Touch starvation and male-to-male touch

Will564

This blog post is something that has been in my mind ever since I started looking into cuddling:

https://www.drcuddlesla.com/blog/touch-starvation-among-men-an-unspoken-crisis

One main point in it is that women are much more comfortable touching each other in platonic ways than men are with one another.

(And I don’t mean things like sports, hitting each other, pushing each other, etc)

I wanted to get a gauge on how true this is.

For me, it’s 100% true. I noticed this recently when I realized I almost never hug most of my guy friends. But there is one of my guy friends who always likes to hug, and I really enjoy hugging him every time we do.

But, I often feel too awkward or weird bringing this up to guy friends. And I’m wondering if I should juts start being more honest about it.

So I had a few questions. Thr first is to everyone, the second is to men in particular though women are free to chime in.

1. Do you think it’s true that women touch each other in affectionate ways more than men touch each other, or is that something all in my head?

2. For men, is it that you truly don’t want to touch other guys you know, or are you like me that you would like more touch, but you either feel awkward about it or both you and your guy friends do?

SuperManCuddles

Awesome 😎 topic 1.) Yes, to the first question. For the second question, usually I hug friends of any gender that are comfortable with hugging but get hugs often. I would agree that on average, many men struggle to show affection with other men, due to social conditioning. There have also been times before where I was hesistant to ask another man for a hug but happy that this site provides me a great opportunity to share affection with people of many different gender identities. Also I find that receiving cuddles on this site are much easier than approaching many real life friends. In real life, many people equate cuddling with romantic instead of platonic relationships.

Bear

1. I believe is true.
2. I believe men are raised not to show emotions or affection, especially towards other men. That it's gay and taboo.

I use to be more like that until I started cuddling more, since 2013. I would look forward to cuddle parties to receive hugs in general. To get a chance to fill up the cuddle/hug tanks as we would say. Over time I found myself surrounded by friends who love to hug in general, gender not an issue.

starrynitecuds

1. Yes, it's true.

During parties/get togethers, I will holler Group Hug! Noticed guys don't mind hugging each other then. It's less awkward.

1) Probably true
2) Not something I can speak to, since historically the vast majority of my friends have been female.

Erin_Elle_

1) Not in my personal experience. 🤷‍♀️ I never touched anyone, outside of boyfriends, until a few years ago when I started grappling/BJJ, and then found this site.

Morpheus

There was a very similar post recently. I’m not going to try to find it. I hug everyone. I grew up with brothers and played sports. I think male friendships, role models and mentors are very important.

Will564

@starrynitecuds

See, that’s what makes me wonder if with guys sometimes it’s that both kind of want to touch, but both are so afraid of what the other will think that they don’t. It makes me want to kind of risk being the one to take the first step and not worry too much.

I think about how you see male athletes hug and touch each other, and guys watch it and don’t think anything of it. I guess it feels like in those cases those guys have “proven” their manliness. So I’m thinking part of it may just be having confidence and not being scared to be vulnerable.

@Erin_Elle_

It’s interesting, I read your profile and even though I can’t relate to the martial arts side, I have felt very similar to you when it comes to touch even though you’re a woman and I’m a man. Until now I’ve always associated touch with romance and sex, and it’s made me touch averse and scared to touch people even though I enjoy the touch. So cuddling has been helping me get more comfortable with that.

@Morpheus

I think that has been part of my problem. I’ve never known a guy who has made me feel truly comfortable being my self (apart from online friends). I have met women who have made me feel that way. I don’t think I ever had a true positive male role model/mentor that ever made me feel accepted for who I am. Every one I knew didn’t understand me and wanted to make me into something I’m not.

I hug both my male friends and female friends. I have noticed that men in general tend to be less okay with hugging one another, but it has never been a problem to me to hug another man. I also used to have close friends, both male and female, I used to cuddle with platonically.

1. I'm not gonna make any statements about women's experience.
2. My experience growing up as a male in the eighties and early nineties left me with the sense that men are in constant competition with each other. I have a difficult time opening up to other men, and I have a hard time being cared for by them.

JohnR1972

1) I definitely believe that is true
2) There are only 3 other men that I would hug for more than a few seconds without thinking twice. For them, it is because of shared experiences (think non-military version of “Band of Brothers” - deep, life long bonds formed by going through extremely difficult activities / challenges together).

FWIW, when I was gathering data for my post last week on “CC Monthly User Statistics (US Edition)” I found about 7% of men said they “cuddle everyone” and about 3% said they only cuddle other men. About half of the men who said they “cuddle everyone” self identify as gay and virtually all who only cuddle men self identify as gay.

Katelyn_B

1. It seems to be, yes. I find myself noticing this more since I've gotten into cuddling. I'm pretty touch-oriented with my friends, for the most part, and it was apparently so normalized that I never thought much about it.

2. I won't presume to speak for men about this. I will say that some of the men in my life have echoed what I'm reading men reporting in this thread, and what seems to be the case from the outside looking in.

timbear50

Great question... I touch my guy friends a lot. Mostly it's appreciated and reciprocated. But it's never much in terms of duration. And as has been said elsewhere on this site I think a good 20 second hug - that's when the big benefits start to kick in. I travel internationally for work, and have seen cultures in Asia where men friends hold hands. It's great. I've not seen that here, two men holding hands I would assume is a romantic partnership. On another note, I have a few friends that just don't like hugs and touch full stop. In fact one of my good friends has a no touching policy, she's incredibly kind and very intelligent, it's just a really strong preference. I always have to catch myself when I get up and leave, and hug her partner and others in the farewell line up.

Great, needed question! Thank you!!

I grew up with quite a few sister, so touch was the norm in our home. We'd cuddle together, like a puddle of puppies, to watch tv shows, judging outfits, and just generally enjoying one another's presence and touch. Even my experience with my women friends leaves me with the impression that, since we don't have to "prove" anything about our sexual orientation by withholding physical touch, we seem to be totally okay with sharing supportive, encouraging, happy, inclusive touch, as women.

Having worked in a male-dominated field for many years, I was always baffled by the vicious pecking order thing that I observed among men. When I saw someone do one of those "Moses parting the waters" miraculous saves, I wanted to go hug him, high-five him, tell him that it was MARVELOUS, etc. The other guys would yank his chain, tell him it was nothing, etc. I'm like, "WTF is wrong with you!!! DID YOU SEE WHAT HE DID??????" But, I didn't. I've learned that that was just something that men have been trained to do---attack each other, pecking order style, instead of supporting and rooting for each other. I still see that, today, in some of the interactions I've observed among adult men...

Oh, but the experience of volunteering with little ones!!! Years ago, I volunteered at the schools, for the 2nd Grade classes. LOVED IT!!! lol Before the damage, before society tells them that it's not okay to love their friends, that there's something wrong with hugging or throwing an arm around their "best buds," little boys were lively, LOUD, ACTIVE, and open to walking along, with their arms around each other, laughing, playing, getting dirty, and just being their wonderful little selves----- WITHOUT HATING THEMSELVES FOR ENJOYING THE TOUCH AND PRESENCE OF THEIR FRIENDS. They'd sit together, touching sides, laughing and chewing on mashed potatoes, giving NO THOUGHT to whether or not doing so impacted their virility or manhood... They were good, and right, and fun, and whole... before the damage..

The good thing is that those little boys STILL LIVE, buried inside of these big, burly, rough, mean fellas that walk around. I don't think ANY of us EVER lose the hope of feeling a favorable, supportive Masculine Touch---whether we admit it or not!

"Come here, Son. I want a hug." "Great job, Son! I'm proud of all that you've done!" Father wound... It is a b*tch...

KuddleKingg

2. Had a coworker who is a male who asked me for a hug. It was just unusual because I have never had another male (me) for hug. It seems it’s more uncommon.

Will564

@Fematheist

Your post makes me so happy to read. I love your vivid descriptions and your unbridled passion and enthusiasm. I honestly wish everyone viewed the world the way you do about this.

The good thing is that those little boys STILL LIVE, buried inside of these big, burly, rough, mean fellas that walk around. I don't think ANY of us EVER lose the hope of feeling a favorable, supportive Masculine Touch---whether we admit it or not!

I feel this so much, and the fact that I feel embarrssed to admit it just re-emphasizes the whole problem.

Thank you so much for your post. I’m going to try to use it as more motivation for things in my life.

Oh, wow!! I'm glad my words touched you so deeply! My ENTIRE HEART meant every one of them!

My own wish for everyone would be that we, as human beings, would realize that we carry sooooo much ancestral trauma that our Souls have forgotten what it is to live in, and to be loved and supported by, a Tribe; that we EACH need to feel the inclusion and belonging that our Souls were born to experience. It is my Sacred Hope that we eventually realize that WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER, and that we find a way to get back to togetherness... ALL of us!

Katelyn_B

@Fematheist: I have to chime in and say that I am finding a lot of what you write beautiful and it vibes with me too.

@HarleyGirlKate~ I've been LOVING your positive vibe (and AWESOME PICS!!!), too! You, more than many, are positioned to understand just how vital it is for ALLLLL of us to be mindful of the "two-wheelers" on the road! I don't have the NERVE to ride 'em, but damn if it doesn't look like an ultimate FREEDOM!!!

BNACuddler

Thanks for the topic and for sharing the blog post. I think it very accurately describes the state of our society as a whole.

Based on my observations, (1) is true. As for (2), I want more touch, and am comfortable expressing that and engaging in platonic touch with a few close friends, but with other guys I’m afraid of it being misconstrued, so I just don’t go there.

panda619

No thanks .

zee678

I think men are usually less affectionate toward other men. But I think that’s more of a sexuality thing than just a simple hug. I think that should definitely change because it’s more of a mentality issue as well. Women are very much affectionate towards each other that’s why they are much more understanding of each other whereas men aren’t.

BJC

@fematheist For some reason your posts in this thread reminded me of a poem by John Berryman. It's the first one from his 77 Dream Songs:

Huffy Henry hid the day,
unappeasable Henry sulked.
I see his point,—a trying to put things over.
It was the thought that they thought
they could do it made Henry wicked & away.
But he should have come out and talked.

All the world like a woolen lover
once did seem on Henry's side.
Then came a departure.
Thereafter nothing fell out as it might or ought.
I don't see how Henry, pried
open for all the world to see, survived.

What he has now to say is a long
wonder the world can bear & be.
Once in a sycamore I was glad
all at the top, and I sang.
Hard on the land wears the strong sea
and empty grows every bed.

KozyKim

I lived with a couple for a year and they would have poker night every Sunday and all the guys would sit on the couch and rub each other's backs and they would have long hugs when greeting and it was just so natural. They're all straight.
Im foreign countries, there's a lot of affection between men. It seems that only in the United States that it seem weird.
Actually, two best friends from that poker group would hold hands in public and they ended up getting T-shirts. That said we're not gay we're just best friends.. So I've seen a lot of affection between men, and I think it should be natural to show affection to other men.

My son has always been affectionate towards other men he always gives his guy friends a long hug, but he hugs women the same way. It just comes more natural for some people I guess.

Just sending the pictures in case people didn't believe me.

texzenguy

As I've gotten older, I've become increasingly comfortable with hugging my guy friends and coworkers, to the point where it's as essential to me as physical touch in general. I have several straight male colleagues who initiate hugs and I love it.

PeopleLikeUs

1) Yes women touch each other more. It's not in your head. I have 5 sisters, no brothers.

2) Growing up, I received most of my physical affection from my father and in the '60s/early '70s , men touched more. As we grew I assumed everyone would stay the same until I got out into the world and discovered most men fall back on what they learned at home. I'm the odd man out and I feel like touching between men is largely conditional. It can be learned or unlearned but I'm sure there are those where the tendency to touch or not is innate as well. We're all so different.

@KozyKim ~ WHEN I TELL YOU THAT THAT FIRST PICTURE WIPED ME COMPLETELY OUT!!! Hunger, hunger, thirst, thirst!!!! Wooooo!!! No further words!!! Goodness, gracious, witnessing that would have sent me into the stratosphere!!! Woooo!!!

@texzenguy ~ First, I LOVE your screen name! Second, I can attest to the fact that as we grow older, become more of our authentic selves, we drop society's nonsense and just go for what our Souls need... I LOVE that you have a few colleagues who now realize that you are SAFE to come to for the Touch that we ALLLLL so naturally need!!! Thank you for sharing that!! It fills me with hope that my crotchety, crabbly Self might get cuddled, after all!! lol

@PeopleLikeUs ~ I've written, elsewhere, that I grew up with sisters...and of how we were perfectly comfortable with touching and hyping one another, naturally and organically, with ABSOLUTELY NO THOUGHT of whether or not this impacted our viability as HUMAN BEINGS... It's crazy to hear that you had most of your physical affection needs filled by your father. You are definitely a unique case---but oh! You have cause for gratitude!!! Sadly, men have to venture out into a world where their deepest needs are met with skepticism and suspicion. I, for one, am glad that you have the insight to understand that not everyone has had the beautiful, affectionate experience that you had... and that, because you DID have it, that those who are fortunate enough to come across you get to maybe experience what it is to have kindness, laughter, and genuine, non-sexual affection shown to them by someone who knows how it's supposed to be done!!! Tendencies are indeed innate, but Example is KING!

*Posted by an "Old Dog" who's learned a few new tricks!

Will564

@KozyKim

Thank you so much for your post. This is something I've wondered for quite a while. I've only ever lived in the US. I've wondered for a while how different this is in other cultures. There's one pro cuddler I used to watch a fair bit with a Latinx background, and she talked about how in so many Latin cultures there was so much more active touch between everyone, especially in families.

The hand holding thing has always been something that's fascinated me in American culture. I don't know if it's super common, but I've seen women friends holding hands before. I suppose it's possible that the times I've seen it they've been more than friends, and I know there can be some gray areas sometimes....but regardless, if nothing else they didn't seem to care what people thought.

With men, it feels like the automatic assumption is that if they're holding hands, it must be romantic and they must be gay. To me that's just a great example of how everything with touch is perceived so differently with men than it is with women.

With your son, I imagine one thing that probably helped him a lot is that you encouraged him when that's what he wanted to do. I can imagine some parents discouraging it in their children, especially boys. So it's wonderful how open and comfortable he's always felt with it, just being himself.

@texzenguy

I'm so happy to hear that. It's so awesome hearing guys just being open about it and enjoying it. It's awesome when people are just happy doing what they enjoy just because they enjoy it, not worrying about anything else.

WestsideMarc

I have 2 kinds of male hugs:

1) Seeing a good friend gets the “bro hug”… defined as a quick hug with the traditional double-pat on the back then the quick release. (No not that kind you sicko!)

2) The “extended hug” …. (someone died and I’m sorry for your loss / I love you dad / I’m soooo happy to see you it’s been such a long time).

(Oh wait, there may be a 3rd! - The “awkward hug”…….. Where one guy goes in for the handshake, and the other goes in for a hug - and then it turns into some socially awkward mishmash of sorts!)

Will564

@WestsideMarc

(Oh wait, there may be a 3rd! The “awkward hug”…….. Where one guy goes in for the handshake, and the other goes in for the hug - and then it turns into an awkward mishmash!

OMG, about 8 years ago, this happened with me and another guy I know. Both of us were so thrown off by it, we did that awkward dance for about 30 whole seconds. I'm not exaggerating. And we had a group of about 6 friends all watching us, and they were DYING from laughter. The two of us must have looked so incredibly awkward.

To this day, it's a story we all bring up when we need a good laugh. It's one of the funniest memories we've ever had as a group. It's one of my favorite moments to make me laugh at myself in a good way.

PeopleLikeUs

@Fematheist Thank you for sharing your story and perspective. It's heartwarming to hear about your experiences and their positive impact on you. Genuine, platonic affection can indeed be incredibly powerful and healing, especially in a male culture where such gestures are often misunderstood or undervalued. I'm grateful for the environment I grew up in and for having the opportunity to provide and receive that kind of affection. It's inspiring to know there are others out there who appreciate and understand its importance. Your wisdom and openness are much appreciated. Connecting with like-minded individuals who recognize the beauty and necessity of human touch and kindness is always wonderful. Thank you for your kind words and for being an example of how we can all contribute to a more affectionate and understanding world.

Posted by someone who values every lesson from "Old Dogs" with new tricks! 😊