Who roots for the villain?

Jubal

In line with my previous thread about favorite movies (and prompted by @RedFox16 's comment on the utopic thread ), I was curious to know how many on here will root for (or sympathize with/identify with/etc) the villain in a movie? To me, a truly good villain is someone who could be any of us, but had something happen to twist his/her drive in life. A compelling villain drives the action onscreen, even when what we're seeing is the protagonists and their struggles. We should be able to sympathize to some extend with a good villain, something like "there but for the grace of God" type feelings.

A good example would be Khan Noonian Singh in the original Star Trek series and later in Star Trek 2 - he was moral by his own code, which in large part was to protect his people against everyone else (from his point of view). Later, he'd been driven insane by his banishment to a world which ended up being devastated by a stellar event, yet he survived and kept his crew alive against all odds until the USS Reliant showed up. He was brilliant, calculating, and a fearsome adversary, which of course made the plight of our heroes all the more captivating.

Jubal

Borrowing this from the other thread lol

CaptainChaos

Bear

Growing up Italian, I didn't root for the villains. I was in favor of criminals in some mob movies. Like goodfelllas.

Sopranos is probably a good example of this. Most people loved the criminal element. I did not watch it much. I use to work when it was on.

Villains are usually the more interesting characters, but if they win in the end, that can often mean the end of story, period. If Galactus eats the Earth (yes, I know he's not really considered a villain), or Darkseid conquers it, etc., etc., no more Earth, no more heroes, no more story.

TxTom

Yes, especially contemporary villains, because sometimes they actually aren't.

Vocalist100

I didn't root for him, but I could understand why in The Punisher he acted that way (and make no mistake, he is NOT a hero - maybe an anti-hero, but definitely not a hero).

JohnR1972

I wouldn’t go quite so far as to say “root for” but you are right, a “good movie” is often good because of a “good” villain. One of my all time favorites was Hans Gruber in the first Die Hard movie.

Alan Rickman accepted the role of Hans Gruber on the condition that he got to play the character the way HE envisioned the character should be played (quite different than the way the character was originally written). For example, all the other bad guys wore black turtleneck sweaters but Hans wore a business suit so, if necessary, he could blend in with the hostages.

A strong, smart, ruthless / dangerous bad guy is essential to a compelling movie. He (most villains are male) makes the hero of the story work hard to win. A weak villain means the hero didn’t have to grow or learn anything or struggle. Basically you can’t have an impressive hero without an impressive villain.

See, I clicked 'NO' because maybe, I'm a little bit of an idealist. But I have to agree with the 'good villain' concept some of you talk about here. The idea that a clever, ruthless and resourceful villain can make the hero work for their meal, so to speak. I'm thinking of the character played by Michael Douglas in the film 'Falling Down' for example.

I suppose some of the most interesting stories are those told from the point of view of the villain. Stories that explore why they are this way, what drives them. For this reason, 'Joker' was and excellent film. I should probably think of some from literature, but hay ho.

pmvines

I think villain worship is popular because there are two sides , being people who are themselves villainous and identity with them , and people who aren't villainous but consider them interesting and would like to live vicariously through them

JohnR1972

Just a bit of movie trivia, Bruce Willis was not the first choice to play John McClane, the hero in Die Hard. The role was initially offered to Sylvester Stallone who turned it down, then to Tom Cruise, Kurt Russell and I believe Nick Nolte. After all of them turned it down (for various reasons) a decision was made to offer the role to Bruce Willis who at that point in his career was much better known for light hearted Rom-Com roles. The rest is history.

TxTom

Speaking of Die Hard.

Sometimes during the holidays, I like to watch Home Alone up until the point that Kevin's mom is told by the airline desk agent that all flights are full. Then I pause the movie, put in Die Hard 2, after which I then resume Home Alone.

It makes for a helluva Christmas movie.

KnightlyCuddles

Almost universally I do NOT root for the villain but do understand that in movies, television, books, or life there is some appeal to the villain or “bad boy” persona. They step thru rules and follow their own creed. However, personally I never root for a villain that is pure evil, abusive to women, the elderly or animals.

Villains are crucial to story building and the conflict of good vs evil is paramount to having the audience becoming emotionally engaged in the story. There are too many great villains to count. Also, actors love to play a villain.

In the end however, IF evil always won would this be a world ‘most of us’ would want to live in?

IronicMaiden

If it's a good (as in well-done) villain, they'll have depth. You can understand their motivations, sympathize with them, and even root for them. Especially when the villain is created by the actions of the good guys, or the good guys don't seem so good after all.

For a good example of a show where you'll hate the hero and root for the villain, watch Dr. Horrible's Sing-A-Long Blog.

jr17

As long as they’re not a cringey and badly written villain in a movie. I root for them.

CallMeRowan

In movies such as the original Evil Dead, it's hard to root for a villain that is a supernatural entity bent on destruction. But for movies like Die Hard or Electro from The Amazing Spiderman, I gotta root for them. Especially in Electro's case.

Jubal

@CallMeRowan I know there's no hard & fast definitions or rules in the world of movies, but I normally consider things such as the shark from Jaws, Jason from Friday the 13th, etc to be 'movie monsters' rather than villains.

One example of what I consider an effective movie villain was Kylo Ren from the Disney star wars sequels. My first impression was "yeah, a whiny emo kid who wishes he was Darth Vader". But on subsequent viewings, it hit me that this kid was born to incredible power, felt genuinely betrayed by his family, so he wanted to live up to what he saw as the legacy of his grandfather. I actually wanted him to prevail in Episode IX - defeat the Emperor himself and persuade Rey to join him.

If nothing else, that would've set up a far more interesting set of stories for future episodes . . .