

I volunteer as a study participant.

Babichev

One thing that wouldn’t require blood tests would be measuring blood pressure. However, just lying down and relaxing will lower blood pressure so the question would be is there a significant difference between lying down and relaxing alone and lying down and relaxing while cuddling? That would be an easy experiment. You’d really need to do it lots of times to establish a pattern. If I were to do that I’d do it at the same time each day and possibly alternate between cuddling any lying down. I’d also make a note of my activities before and after, my mood, caffeine intake, exercise, anything that might affect blood pressure, and try to keep it very consistent so it would be a fair comparison. Otherwise you’d have to be drawing blood before and after and have lots of bloodwork done. Wearing a heart rate monitor could monitor your heart rate, also another marker. Both would be very low cost.

I’ve put some attention into reading research about placebo effects over the last 10 years. They are usually misunderstood, overrated, and highly controversial. Researchers themselves can’t agree whether they actually exist or not. Every time I think I understand it I find out I’m wrong so I don’t ever make any claims about them. A lot is attributed to placebo effect that is not. You know how they say in any study that about 30% of the results is placebo effect? That’s not correct. About 30% of the people given a placebo will improve but it’s not because of placebo effect, it’s because there are lots of reasons people improve between when they begin the study and when it ends so you have to demonstrate your treatment does better than just the passage of time. In addition, there are what they call nonspecific effects which some people confuse with placebo effects.

Some things that can appear to be a placebo effect but are not: natural progression of a condition, regression to the mean, coincidence, investigator bias, the subject telling the investigator what they want to hear even if it’s not conscious. Just getting attention or any treatment will help people feel better. I’ll give an example of a false placebo effect. I developed asthma after working in construction for 13 years, breathing a lot of particulate matter and getting a fungus infection in my lungs on my last job. I quit construction, went to school for massage, and started working in a chiropractor’s office. At a point, the asthma flared up. I happened to mention it to the chiropractor after about 2 weeks and he gave me a homeopathic remedy. I know homeopathy is nonsense, it’s just water or alcohol or sugar pills, but I took it to placate him. Lo and behold, two days later the asthma cleared up. Placebo effect? That’s what I assumed. However, that was the last time it ever worked. What I eventually learned was that my asthma tended to flare up in the spring and the fall for 2-3 weeks. What had happened was I coincidentally took the remedy just before it was going to resolve on its own. This is one of many reasons why anecdotal evidence - it worked for me! - is unreliable.

You can’t control for placebo effect or expectations with cuddling because there’s no way to have sham cuddling and I can’t think of a good thing to compare it to. Maybe one could compare it to sitting near another person and somehow being the recipient of focused attention without physical contact.

We do know that humans, other mammals, and birds respond positively to welcome touch. Primates spend about 30% of their waking time either grooming each other or sitting next to each other. The rabbits at the shelter who are housed with another rabbit - bonded pairs or littermates - spend a lot of time in contact with each other. We’re made to cuddle. In many cultures, kids all sleep together, families sleep together, and in many cultures people have a lot more physical contact with each other.

Cuddling is complex. It is only relaxing when we do it with someone with whom we feel comfortable. When we’re not comfortable with the other cuddler it is stressful.

It would be interesting to know about the physiological effects but one thing we do know - good cuddling makes most people feel good. We don’t need blood tests to know that.

Babichev

@Nature_Lover_ - I’m confused. Were the two groups given the same milkshake and told one was nutritional and the other was junk? Then I understand. Expectation can have huge impacts on everything. How the investigator dresses can have an effect on how effective a patient perceives a treatment. Really, the study of this is fascinating.

There was a study of people with asthma: one group was given real inhalers and one was given fake inhalers. Both groups said they felt better but only the group with real inhalers showed improved respiratory function. You can die from asthma. Thinking you’re better when you are not can be hazardous to your health.