I really do think there's a lot more behind the label of either liberal or conservative, but I also agree that political discussion isn't really the best discussion for a cuddle. I think for people that are going to take issue with it (which is understandable for people who are affected personally by certain policies) it's probably best to bring that up before setting up. I personally wouldn't write someone off for being conservative but would probably want to probe a bit discussion-wise into what they're tolerant of. It's rather unpleasant to deeply connect with someone only to find out that they don't value you or your close group the same as a human being because of your sexuality or gender.
I thought about passing this thread by thinking, what is politics doing in a 'feel good' site; and after reading some of the comments, had to be a voice. There are some topics, politics being one of them, that create emotions that are not conducive to cuddling and should be avoided. If however you are using this site for 'dating' prospects, something that you should do elsewhere, then yes, bring up your political views in your bio. It's best to be 'partnered' with someone of 'like mind'. A 'PROFESSIONAL Cuddlier' however is like a merchant. THEIR opinions, views, believes etc are to be kept at home in a closet. It's about the client and their wants and needs. To make them feel validated, encouraged, secure, safe, loved or whatever else they need.
@Puglover627 my first thought when I read your post was “oh, this isn’t going to end well!” Lol. However, it’s been fascinating to hear the responses. The whole point of free speech is that different opinions and perspectives have value. If I am “wrong” about something, it’s unlikely that I will realize that if I am simply silenced. I am more likely to be influenced by someone who listens to my “wrong “ view, considers it and then explains to me why their “right” view is in fact, right. If valued I am more likely open to growth.
Whether conservative, liberal or another label we might use to describe ourselves, we are often tempted to react emotionally to differing views because of our own insecurities. Those views I hold that I am most confident in allow me to be a better listener.
Sorry for the long response but after initially thinking yours was a bad post, I have changed my mind. Lol.
Neither.
I am definitely more liberal than conservative. I generally find conservatives nowadays to be very hateful, e.g. Trump supporters (and other conservatives) seem to mostly be Nazis who view non-whites as inferior, and many of them are sexists as well who subcribe to men's rights activist (MRA) or manospherean beliefs believing that women should be subordinate to men. Many of these MRA manospherean conservatives (e.g. Roosh Valizadeh) actually believe that on private property women should be allowed to be raped. I have heard that in schools nowadays many young boys who are influenced by conversatives values are literally grabbing young schoolgirls by the pussy and sexually harrassing them thinking this is normal traditional masculine behaviour, which is a sad state of affairs. Men in power should set a standard of proper gentlemanly behaviour for other men to emulate. I personally think we should all be treated fairly and with dignity regardless of your skin colour or your gender. I think that the divisiveness that in politics nowadays is not going to help the world in the future, which will be plunged into war, chaos, environmental disaster, and this is the main reason why I don't want to ever have any children. If I go have a child, not only is it expensive to have children (one child costs US$1.1 million over your lifetime) but my child will grow up in a world filled with racism, sexism, religious extremism, division, hatred, and environmental degradation. With the way international politics is going, there will likely be a future nuclear war that destroys all of humanity. If my child doesn't suffer, chances are the generation after that will suffer or be eradicated, so to bring an innocent child into such a corrupt world is tantamount to child abuse, so it is better to never have children, which will save me and my future wife millions of dollars, which will allow us to live life to the fullest, to travel the entire world and see unique cultures and natural beauty while it lasts because the way the world is going now, it is clear that humanity is nearing its end. We must live our lives to the fullest while we can and bow out before humanity self-destructs and implodes due to excessive greed, ego, and aggression.
I generally find conservatives nowadays to be very hateful, e.g. Trump supporters (and other conservatives) seem to mostly be Nazis who view non-whites as inferior,
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@Keith925 Now I'm no Trump supporter, and I agree that he ran an inflammatory campaign. Still, I would say that part of your post is rather extreme. It gives credence to an earlier comment made by @Puglover627 and helps to further inflame the discussion here.
I consider myself independent. I prefer to agree with policies from both sides if I can identify. For example, I lean left on net neutrality and reproductive rights, whereas I also lean right on gun rights and the 2nd amendment. I would note that both sides desire the government to regulate on some topics and not others, according to their own views.
You're certainly correct to point out that inflammatory rhetoric from Trump brought out the hate and disrespect towards women in many groups. The thing is that they existed well before Trump started campaigning. His rhetoric served well to embolden these negative people. However, I can also see why moderate people stood behind Trump. Getting past his rhetoric, they saw him as the one who would help to advance conservative policies. It's a case of looking past the junk and seeing the treasure. We can find that many among them respect women more so than one would think seeing only extreme views.
That being said, I can agree with most of your post. It's certainly not acceptable to be sexually harassing anyone. Everyone should indeed be treated fairly and with dignity. I also wouldn't want children myself given the current state of affairs either, and many would share such a sentiment for various reasons. As far as fossil fuels and climate change, at the rate we're going, we'll be using fossil fuels until it becomes prohibitively expensive to continue doing so - and at that point, I hope it isn't too late.
Differences in beliefs are natural and normal. As long as people can disagree or agree respectfully and seek understanding of perspectives of the other, understand where bias and stereotypes enter, and can be open about their concerns and problem solve together, they can get along. If not. Well, move on, but so much more gets done with an open mind and fewer extreme positions
@JCat +1
@Keith925 , I am not sure if your post above was meant as sarcasm or reflect your true beliefs. Either way, that has to be the most ignorant post I have seen yet on this forum. Congrats.
@Keith925 I respect your right to your opinion, but I personally find it to be very close-minded. You don't need to like Donald Trump to be a conservative, and you don't need to flame his following to disagree with him. Conservatives are often not bad people. They just have differing belief systems according to how they were raised and how they experienced life. I could go on for hours about the things that are wrong in the social sectors of certain religions, countries and I do, but I will not blindly blanket an entire group. I would just like to share one final thought on this thread: I am tired of people parroting that conservatives tend to be Nazis. Being on the right, the far right, or voting for Trump, being a racist, a sexist, xenophobe etc. does not at all equate to Nazism, and is a complete disgrace to the millions of victims who stared it in the face decades ago. What we're living is a 5-star hotel compared to 70-80 years ago. The fact that people can read and jab something as severe as Nazism into our modern existence shows how blind we really are to the views of others. I'm not saying hatefulness and injustice no longer exists, but Hitler's Germany is not at all what is going on in America currently no matter how you want to slice it.
@Catloaf Just like with some of the folks on this site. I may disagree and bicker with some every now and then, but at the end of the day they aren't really bad people for it. If someone takes a political stance and runs with it you cant really blame the popular political party for the person being a zealot anymore than you can blame religion for the actions of a religious cult.
@pmvines Well said, well said. And anyway, there are extremists on either side... a lot of people seem to discredit or forget that.
Thanks to Puglover627 for posting common sense - my guess is 99.8% of folks in this forum are liberals, and I mean Trump-hating liberals at that. From my experience like others have noted, the supposedly "tolerant" left is about as intolerant as can be. I see it in my own family. I make it a point - no politics at all, period. It isn't important in a cuddle session, it only raises anxiety.
Thanks @Catloaf. I know what you mean. I am sure many conservatives are nice people, and to be fair many conservatives have denounced Trump. But it does seem to me like extreme elements are becoming mainstream now among conservatives, and I worry about the impact on the younger generation of men, especially when I read articles like this.
I use to be very liberal but over the past couple of years I did a lot of growing and through that process became more conservative, though I lean a little to the left on social issues. I'm definitely not a fan of feminism and SJW's
@jmbank what do you think is wrong with believing in social justice? Is it wrong to eg want young men to treat women with dignity and respect? I am concerned with young men or boys today being indoctrinated with anti-feminist ideology eg MGTOW. It would be concerning if I brought a child into this world.
@Keith925, Trump captured 53% of the white women vote. Are most of these misogynist? Nazis? Or maybe they just aren't ready to move in the direction of more socialism (Hillary). Fear is the enemy of rationale discourse. You are concerned about bringing a child into a Western world which is more tolerant, comfortable and safe for women than perhaps any in the history of human civilization. The article you linked to didn't look too scary to be honest. Guys afraid of getting married because they know guys who got hosed in a divorce...well that's certainly their choice isn't it? It's sad to see them drawing teens into this though. (Have you been spreading this fear about Trump supporters to teenagers yourself?) I know MGTOW is more and worse than that article, but it's the same problem really - their fear is driving them away from women just as your fear would drive you away from having children...and having conservative friends who could enrich your perspective on life.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” - Yoda
Thanks for your comment @11rollover. I appreciate your perspectives. I do not hate all conservatives.
Trump was many things to many people but his rhetoric was based on fear of certain people eg fear of Muslims, fear of Mexicans, fear of women and feminism, fear of non-whites, etc. So I think many white women who voted for Trump feared Mexicans or Muslims but perhaps weren't aware that Trump also wolf whistled not just to the racist elements of the population but also the sexist men's rights activists as well. Many conservative women I speak to are completely surprised by the misogyny among conservative men. I only need to show them some of the hate speech within the MGTOW and red pill internet forums. I find something similar happening with blacks. Even though most blacks didn't vote for Trump, a fair portion of them did, but those who did likely had some issue with women, but when you show these blacks some of the racism on the white nationalist forums, they are quite surprised. So people who vote for Trump, based on my observation, harbour some hatred towards some group without realising that they too are actively hated.
Ultimately many liberals and myself mostly want us all to get along, black or white or male or female, Christian or Muslim, gay or straight rich or poor. Let us all live peacefully together and be equals. Conservatives, on the other hand, seems to try to find ways to not let this happen whether it is trying to rationalize how blacks have lower IQ and are inferior or the reason why women are paid less is because they are not as smart as men or they are not natural leaders. Conservatives just try to divide and put others down. I am neither black nor a woman but I cannot imagine how much fear I'd be in if I were, especially having Nazis and manosphereans in positions of power spreading their propaganda to impressionable teenagers, and this can affect how the genders get along and skew how boys and girls interact and treat each other. Much of what the anti-feminists preach online borders on rape, pretty much teaching other men that women are naturally subordinate and therefore men must engage in manipulative tactics such as negging and dread game in order to seduce them. Imagine if this is the new normal. Imagine if young girls nowadays must subject themselves to this sexual harassment just to have a boyfriend? This seems to be what is happening on schools now that conservative ideology is spreading among the youth. Young girls deserve respect and to be treated with dignity, not as sexual objects to be gamed and manipulated for men's sexual pleasure.
I feel that raising children in this environment would be quite a challenge. Not having children because of the mess the world is in is a decision based on fear, but what is the alternative? Raising a child is not cheap, and humanity is hurtling towards either completely destroying the environment or completely destroying itself as we are consumed with division and in-fighting over nationality, skin colour, religion, economic status, gender, etc, and all this at a time when many countries have nuclear weapons and advanced technology. The best hope any of us have is to not have children so that we can spare them from being exposed to these horrors, and with the money we save from not having children we can shield and protect ourselves so we can have the best chance possible at survival and to also travel and see the world, its cultures and its natural beauty for one last time before it is eventually wiped out completely.
@Keith925, It sounds like you are spending too much time on the internet getting exposed to extreme folks. If you'd like, I can find similar examples of extremists on the left. For example, there are feminists who want to ban marriage and sterilize all men. You live in Australia and perhaps aren't exposed to real conservatives. I don't personally know any conservative racists. The most racist and misogynist guy I know is a life long democrat.
Conservatives aren't meanies, in fact they give more % income to charities than liberals. (For one practical example, look at the example of our presidents and presidential candidates.).
Anyway, please don't judge the group by the extremists. This is the cause of divisiveness in this country and in yours perhaps. Please examine yourself and the divisiveness you've spread on this very forum.
I think that labeling oneself as a conservative, liberal, or anything else is equivalent to saying, loudly, that one has nothing of their own to say in regards to such matters, no way to say it, and that they seek validity in the company of other like-minded individuals.
I disagree with this argument on a fundamental level. Humans use shorthand for all ideas. Even words are shorthand for thoughts.
So, I don’t think the label is the problem. What people do with the label might be a problem, however.
Anecdotally, I know both liberals and conservatives (who do use those labels to describe themselves) who can hold nuanced and interesting political discussions. And I know both liberals and conservatives who only parrot (and, poorly at that) whatever the party line says.
I don’t have any argument with the rest of your post, though.
Addendum, for me, personally: I don’t tolerate hate speech. Certified SJW and ❄️ here. Don’t @ me. ?
The labels, and what people do with the labels, are inseparable. They exist to categorize and divide groups. They provide a sense of identity in a setting larger than one’s immediate social circle, and a critical part of this is the “us versus them” mentality that has existed in our species forever.
They also provide a framework for conversation. If one belongs to Team A, they can only express themselves to a certain extent before being ostracized by their fellow team members. Any nuance or interest dredged up, I think, derives from appealing—slightly—to another group’s biases. It’s an absurd balancing act.
All of this likely seems very basic. It’s also my opinion that we, as a social species, can’t escape this ineffectual system. Striving for power and subjugating others is just what we do. The individual is mostly rendered unimportant, despite western socities’ fixation on the individual/rebel/iconoclast/whatever.
I have no ideal state to propose, but that’s primarily because I’m disinclined from believing that there’s an ideal state for homo sapiens to strive for. Save for non-existence, but that’s something else entirely. Furthermore, I don’t believe that my viewpoint is unique or really worthy of consideration. Yay!
There are some topics I wouldn't touch while cuddling because it's not the other person's business and it doesn't add to the experience. Like some of you have said, it would take away or make you feel differently. It crosses the boundaries of what this site and cuddling is about. I would likely not want to cuddle with someone again if he asked about my political leanings. My mindset about cuddling has nothing to do with politics. We can talk about many other topics. In today's political climate, so many people want to be offended and to antagonize that as soon as I hear it start, I'm done. That's a wall that will immediately go up and I would probably be done cuddling with a person in future. Why start something when it doesn't need to be there?
@hogboblin Nihilism, ftw, eh? ??
Ii am an aging (or aged) punk rocker atheist who is a social worker by profession. Most of the time I don't have to bring up politics for someone to assume what my beliefs are. However I am a rather complex human being with a few layers under my surface so one might be surprised with how I can be contradictory to certain stereotypes. So that is why I say I am neither. Not that it is anyones business really so I avoid being too specific. Just don't get much pleasure from political discourse.