I'm not referring to any comments made by Swift's boyfriend's teammate.
Women certainly can be mothers and have a career. I encourage that idea with my own kid.
What I was referring to was, for quite a while on these forums, there have been sarcastic comments made about women's "magic tummies," or equating being seen pregnant to being featured in a wildlife documentary... very demeaning comments about a woman's awesome ability of to create life.
What is a mess, natickben, is how women's subservience to men in now being forced in certain fields today.
Many women do value being wives and mothers
True there are, as for myself I just didn't value the "wife" part, at least my treatment as a wife wasn't a valuable experience.😄
Though I do very much value the mother part in the end, though I can't say the same about my ex-husband finding value as a father.😏
I chose poorly. I chose foolishly. I married foolishly and poorly. I accept that. 😁
How some people seem to harbor such a seething hostility towards motherhood.
@TxTom I agree, especially towards single motherhood. I learned that I was a single mother while I was still married.😁 Lol! I recall reading elsewhere that someone stated that "single mothers are the reason that men are turning out to be weak and emasculated"...Lol!😆 😆😆😆 As if mothers are choosing to raise and care for their children solo...😆 Sure there are some single mothers who are making that choice, yes I agree on that.👍However there are many mothers who had "the SINGLE MOTHER title" thrust upon them without even being asked. My mother's title was thrust upon her and so was mine.😊
I agree, @Katota . It's infinitely better for all when the family remains a team effort. Men and women are supposed to compliment each other. Much too often, weak, unmasculine men abandon the family leaving the mother to pick up all the slack.
If you got to NFL Shop.com. and search Top Sellers, Harrison Butker's NFL jersey ($129.99) is on the front page for Women's and Men's, Most Popular Jersey. A Kicker! So, yes, while the usuals on this board moan and gripe about whatever -ism they think they heard, Butker's message does have a an audience.
@Midnight01 It's true, he does have an audience. I guess misogynists like to have their misogyny validated by a famous person.
@Midnight01 I don't follow sports at all, so I never heard of Harrison Butker before yesterday. I quickly perused a transcript of his speech. He was full of appreciation for his wife, Isabella, for whom her loving dedication to their children and her tremendous sacrifice for the family. I understand that feeling completely.
There was no misogynism in his speech, only heartfelt love for his family and hope that others will experience the same joy in their lives.
Some people just can't stand when other people are living happy, fulfilling lives. It drives them absolutely crazy. How sad.
ChatGPT agrees with @TxTom : The speech you provided would not typically be classified as misogynistic. Misogyny refers to the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women. The speech does emphasize traditional gender roles, particularly in the section addressed to women, where it suggests that women's primary fulfillment comes from marriage and motherhood. This perspective is reflective of certain traditional Catholic values rather than an expression of hatred or contempt towards women.
However, the speech does imply that women might find greater satisfaction in traditional roles rather than pursuing careers, which some may find limiting or out of touch with contemporary views on gender equality. This perspective can be seen as reinforcing stereotypical gender roles, but it does not inherently constitute misogyny. Misogyny involves a much more explicit disdain or prejudice against women.
Therefore, while the speech might be critiqued for its traditional views on gender roles, it would not be accurate to label it as misogynist based on the content provided.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLgCTXEd/
@pmvines
That’s a really good video. I think it gives a great model of how healthy masculinity looks in a relationship with a woman. Basically using strengths and talents to support the woman in the relationship and put in that emotional labor to make the partnership work.
Gotta love men telling women what misogyny is, with nothing more than an AI program's analysis of a speech.
Hint: "Traditional views on gender roles" (eg, women should be at home taking care of the house and making babies) tend to be misogynistic.
I just think it's funny that this big pro-manhood speech is being given by the one player on the team who can't ever get hit.
@WriterGF Thanks, that made me laugh.
Misogyny is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls.
One common example of misogyny today is reducing the whole experience of what it is to be a woman to simply wearing make-up, feminine clothes, and growing long hair.
What a dehumanizing act of objectifying.
I teach rhetoric and composition, and there is a reason chatGPT always fails my classes
Oh I'm glad this randomly popped up on my feed when I randomly signed in. I heard this term today and I despise it because I think it makes a blanket assumption that all men who are masculine are "toxic". It's simply not true. Men are supposed to be masculine and women are supposed to be "feminine" by definition. Let's not conflate certain toxic behaviors by certain men with masculinity or certain toxic behaviors by certain women with femininity.
@Rocket_Man I felt the same way when I first heard the term, but I came to realize that a lot of people who use it aren't making blanket statements about men or women. There probably some who DO mean it that way, but I know that others are just saying that masculinity or femininity can be expressed in a toxic way by some men or women.
I believe the attack on negative systemic traits perpetuated by men is not an attack on individual men or men as a whole, but on the institution of patriarchy. It's hard to support a system where a power imbalance and systemic inequality exists. I think the positive qualities of strength, independence, and righteousness/compassion can still exist while attacking traits that affect others negatively.
For some who are used to privileges and entitlement, equality feels like oppression - but its not, it's just spreading pieces of the pie for everyone.
Yes!
@JoyfulHeart 💯
@Rocket_Man
I heard this term today and I despise it because I think it makes a blanket assumption that all men who are masculine are "toxic". It's simply not true. Men are supposed to be masculine and women are supposed to be "feminine" by definition.
This is my take on this. It's not that a man who has "masculine" traits (whatever they may be) is automatically toxic. What's toxic is saying that ALL men HAVE to have certain traits just because they're men. This constantly makes men feel like they have to be a certain way that may or may not be fitting for them.
I don't believe anyone is "supposed" to be anything strictly based on what sex they were born. THAT is what I believe is toxic. I think it's completely fine to say that men TEND to NATURALLY be a certain way in certain areas. And for those men who feel great about having those traits, that is awesome. There's nothing toxic about them having those traits. But what's toxic is feeling like they and all other men HAVE to have certain traits simply because they are men.
You can argue that there are certain traits that are good or bad for any person to have. But I believe to say that certain good traits are only good for men or only good for women is limiting and keeps people from being their true selves and their best selves. I can't think of any trait that is positive in a man that can't also be positive in a woman, and vice versa.
None of this is about limiting people or saying anyone is wrong for being what they are. But it's about applying this same idea to all people, no matter what definition of masculinity or femininity that one uses.
@Will564 100% 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 putting genders in a bubble is the toxic part. My husbands boss said that my hubby was a wuss because he went for massages and pedicures with me. “It’s not manly…” and I’ve been told that I shouldn’t talk as much as I do, that I’m a loudmouth and it’s not ladylike… that’s putting us in bubbles. My husband can have as many pedicures as he wants. If he even decides to choose a coloured nail polish, go for it. I’m allowed to have as many opinions on things as I want. I was also told I’m not a proper woman because I don’t want kids…. No one in the last 8 years has ever said that to my husband…. Gender roles need to go away… forever….
@Sheena123
Very well said. I agree entirely. It's so refreshing to see people just being themselves and supporting each other for doing so.
Your post also made me think about how multi-faceted all of this, and it reminds me of some of the points in the blog post in my OP. There are SO many little details concerning people's behavior and preferences. Any one person has so many different combinations of all of these little things.
So when someone tries to come up with a universal definition of a gender, it kind of becomes like a version of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. If we took all of the definitions and details that everyone thought one gender was supposed to have, you'd get to the point that no one would be able to completely meet all of those expectations.
So if people feel pressured to meet those outside expectations, they no longer do what's true to them and right for them. Everyone has their own path to becoming their best version of themselves, and that best version shouldn't be limited based on their gender.
@Will564 also, if every single person adhered to some sad little rule of what each gender should be, everything would be so bland, boring and predictable!! No thanks to that lol
Welp. Gender roles aren't disappearing in my office anytime soon. The ladies always ask me to change the water bottle and when a strange man comes in the building they come looking for me.to deal with it.
I provide and protect for my immediate family and girlfriends (when I have one). I can do various other things but those are my top two responsibilities.
A relationship is whatever two (or more) people decide it to be. While observing the relationships of friends - they seem to go downhill when the man is making less money, the man is less masculine than his partner, or when they try to go 50/50. I'm sure there are success stories I just haven't personally witnessed them.
Whatever works, works. As long as it actually works and both (or all) parties are happy.
@chocobunny that’s it though! I’m always down with individuals to stick to whatever they feel comfortable with. What I don’t like is when people try to force that on everyone. Like how my only role in life as a woman is to be a mother and wife, that’s all. If I make money or focus on a career, I’m a horrible person. That’s not ok. And if you don’t want to change the water bottle or deal with strange men, you shouldnt have to simply because “you’re a man”. Now, if you WANT to do those things, then by all means. What isn’t right is if a person insults you or demeans you as a man simply because you say “no, I don’t want to be the one that has to change it all the time”…
I can at least tell you in my experience, that marriages with 50/50 partnership do indeed work. My husband and I have been together 8 years so far and we are so perfect within the household. He cooks, I do dishes. We share in laundry and tending to our kitties 🐱 and we do everything 50/50. And I have a few married friends close to me that live the 50/50 rule in a household and it’s perfect 👍🏻
But then there are people that live their lives with the certain gender roles and it works for them. That’s awesome. I just don’t like when they come into my lane to say that I’m doing it wrong because I don’t want kids or I have a job I’m devoted to… I don’t go to them saying “hey lady, forget your kids and get a job!” I don’t do that because I respect however a household is run as long as it’s agreeable for the whole family.
@deathwished lol eww
I stop worrying about that term. Gillette learned the hard way about attacking their core audience pushing social agendas/ engineering and lost $5 Billion dollars in sales. We got plenty of toxic femininity to go around in our society.
@BrionC I missed it. What did Gillette do that caused women to stop buying its products?
@deathwished @deathless You're trolling, right?
Of course there's no such thing as anything wrong w patriarchy, bc some men took the red pill which is loosely associated with a fictional concept from a 90s movie. lol The problems don't exist bc pple think they're in the matrix. lol Maybe try doing that with bills, gravity, and behavior at the workplace. The red pill 💊 will 100% work!
Trolls are dumb.