@ubergigglefritz That would be perfect and my response would have been:
"Very cool, glad to hear that business is good and that you have a lot going on and still take time to do this work. I respect you situation and thank you for working around my request. What would fair compensation be for your time? Let me know when and where is most convenient for you? I can come to your general area if that will help, I don't want to be a burden. Looking forward to meeting you!"
Id like to add in that maybe professional cuddlers are not the best tea or lunch buddies either. Ive had a few coffees/ lunches and they werent exactly the best things to experience. Ive had uncomfortable questions be asked mostly through people "trying to find a right fit" by phone chats or coffee.
Also it got quiet sometimes and instead of doing what I do best in those moments, (hugging or cuddling) I end up feeling there is more pressure to find something else to talk about. That doesnt necissarily mean the cuddle cuddle session wont be amazing. I think if the professional has karma reviws, that, how their profile is set up/ photos, and messaging back and forth should be pleanty to get a vibe of if the person is a good fit. Just my opinion:)
@TouchIsTLC Thumbs up to that. Kindness and understanding can go a long way sometimes
@Brandi Well said thank you. I've actually experienced similiar situations where we aren't free to talk candidly in a coffee shop without getting odd looks. Much like you, I tend to touch first rather then talk. Yet in the coffee shop environment some of the men I meet are uncomfortable with even the simplest touch of fingers or hand on their hand. I suppose that type of touch is indicative in their minds to a different sort of relationship. But the fact still remains that some things just aren't discovered until in person. So, if you as a professional were to arrive and one or both of you found something personally offensive would you refund some or all of the money if it couldn't proceed? To @Jade I'm sorry if you thought I was signalling you out with part of those comments - the only part specifically aimed at you was that small paragraph with your name in it. I did look at your profile as you saw and i was actually very impressed with your layout and pictures. Since I'm doing this on my phone in a waiting room I don't have time to review everything so sorry in advance if I didn't get it quite right here. Jade I believe you were the one who actually took the time to mention that you did have fur family and advance notice would allow for a thorough cleaning of the cuddle room. Very considerate, that is indeed extra work on your part. But there is still everything else to it as well, to be considered by both you and other professionals. Last piece for you Jade, I do not interview my massage therapist ahead of time no. I will go to the location and ask to view the office area and room. I will do online review research and as stated earlier- all massage therapists at least here need to meet minimum public health standards at least to be able to practice in Minnesota. I wouldn't even consider one who tried to work around that requirement. So I a basic statewide idea of what to expect when I chose to employ a MT. But if I weren't satisfied I wouldn't hesitate to being it to the therapists attention and ask how to proceed since I'd realized I'd gotten subpar services for one reason or another. But I'm also an outspoken person who was raised by a small business owner and know the value of a satisfied customer. The professionals bottom line. If a professional, any kind, any type, and service(including home hospice SW) doesn't realize the customer is priority one then they won't be in business long. Yes pmvines; including hospice care. I have a family member that does care providing for end of life and because of that I know other social workers are available if the family has an issue with the one assigned to us. Unless your hospital is so small its a rural one im sure thats the case with your group as well.
@SweetPeaMN You and i are both welcome to have and state a difference of opinion. The difference is you are taking your disagreement to a personal level., as though you are angered by me in some form or fashion, in a way that seems excessive to what it is you are actually responding to. Not sure what your agenda is, but it all seems very personal to you. Almost as though you are avenging something. Kind of strange however again, i wish you the best and have no ill will...
For those that are following this and to the original pro from my OP - I had my first Pro Cuddle and it was absolutely amazing. I can't thank her enough for her time, effort, patience and just being an awesome time when we met and cuddled.
I think she would attest that I was not a time waster and that we both had a great experience (and the Karma she left me speaks to that).
TouchisTLC I think everyone is entitled to their opinion. If someone asked if I could meet them at my closest Tim Hortons for an ice cap, just to see if we fit, I totally would. I love meeting new people, the fact that they would come to me and make it convenient for me is a plus, and taking a small amount of time out of my day to have a possible repeat cuddler sounds like a larger list of pros then cons. Too bad you don’t live near Toronto. I would meet with you ☺️
It will be interesting to see how many pros that seem so eager to meet with someone beforehand will do that if cuddling ever becomes mainstream or a thing. I mean if you are busy with more cuddlers than you could possibly cuddle the capitalist instincts kick in and you will gravitate to the easiest clients to cuddle as well as the ones that tip the best...it is self preservation in its purest form. This is why untested altruism is only theoretical altruism.
@FunCartel I currently only cuddle with people I feel safe with. That's my only reason for ever stopping seeing someone. People who are constant boundary pushers or who don't agree with what this service is (people asking why there are boundaries and that there is no reason to not allow certain touch, LOL). If my schedule were booked as much as I wanted, the only thing that would change is I could hold tighter to the niche I most enjoy, which are people seeking cuddles for a more therapeutic reason. People seeking it for other reasons may get referred to another cuddler. More mainstream would also mean more cuddlers, more options. So people could really do better in finding the right cuddler to fit their needs 😊 Which would be awesome.
*Anyone who would normally past initial screening should be allowed an initial session though, even if limited to an hour. Many people don't realize the depths of why they're seeking the services at first 😇 I guess the point is that I would have an arsinal of professionals to refer people to so I can see more people who fit my niche and for whom I feel the most fit to help. And vice versa, since there would be more options, people can choose the professional they fit the best with and who they most enjoy or feel the most comfortable with.
I would not meet someone for a drink ahead of time. It's just a strange situation for me personally. It blurs the line between professional and casual. We already walk that narrow line here. Saying that, "Yes, this is a 100% professional situation. But, sure, we can meet up for drinks and a friendly hangout off the clock...." That doesn't sound professional to me at all. Any healthcare professional or massage therapist would say that's a definite no. I actually cannot think of a single profession that would consider this to be an okay situation. I'm sure there are some, but I cannot think of one. The only less professional practices I support are sending a picture or having a short video chat to show that you are who both of you say you are. That makes sense.
If some people want to do it, it's a personal choice. This non-professional situation should not be expected any more than it would from a doctor, psychiatrist, lawyer, teacher, etc. It's perfectly okay for a cuddle buddy to just say no. It might set off any number of people if a person seems as if they feel entitled to these off the clock meetings that are not necessary and are in no way a part of what we do.
No one needs to meet us (taking up an hour of our day plus gas) to know if they will enjoy a future cuddle session.... You can schedule a session and know within the first 5 minutes whether you will enjoy it or not. Then, you can continue it or leave. It would save a whole trip for everyone. You don't need drinks to built intimacy or a connection. I find both quickly within cuddle sessions.
Could you imagine spending endless hours having drinks with guys who never intend to hire you and who only want you for company? This would very quickly turn into that if it became the norm. Women would never make it out of drink shops or be able to deal with our own responsibilities. Some of us are asked out for drinks constantly. The one thing we can never get back in life is our time.
@RaindropSweetie
I can easily imagine meeting potential clients for drinks/food, simply to get to know each other, have a chat about styles, influences, training, and specialties.
That’s how gigs work, as a musician.
Even if you have the manager/agent/publisher/publicist as part of your team, at some point in music it’s about a conversation.
Services that are professionally intimate, such as cuddling/massage/life coaching/trainer, are always going to have trouble in separating the service, from the professional, from the intimate.
Especially as, for the most part, the clients requiring such services are approaching a professional because they lack whatever trait/circumstance is required to get those needs met in a “normal” relationship.
The fact that a significant chunk of humans (males, especially) are aggressive, disrespectful, pushy, and often threatening or violent, certainly doesn’t help.
I’ve utilized a professional cuddler, and, attentive and skilled as they were, it wasn’t something I got a lot of value from.
Because, while the physicality was nice (long hugs, good smells, happy chemicals, etc...) what I’m really wanting is the acceptance, intimacy and solace of a non-judgmental companion.
There are lots of industries where a professional will meet in person to see if it's a good fit. Definitely a free consultation call though. "Coffee time" is actually an option on my inquiry form once I start traveling in my motorhome full-time. I need some people willing to commit, but I understand not everyone can do that...
@CharlesTwisted Have you ever had to meet a client for drinks as a requirement for a job? A conversation is one thing, and entirely understandable. Requiring someone to set aside part of their day and travel for you for an audition... well, that part certainly does seem like a musical requirement. The difference is that a musical audition showcases a musician's talents while going out for drinks doesn't show off a cuddler's talents. Most conversational skills can be shown off at the cuddle appointment. People can decided who they like at that time as much as they could in borrowing an hour ahead of time. There may be some exceptions such as you preferring to hear a person's voice ahead of time, but that does not require any blurring of boundaries or wasting of time and resources, it can be done over the phone in a short amount of time.
I think I understand what you are saying about your personal needs. Please, correct me if I am wrong. You need more of an ongoing, non professional friendship? I'm not familiar with how most cuddler sessions go. Is there not acceptance or a true, deeply intimate connection there within the session?
Meeting for drinks, or a meal, or at a party, or at a green room/backstage grip and grin is totally normal. The highly professional among the scene call it “networking”, but first and foremost in any of the art scenes I know about is marketing, and relationship building.
Talent and skill are second and third place, in terms of who gets what gig.
There are, of course, occasional exceptions once an artist becomes WILDLY successful, but most work-a-day artists, and struggling up and coming artists, are all about being as nice, easy to work with, and connected, as possible.
In the realm of hypothetical, if Quincy Jones team calls me, and says, “Mr Jones would like to meet you and chat about a new project you might fit in on. Can you meet him for drinks at the Beverly Room?”, my instant, professional response is, “That sounds wonderful. It’s nice of him to think of me. What time?”
As to the cuddling...
It’s a fairly heavy question, but I (and I speak ONLY for myself) have trouble believing that any deep, intimate connection is possible with anyone that is being paid to be there.
Not least of which is, how can you trust the “acceptance” of someone being paid to smile?
It’s like trusting your waiter about how fresh the fish is... They are being paid to move that “Fresh Caught Snapper”, and they don’t care that it is actually frozen cod, from the last delivery two Wednesdays ago...
I'm sorry you feel that way about cuddling. There are Cuddlers for whom that is accurate and also Cuddlers for whom that is wildly inaccurate. Same as with waiters. I waitressed years ago and never abided by any lies they wanted me to tell. Can't. Won't.
@ubergigglefritz
Please don’t get me wrong, of course there must be boundaries in professional services.
And, because we are human, most of those boundaries are about personal safety, both physical and emotional.
I don’t think that professional Cuddlers (masseuses, artists, waiters) SHOULD be intimate or emotionally engaged with their clients.
My experience was mostly positive, but ultimately not what I was needing.
I’ve had real, freely given, freely accepted, give and take intimate connection before.
And, I hope, will have it again in the future.
For now, I know that I’ll simply go without, which is less than fun, but circumstances are what they are.
@CharlesTwisted I see what you mean about working as an artist. I knew a guy who hung curtains for movies in Hollywood. He said he hadn't had a day off in a year, and he's maybe had 4-5 days off in 5 years. I asked why, and he told me that when they call you say yes and jump. If you don't they will call someone who will say yes, and you won't be hired anymore. It seems really stressful, but I get it.
I can respect that you want to know 100% that the other person is there for you and that you need the peace of mind. You do whatever you need to do.
There are multiple layers to professional cuddling. There may be a layer with no emotions involved, but a good cuddle with free flowing emotions is another level. I could not do this well without emotionally connecting to the other person. Why are they here? What do they need? What are they missing? What are their innermost thoughts and feelings? The intimacy allows for an entirely different experience. The more I know, understand, and feel, the better I can serve.
I have no doubt there are professionals out there who take as an emotional approach as they are safe experiencing personally.
But the issue there, in both directions, is that that trait makes them no different from an amateur.
And then we are back to the round and round of, “What, exactly, is being paid for?”
Personally, I’m still working on that question...
But, having multiple conversations about boundaries, expectations, needs, skill sets, personal baggage/triggers, goes a long way to working all that out.
It also fills the “role” of an “audition”. Probably for both parties, but certainly for the customer.
If the professional I’m considering hiring can’t be bothered to ask who I am, what I am looking for, what I am comfortable with, and what I want to avoid BEFORE I book them, why would I assume they will bother with such things during the session?
I would think that meeting someone first, or at least a long conversation(s) via chat/text/phone would be something professionals wanted to do, simply to be certain of boundaries, expectations, and their own safety.
As a musician, I certainly get how the meet and greets are a pain in the schedule, but I also think they are crucial.
I’ve said no to a few gigs, and I’ve had detailed contract riders added to a LOT of gigs, based entirely on those meet and greets.
Sometimes I say, “Yeah, cowboy punky-tonk isn’t my thing, but have you talked to Joe-Bob? He is great at that!”
And sometimes it leads me to put “Musicians are ONLY providing backing music for THE ACT. The BAND will not participate in the ACT in any other way. If ANY fluids, bodily or otherwise, soils a musician or any of their equipment, the PRODUCER will pay an additional $1,000.00 for cleaning fees, and/or counseling”.
(True story, real contract rider...)
Putting emotion and passion into work is not what defines amateur or not. A chef at home vs in a Michelin Star restaurant... What's the difference? They make the same dish with the same emotion and passion. The setting, additional rules, and pay make the difference. I've known psychiatrists who put emotion into their work, and they got the best results. Teachers who bond with students on the job make the best teachers due to those connections. Then, they go home. Putting your best qualities into a session do not make a person the same as an amateur or any less professional...
There is no problem in asking people what they need or discussing boundaries at the start of a session. Why does anyone need to drive to meet to have the exact same conversation they can have in writing, on the phone, or during the session? Let's refer back to doctors here, we don't ask them for a prior audition and a coffee meeting about boundaries before we go to an appointment.... The same for massage therapists. If we need to announce extra boundaries, we do so at the appointment.
I speak with many people on here even with no plans for sessions. If people start feeling entitled to our time and goodwill, then is it even a friendly gesture anymore to reach out and connect with strangers online? Further devaluing good qualities.
It sounds like meetings are crucial for your job. They are not crucial ahead of time for cuddling. It's right up there with a pre-appointment coffee meetup to a medical appointment. Talking online should cover any pre-appointment needs far beyond what most professionals are subjected to.
What are you paying for? You are paying for time and focus. There are many threads where I explain this... 😇
And boundaries. An assured safe space. Etc.
@ubergigglefritz That is a very good summary.
it seems like folks expecting a cuddler to spend all that extra time on them might have unrealistic expectations of what to get from a cuddle session. You cant expect a cuddle session to fix your problems.
I can fully understand the reluctance of female pros to meet in public. Sociopaths and psychopaths can be very manipulative and seem extremely normal to lure you out. Once in public they will see what you drive, the license plate number, possibly see your name if you have to rummage through your purse, etc. In this day and age just a smidge of information can unlock where you live, your personal information, your bank account number, and ultimately, if they are obsessive, they can watch you from afar for whatever reason.
Not wanting to meet a client on their terms is a safety precaution.
@pmvines Totally spot on.
The client could book for just an hour and simply not repeat if they had a bad session. If the client is apprehensive they should simply only book pros with positive karma.
@boomerang86 Unfortunately, having positive karma doesn't mean much aside from indicating the person has done sessions. Sometimes the words actually in the karma can indicate more, but overall, take karma with a grain of salt here... 😞