@sunnysideup I appreciate your input. I'm still missing pieces of the jigsaw puzzle, so, no. But, nevertheless, this topic seems too tainted by emotion now to be continued in a dispassionate manner.
I'd only like to reemphasize that I do not harbor any dislike for anyone involved in the discussion.
I'm out.
@TxTom Hopefully atleast one or two pieces of the puzzle were pointed out. I'm sorry I couldn't explain any further
In a utopia , we'd be discussing and debating over a pit fire while someone grills some food vs. doing this over a screen. also, of course cuddling is involved and like s'mores and other snacks that are for lactose intolerant folks will be available too.
@SunsetSnuggles and our exes will be texting us all night wanting us back while we ignore them and have a good time . lol
Perfect.
Utopia? Step one: reduce the human population to about 5-10% of it's current levels.
I have no idea how to acceptably go about doing that, so I'm not going to give ANY suggestions how to accomplish it.
The experiments made on mouse and rat utopias represent a warning that perhaps utopia is not a good aim. The results of those experiments ended with the complete death of the utopian colonies. So, hopefully our human experiment maintains sufficient challenges and disappointments to avoid utopia and it's dangers.
The golden rule
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I just find it interesting that, the best way to demonstrate why a utopia could never exist is to have a conversation about whether or not it could exist. (Read back through the thread.) Maybe, the idea is enough. To tell the people, this is what we are striving for and never getting there, like a hamster on a wheel. People don't need a utopia. They just need hope.
Right! @zerolight40 Ironic how true your comment is! Anytime you ask any group of people to agree on something that could, in theory, be a positive thing....human nature kicks in the door and illustrates exactly why it could never happen 😜🤷♀️
But in all honesty, people weren't made to live in a Utopia ...our different viewpoints and opinions make it so we are always growing and learning (usually painfully, but that's how we learn the most!). And overall, that's it own positive thing to keep the species going. In a Utopia, I think the species would die out in a few generations, negating the rest of human existence.
Hahaha 🤣 @Jubal is even more team Thanos than Thanos is!
@RedFox16
Heh, my wife gets angry with me when I say that I felt bad for Thanos at the moment he saw the stones on Tony's suit. He'd so long been in pursuit of this one goal - however insane, evil and misguided it was - and come so close to victory, only to have it snatched away at the last possible second.
In a Utopia, I think the species would die out in a few generations, negating the rest of human existence.
Correct. Normal conditions can be forcibly altered to achieve a safe "utopia" that eventually results in the destruction of the very thing that is attempted to be protected.
Things are the way they are through eons long natural processes; processes established long before the dawn of mankind.
Anybody that reads these forums knows that a utopia will never happen
@RedFox16 - You made an interesting point there about the species dying out. One other outcome is that it devolves back into warring factions. I suppose it's the nature of violence in humans, the nature of the power struggle, to ebb and flow in and out of violence in this way. Either option could end in our destruction though.
Yeah, poor Thanos....I mean, those stones are really pretty and shiny! I would be a little bummed out too if I put in all that effort and got foiled 🥺 💎
And referring to human nature vs Utopia.... I was really talking about the human "need" to struggle on a smaller basis, like in daily life. Since that's were we actually do all of our genuine learning and growing as humans!
Think about the last significant lesson you learned. Was it because you succeeded the very first time in an accomplishment (without having to sit through long classes beforehand either)? Or after you tried hard and then failed.... and tried again multiple times....each time learning a little more and gaining more perseverance and perspective? Think about all the things you've learned through your life and would you rather be the person you used to be or the person you are now with all the things you've learned? 📖📚🤓
In order to learn and grow as a species, we need to struggle and we all need to be able to be different in order to have new ideas and invent news things. Some funny examples of never having to struggle (or even do anything) are the movies Idiocracy or even Wall-E 😁
I also do think war and large scale violence is one thing that happens when humans don't have enough "small" scale struggles and it eventually boils over (along with other contributing factors, of course!). 🫣
NOT AT ALL advocating for people to be sh***y to each other or excusing others that hurt or victimize their fellow humans. NOT even saying everyone should have locusts or health problems thrust upon them simply to learn and grow. Just that whatever happens in life....we seem to need a certain amount in order to thrive and grow and not get lazy.
😎😎😎
Utopia would be not forcing my utopia on other people.
@Alan2018 that was concise, wise, and imo, profound.