Non-platonic cuddling

I’ve had a few recent cuddlers who have shared stories of pros, even well-established, respectable pros, offering non-platonic services. It seems as if it’s more the norm for sessions to be at least somewhat sexual than it is for sessions to be fully platonic. Is this the case? I can’t tell if these cuddlers are giving this impression to try to push me to do more, or if this is truly the case.

If you’re a client, what percentage of the pros you’ve met have offered extras? Some people have said it’s as low as 30% and others have said 90%.

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Comments

  • There are indeed professionals who do this. It's never happened to me, but things are slightly different here in the UK.

    There are many disreputable clients who lie about what other professionals have done/offer to try and coerce professionals into breaking the terms of service.

    Don't ask "who was it?", they won't tell you. But you could try saying "Was it [imaginery professional name]?" and they might say, "No, it was X". You can then Report them both.

  • Moved to Professional Cuddling

  • The ones i've made appointments with (3), none. i've had enthusiast or pre certified pros try.

  • I’ve been offered full on sex from one pro and a menú from another that included my choice of fully clothed, underwear only or naked cuddling. And this was prior to even meeting. I can only imagine what some pros might offer in person and behind closed doors.
    So yes, it happens.

  • It's rampant. There's guys who lie to see if you will loosen your rules but there are just as many pros who are offering "off the menu" options.

    This is why thorough screening is so crucial and you can't trust karma.

  • If you’re a client, what percentage of the pros you’ve met have offered extras?

    I only occasionally get clear, unambiguous offers for extras. However, based on my experiences and conversations with others I feel pretty sure that the majority of pros are sometimes sexual during cuddle sessions. Doesn't mean they're all secretly escorts, they may do lots of platonic sessions, but they will opportunistically make a session sexual in the right circumstances.

    I find it a little sad. Even here, in a community nominally dedicated to nonsexual connections, under the surface it's almost as obsessed with sex as the world at large. But so it goes I guess.

  • From what I understand, it also depends somewhat on the area. Miami is apparently pretty bad and unfortunately the Bay Area has some bad apples as well I hear.

  • @Rezz is a 💯 right.

    Regardless of certain individuals who do offer these things, more often is the client pushing an agenda that isn't actually happening -- karma is good, yes....but people are opportunists, save room for your boundaries and that's it.

    Fuck the rest. 😘

  • I only occasionally get clear, unambiguous offers for extras. However, based on my experiences and conversations with others I feel pretty sure that the majority of pros are sometimes sexual during cuddle sessions.

    @CuddleWho , I'm not sure I would agree that it's a majority, but I bet it's close to 50%. There's a couple things at play here: one, who knows what happens on a bed or couch behind closed doors between two consenting adults. If neither of them talks about it, no one can ever know.

    Secondly, if it NEVER happened, it wouldn't be a point of discussion. I make this same point when discussing massage therapy too. If a "happy ending" massage never occurred, guys wouldn't discuss them on Internet message boards. I mean there aren't boards talking about how to get your dentist, or your plumber, or your mechanic to give you a happy ending, because none of those are within the realm of possibility.

    However, I think it does occasionally happen with both cuddlers and massage therapists, and that's why it's still a point of discussion.

  • edited March 2023

    @WiserGuy3000

    I'm not sure I would agree that it's a majority, but I bet it's close to 50%.

    Well, you might be right. I can't know for sure. But I can say that the longer I've been on the site the more I feel sex work really is rampant. There've been many times when I thought of someone "Alright, well clearly this is really a platonic cuddler who doesn't offer sexual services," only to later learn that in fact sex work is her bread and butter.

    Obviously we will never know the real percentage, but if the god of CuddleComfort appeared one day and revealed that, say, 90% of pro cuddlers are sex workers, I would not be surprised in the slightest.

  • edited March 2023

    It’s so disheartening learning how common sex work is on here. I got to a point a few days ago, after learning of an established pro doing non-platonic stuff, where I seriously considered just giving up pro cuddling. If sex work is the norm here and is expected of pros, I don’t want to be involved in this kind of work. There’s such a stigma with cuddling even when it is fully platonic…but if most pros are undercover sex workers, then I really don’t want to be associated with this profession. I’m just hoping it’s not as common as some of the men I’ve met with have told me it is. I had one client who was testing boundaries tell me after I said no to his requests that while he respects how strong-willed I am, I may have a harder time maintaining clients if I’m not willing to do more. It could’ve been a manipulation tactic or it could’ve been him just genuinely warning me that this is the name of the game.

  • As long as we report the bad eggs and maintain our boundaries, eventually (hopefully), cuddling will have a positive platonic name to itself. It’s still so niche so we just have to keep our morals and say no (and report).

  • @cuddlezandhugz sex work may be common, but it isn't the norm. And it's much more common in the USA than it is in other countries, because of the sex work laws you have here. It's much less of a problem here in the UK.

    Most of the sex workers are creating a portfolio career. In other words they are perfectly happy to offer platonic sessions.

    Please stay. We need you.

  • I urge people to be careful about how they speak about sex work and sex workers even those who mix services with platonic cuddling. Increasing the stigma against SW does not help the platonic cuddling community, it makes it even more difficult to have clear-cut boundaries.

    Whatever your personal feelings are, stick to speaking of your own boundaries and the facts. Watch out for speaking in generalities and speaking for communities that you are not a part of - especially since no one community is a monolith either.

    If you do not wish to participate in SW, then don't. Make hard boundaries and keep them. Vet carefully. Stick to your guns and don't waffle, but don't put down others in doing so. You don't know what lies are being used to try to manipulate you, what statements are being exaggerated, so stick to what you do know - your experiences, your boundaries, and the site TOS.

    When speaking about non-platonic services being offered through this site, try to speak in terms of local legality and site TOS, what you would or wouldn't do - not what you think the community as a whole may or may not be doing because you only see one tiny slice of the community. And make sure to report any violations that you know of by direct experience, not hearsay or gossip.

    There will probably always be people on both sides of the pro/client dynamic misusing the site - that is the nature of a tool, it can be used or misused depending on the person utilising it. But hopefully by not perpetuating stigma and gossip in our corner we can hopefully get regulations put in place for both legal SW and professional cuddling to reduce risks all the way around.

  • I've said this all before, but yes, It absolutely happens. I've actually lost track of how many have offered/asked for more. I used to be a pro, but am just an enthusiast currently. I may try again. Mostly the requests have come from pros though. I've even been sexually assaulted which is weird cause as a guy you wouldn't think that would happen. Women have grabbed my hand and tried to place it in inappropriate places. One lady tried to extort me...I showed up after a two hour drive and she stripped naked and demanded more money. Another pro that I had seen many times locally asked me to prepay and then ghosted me and deactivated her account, and another pro go very inappropriate random facts and asked leading questions...after our session was over and we had gone our separate ways, she sent me a menu of other services she offered. Most of these women have been banned now or deleted their own profiles and I didn't care to remember their profile names as I always ask their real name. Its a crazy world...we just all need to find a way to navigate it.

  • @Originalirish it's not just you. Men being sexually assaulted by women (or intimidated at a level that may not qualify as assault) is not nearly as unusual as you would hope. It's a serious problem in the cuddle world, although we don't seem to talk about it much.

  • @cuddlefaery well said, thank you. It's important to not demonize sex workers (or their clients) while still recognizing that CC is not the place for those interactions. But we can (and should) still be respectful about it.

  • edited March 2023

    I'll say something that may (or may not) be a little bit of reassurance for those who are dismayed at the prevalence of sex work among pro cuddlers.

    I think some of this prevalence is not due to people specifically seeing pro cuddling as an outlet for sex work... I think partly it's just a side effect of the extraordinary commonness of sex work among young women in general nowadays. Between Onlyfans, other forms of online selling, escorting, sugaring, stripping, etc, it is just unbelievable how many women today do sex work of one form or another.

    20 years ago it might have been really shocking to discover that, say, a random middle class college girl was a sex worker. Now, for better or worse, it's fairly typical, and often discussed pretty openly on social media.

    So, yeah, lots of pro cuddlers are sex workers, but so are lots of college students, and retail workers, etc.

  • @CuddleWho I think that's right.

    @cuddlefaery quite right. The policy of the site, and I believe the consensus on the forum, is that we wish sex workers well. Just not here. Stigmatising or demonising sex workers (or indeed anybody) is likely to earn you a warning from the mods, quite rightly in my view. There are professional cuddlers and enthusiasts who are former sex workers ... but then I suspect that's true of most forums.

  • I think the reason it bothers me that it seems that there are so many sex workers here is not because I judge those who do sex work (I definitely think it should be legal in the US) but more that I’m worried many clients here expect non-platonic services and come to CC primarily to get sexual satisfaction. Thankfully, I’ve had many clients who did not push or test boundaries, but I’ve also had many who have tried to get me to do more, as though it was expected of me simply because I’m on this site. I’m hoping that those are just the few bad apples though.

  • @cuddlezandhugz you're exactly right. It's a matter of expectations. Unfortunately, because sexwork is illegal in most of the US, both clients and providers have to use subterfuge to find these services. Sometimes, sexworkers and clients use what I'll call "sexwork adjacent" fields to find what they're looking for. I'll put both cuddling and massage therapy into this adjacent category for a couple of reasons. First, both services require two adults to be alone together behind a closed door (and in the case of cuddling, often on a bed). Secondly, it involves a lot of bodily contact, including at least some skin-to-skin. Massage therapy also has the characteristic that the client removes most or all of their clothing.

    So again, it isn't surprising to find sexworkers among the cuddlers here (and clients looking for them), much more than on a platform advertising carpentry or math tutoring or travel planning. In a perfect world, no cuddler would ever be pressured to do more than platonic, and no cuddling client would ever be offered anything "extra." Unfortunately, that's not where we are.

  • edited March 2023

    @WiserGuy3000

    Unfortunately, because sexwork is illegal in most of the US, both clients and providers have to use subterfuge to find these services.

    This is clearly part of it but I don’t think it’s the whole thing, and I don’t think legalization would eliminate this.

    Only some forms of sex work, like prostitution, are illegal. Others, like pornography, are mostly legal. And yet even in the legal forms, practitioners often use sneaky methods to get clients. For instance, most straight men on dating apps have probably had the experience of matching with a woman you thought was interested in a date, but after some conversation she tells you to subscribe to her OnlyFans. Nothing illegal about selling OF content, but they still feel the need to trick people into it.

    Essentially I think “men who are looking for a non-sexwork connection with a woman but who can be tempted into paying for something sexual after you establish rapport with them” seems to be a lucrative demographic.

  • edited March 2023

    1) sex workers, of any type, aren't nearly as common as you think they are, they're just more visible and vocal now thanks to social media and advocacy. It's the same logical fallacy that makes people think that "everyone is becoming gay/trans" or "there's an explosion of ADHD/autism" when research shows the numbers have stayed relatively consistent over long periods of time. (Fun fact: all of those sit around 2-4% of the world population, depending on the source you use)

    2) the reason SWers who use OF or sites push advertising through "tricking" is it's not nearly as lucrative as people are led to believe for 99% of the users. OF does not advertise for creators, they have to self advertise, and yet OF still takes a hefty percentage. The most common forms of free advertising are via Reddit and social media sites, but the latter have **heavy*** restrictions on what can be posted without getting your account banned. So they turn to messaging, which is slightly less regulated. If you know what to look for, you can pretty easily spot SW content creator profiles even before they message you - there's a lot of common practices in play because they generally work.

    (Source: my own experience having an OF account, but the sheer amount of work advertising and trying to get visitors to subscribe, subscribers to resubscribe, etc. with the competition against the top 3% who actually make decent money? Not worth it. Especially since it was like my 3rd creative side gig. If you think there's resistance against professional cuddler pricing, you should see what SWers deal with. Seriously.)

  • @cuddlefaery

    sex workers, of any type, aren't nearly as common as you think they are, they're just more visible and vocal now thanks to social media and advocacy

    This statement does not reflect reality. I don't think sex workers are common because I see their advocacy online; I think they're common because I meet them, constantly, all over the place. The first 3 cuddlers I met off this site were all sex workers (along with dozens since). Most women in their 20s I meet outside of my work turn out to have done sex work. If it's not common, why do I keep meeting them over and over and over again? Are you really saying the incredible rise of OnlyFans just... didn't happen? Or what?

    the reason SWers who use OF or sites push advertising through "tricking" is it's not nearly as lucrative as people are led to believe for 99% of the users

    I knew a guy with a lawnscaping business that didn't make much money. But somehow he never tried to trick people into his services.

  • edited March 2023

    @CuddleWho I'm sorry, but anecdotal evidence does not trump actual research. If most women you meet have have done sex work, that is due to the social circles you interact with and your location, it does not reflect national and international society as a whole where sex work is still uncommon.

    The footnotes from this paper are a great rabbit hole to go down if this is a topic of interest: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353236967_Revolutionising_digital_sex_work_an_analysis_of_the_impact_of_OnlyFans_on_sex_workers

    Breakdown of the most recent business-related OF statistics: https://thesmallbusinessblog.net/onlyfans-statistics/

    And my point re: the term "tricking" is that it's no more using tricks than any other manipulative advertising tactics - but somehow women entrepreneurs are far more maligned for such practices than larger businesses or men. With larger businesses we shrug our shoulders and go, "oh well, that's just how business/capitalism works". With women entrepreneurs using such advertising for themselves, whether sex workers or not, they are demonized as preying upon men, having to resort to "tricks" rather than using standard advertising practices, somehow less legitimate than other businesses that use the very same advertising.

    So sure, your landscaping guy may not use those advertising practices, but then he probably does not have to to make a profit, and if he did he would not be called a scammer or somehow less than legitimate for doing so. In fact, he'd probably be praised as a shrewd businessman for utilizing better advertising and increasing his customer base.

  • edited March 2023

    @cuddlefaery I skimmed your first link (it's 24 pages...) and read the second one. As far as I can tell, not one word of either of them supports your claim that sex work is uncommon. If anything they're saying the opposite. I mean one of the main points/assumptions behind both links is how popular and widely used OnlyFans is... right?

    OnlyFans is seen as one of the fastest-growing social media platforms today.

    So one of the fastest growing social media platforms is primarily used for sex work... But sex workers are rare?

    Ditto many other sentences talking about the skyrocketing popularity of OnlyFans.

    You're coming onto a thread where people are talking about all the sex workers they encounter, and you essentially post "Actually sex workers are uncommon. For instance, on the incredibly popular social media platform for sex workers where I used to be a sex worker, the market is so saturated with sex workers that it's hard to make money." Do you see how this isn't adding up?

  • @cuddlefaery
    Sex workers and their clientele are not rare here on CC. Period. The mods have said it themselves. They ban these accounts as quickly as they can , but there are plenty that sign up daily or are flying under the radar, for now.

    SWs are not the issue, the fact they are here acting as a detriment to the site is.

  • @cuddlefaery

    With larger businesses we shrug our shoulders and go, "oh well, that's just how business/capitalism works".

    This is not true. Many practices of the advertising and big business world are highly criticized.

    With women entrepreneurs using such advertising for themselves, whether sex workers or not, they are demonized as preying upon men

    Pretending to be interested in a legitimate relationship with me so that you can manipulate me into buying your content is scummy and dishonest and deserves to be demonized. Please stop defending people just because they are women. Men can be shitty and dishonest. Women can be shitty and dishonest. Each deserves to be called out.

  • @cuddlefaery

    And my point re: the term "tricking" is that it's no more using tricks than any other manipulative advertising tactics

    That's simply not true. No large business pretends to be interested in a romantic relationship with me in order to emotionally blackmail or manipulate me. The first couple of times it happened it was really quite painful and dispiriting. I regard it as one of the primary risks I'm exposed to when communicating with women online.

    Many practices of the advertising and big business world are highly criticized.

    They are also highly regulated: they break the rules, they get fined.

    but then he probably does not have to to make a profit

    Why on earth would the landscaper guy not have to make a profit?

  • @CuddleWho Inclined to agree. It doesn't seem any one group has sh*tty and dishonest all tied up. That was so funny btw.

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