Gone Girl

beaubliss

I have a sense that this topic could be a mega thread. It's big. It's disconcerting. It's prevalent.

I've noticed an increasing number of popular cuddle pros deactivating their accounts, many of whom are on my favorites list. And I know several others who are close to it. This isn't a typical "retiring"; this is a bold, definite deactivation. One of my most regular pros recently told me that 4 out of 5 new client sessions are with guys who want her to take her clothes off. 80%. Big number. Close to the amount of times Aces beats Kings in poker.

Don't misunderstand me; these aren't near-rapes, or even physically aggressive situations, but simply unconscious energetic misbehavior, filled with presumptions regarding service, as well as a sprinkling of at least disrespect, if not out and out misogyny.

Rules do not end this behavior, no matter how a profile reads, or how stringent the rules are that CC expresses. We need a cultural seismic shift, and there are no easy answers. I just thought that if it were brought up in a forum, with both clients and pros able to share ideas and stories, we as a community could become more conscious, communicative, and understanding.

I don't want to name specific pros, but one who recently deactivated traveled to many cities, had a profile page worthy of an artistic award, including nearly 100 karma filled with appreciation.....and she finally decided she had enough. She shared with me one situation that was horrific, with someone who had plenty of approving karma. My sense was that he purposely scheduled sessions with well-known pros to receive karma, then could be out of line in a session where trust was assumed. Now granted, the pro I am speaking of may suffer a bit from caretaker syndrome, as many do, where an environment of service, trust, and compassion is created quickly and lovingly. Such wonderful humans unfortunately become constant targets.

So I have been recommending to new pros to vet quite carefully, perhaps have a quick video or audio call, maybe even a public meet first. Make sure they have karma. Go to the providers page to see what they wrote in gratitude of the session they had. And finally, reach out to your fellow pro to see if she might spare a minute or two on the phone to describe more candidly her experience with the client. I really think that if the community of pros responded to one another actively in this way, much fewer untoward situations would be experienced.

Love to hear ideas, stories, and plain old-fashioned dialogue on this complex issue

cde123

I heard a similar story recently and it radically changed my opinion on clients with good karma. When I first joined the site, I was impressed by long karma lists. Now, I read between the lines to understand whether each karma is a "he paid me" rubber stamp from a pro, or a legitimate endorsement of a person's compatible cuddle style.

It's quite sad that established and reputable members will take advantage of others. I don't know who this person was, but I hope they were reported and banned.

Melancholy

I've seen countless threads like this in the 4 years or so I've been on this site.
But creepy men who push boundaries isn't unusual on other sites too. I was talking to a cuddle enthuiast recently who told me about some of her horrendous tinder dates. What's worse is that on tinder there's no karma at all! At least on this site there is some karma.
I have recommended this site to one pro cuddler who joined because of me telling her about it, and another cuddle enthusiast. Both from other parts of the country. One of them told me that she has someone pushing boundaries almost VERY single time she cuddles. I asked if she's reporting them or giving them bad karma and she hasn't been doing that because once she did and they wanted his side of the story and it became a mess...and the other times she just doesn't want to get into fights with these guys. She also was confused because these guys had several positive karma from other women.

beaubliss

Wow @Melancholy! You bring up an excellent point! How often we leave karma, both as clients and pros, that only speak a partial truth is alarming. As much as I love and respect the karma system on CC, I also experience its limitations. It's so hard to leave something that's critical without inviting a sometimes aggressive defense. That's why I am suggesting that pros become more accustomed to speaking with one another privately and candidly to express a more accurate review. The karma system at least conveys precisely who has seen each other, thus allowing communication about known clients/pros.

It also works for clients. I've had guys reach out to me about someone I've reviewed to get more details, and I've graciously accommodated that communication. Though I am very discreet, and I truly only offer karma to those I really enjoy, more can be said, especially in how enthusiastically I can recommend, and for whom. Often when we leave karma, it's general, for everyone to read; when we speak, we can be more specific, for example, letting the inquirer know that the depth of the conversation reached true intimacy, and don't hold back broaching philosophical topics. Or, conversely, the pro was so sensitive to discussing anything of a personal nature, it would be best to focus mostly on the excellence of her touch.

xandriarain

The problem is you have pros with no training or experience who sign up on this site thinking it will be easy money, and you have clients who want non-platonic services in a country where sex work is illegal. You have to have rock-solid boundaries and communication skills to survive in this work and not either get completely burnt out from unwanted sexual energy or get groomed into being a sex worker.

My sense was that he purposely scheduled sessions with well-known pros to receive karma, then could be out of line in a session where trust was assumed

This has definitely happened to me. I will sometimes get clients who will only book me once, and we will write each other karma because they respected me, and a few weeks or months later, they are banned.

I often feel like I am the introductory cuddler for many people because I am a safe option, but they want to try someone who will go beyond the platonic boundaries. I have had plenty of clients even admit to me they went and saw someone else who was "not as professional as me."

beaubliss

You make many interesting points, Xandriarain.....first, "pros" with no training/experience trying to make easy money, yes. They are called "pros" simply because the site approves them to charge, distinct from non-pros who only want a cuddle partner. And of course experience of doing this for awhile guarantees literally nothing about quality. Perhaps some affectionate partners have mentioned how well they cuddle? Or they have found receptivity from some clients regarding their touch, and now they implement actively in sessions?

OR, clients have been silent in karma, not bringing in anything critical, for fear of either retribution, or being unkind? I certainly have been guilty of this.....only providing karma to the best of my cuddlers, afraid to contribute to the mediocre. It's one of the problems with the karma system; though I generally really like it, feeling like it can add to the safety for both pros and clients, it lacks the truly critical. The only negative bits I read are no-shows/scheduling details, not the mediocre skill set. Perhaps I'll be brave enough to write something!?! For that's the only way for potential clients to know about the difference between the truly skilled and the ones just trying to earn some $$$ by providing touch to the lonely.

xelda

Yes, it's a huge problem. Not just on this site, but everywhere. Not just for pros, but especially for pros because of the entitlement that goes along with paying for something. The promising thing about this site, is that it is explicitly and purposefully intended to be platonic and non-sexual, which gives us a community of support to set boundaries and have at least some degree of consequence. Everywhere else it feels like men are constantly angling toward sex from the get go. I rarely, if ever, participate anywhere else online. It's exhausting.

One of the things that contributes to the problem is the amount of minimizing and dismissing that happens around it. @beaubliss mentions 80%, another recent post says 2 of her first 4 clients crossed or pushed boundaries. Yet I often see comments like "a few bad apples ruins it for everyone" and "how easy it is for women to get as much cuddles as they want here". They don't see the emotional, spiritual and physical cost that goes along with it.

Maybe because men's worst fears or experiences circle around being rejected or humiliated, they somehow distort being sexually pursued akin to winning the lottery! So they just can't relate. Except they could... if they would look a little deeper as to why most refuse to cuddle other men. The reality is that unwanted sexual attention is repulsive... whether it's from the wrong person, wrong gender, wrong time, wrong place, wrong anything... even the idea of it, let alone the potential or reality of it. My theory is that one of the reasons most men won't cuddle other men is that they don't want to risk experiencing any kind of sexual energy.

I don't know the solution. I try to make posts like this to help give voice to it, in particular to supporting the professionals who are trying to earn a living here. I try to write in a way that people will hear it, which means tempering my seething rage over it. Ultimately, I don't think the solution lies with the women. So, thank you @beaubliss for being a man who sees the problem and is ringing the alarm bell, wanting to make a difference.

Disclaimers:
1. No, not all men.
2. Yes, men get sexually harassed too.
But can we please acknowledge that we don't see countless threads of men talking about it happening to them, feeling frustrated and helpless at how it continues despite all the measures they take to try to prevent it... because it disproportionately happens to women at the hands of men.

Sheena123

@xelda 👏👏👏 so true. I’ve always been so tired of certain men on this platform hijacking threads made by others discussing the constant sexual harassment towards women. They overtake the thread saying “not all men”, “As a man, I don’t act like that therefore you are wrong”, “I doubt it’s that bad”…. I think we all know by now I’ve been on the frontline of these battles far too many times… I’m so tired of these particular men invalidating our experiences.

You hardly ever see a man create a thread discussing mens mental health. The only time they want to talk about it is smack dab in the middle of threads talking about women being harmed…. If they would just close their mouths, open their ears and actually listen. But they only “listen” for their spot to jump in and talk. Just actually listen. There are thousands of women just on this site alone that have come forward multiple times to simply articulate their pain. Men, please, just listen. Don’t join in the conversation to simply say:

“well, men get hurt too”. We never said you didn’t.

“Men are tired of being rejected” certainly doesn’t seem as bad as being raped or sexually assaulted. Surely that’s something we can agree on, right?

“Men can’t even talk with women anymore because we’re scared of being falsely accused” check the statistics on false accusations. It’s way too small a number that you should worry about it, especially when we’re discussing the extremely high statistics of women getting sexually assaulted. One thing happens 2% of the time while the other thing happens about 80% of the time.

I’ve said this before but I’ll say it here again since Xelda amazingly brought it up. Maybe a lot of men don’t see sexual advances as something horrible because it’s something they would gladly welcome from a woman. Literally every single woman I’ve ever known and has been in my life has been sexually assaulted, raped and or catcalled and treated like pieces of meat. None of them liked these horrible experiences.

Out of all the men in my life, I came across 2 or 3 men that have been sexually harassed and or assaulted at the hands of a woman. All of them said to some degree or another that “it sucked but it’s no big deal….” And every man outside of that said “women can’t rape men” or they’ve said they would gladly welcome catcalling or sexual advances from a woman.

As a woman, we just want validation and men to truly understand what we go through. We aren’t trying to start a fight. We aren’t trying to say that men are trash. There are amazing men out there, however, women deal with a higher amount of men that treat us like a walking hole put on this earth to solely please men. We are tired… we just want it to stop but the more a lot of you men (and certain women) jump in to negate everything we said, invalidates our experiences. Shutting us up won’t help. This discussion needs to keep happening until all women are safe… just care. Be a human and just care. Not argue our experiences….

xelda

@Sheena123 👏 💖
I honestly don't know how some of you keep up your spirits, kindness and positive outlook doing this work. I've had to take breaks from dating and/or cuddling to shake it off.

Sheena123

@xelda I know 😫 trust me, I’ve had moments where I was ready to say forget it. I got to a point where I was just so tired of the sexual advances and thought, “is there any person on here for the right reasons?!” And then suddenly, I get one amazing cuddler that books me, doesn’t hit on me, snuggles superbly and treats me respectfully and I’m back in the game lol they’re out there but god… they are far and few between