"in order to be called gentle instead of pathetic"
The world seems to be be treating "typical" men of say 50 years ago, as Neanderthals ; and almost any 'feminine' behaviour by a man, labels them as a 'modern'. I'm thinking of : top soccer players cuddling their babies, or CEOs taking paternity leave.
@geoff1000: Men have always behaved in stereotypically feminine ways as well as stereotypically masculine ones (and so have women). The difference is in who's seen as behaving stereotypically, and who isn't.
It's a matter of perception all the way 'round.
Not mad, not fearful, not Victorian.
Simply pushing back on the group think.
Loving this conversation and everyone's input.
This is kind of my point. If someone wants to behave in a way which is stereotypical of the other gender, there is no need for them to identify as that other gender ; they can just get on with it.
If identifying as that other gender, is so that they will be treated as if they were that other gender, then make it easier for people. As an example, many forenames can be male or female ( Alex, Sam, Danny ), but I expect trans people always pick as their new name, one which is unambiguously the gender they are transitioning to.
When I was growing up, on Friday evenings, my parents would get together with their friends, after working long hours all week, had a cover dish dinner, and afterward played a card game called bridge for a few hours. There was no sarcasm what so ever. They knew how to hold mature adult conversations. They didn't sweat the small stuff of this life. I miss those days.
“If you make something to benefit everybody, then it becomes bland. That’s what I’m getting at.”
Yes, @exsanguinate we all know what you are getting at.
@geoff1000: I may not be the best person to explain this, since I see all humans—male and female, cis and trans—as essentially the same. I'm gonna give it a go anyway.
As I understand it, being a woman means acting the same way everyone else does, but not being slapped down if you, say, express an emotion other than anger, or wear a pretty dress. So someone seen as a man could "just get on with" doing what comes naturally, but it's going to be hard on them whenever they do something outside their assigned gender box.
Therefore, if you're the type of person who has a tendency to do things people wearing your label get penalized for, you may want to swap labels. But this doesn't mean you want to become a stereotype!
A cis woman can be a tomboy. If a trans woman's a tomboy, people jump all over her as "not really female."
Is Cis an acronym for something?
A cis- woman behaving like a man, is OK ; but they shouldn't complain if some people think they are a man.
If a trans woman is wanting to be identified as a woman, but is
behaving too much like a man, and complaining that society refuses to accept her as a woman, because she could be a tomboy ; I say that is their own fault.
I could dress as a woman because I like to look that way, but it would then be my own fault if people assumed that I was a woman ; and I would look rather foolish for saying "But 0.1 % of men like to dress up as women, and is is unfair of society to judge me by appearance".
@WKCuddles I am with you on that one.
@FunCartel Thank goodness for SNL & Dana Carvey!!! Bringing it all back into perspective!!
OUTSIDE IS THE BEST place to be a bystander!!!!!
@DarrenWalker you are so freaking amazing!!! This was the best right here... ready for it????
-----------\ @littermate: You find my expression delightful? [pleased] Aw, dang. Well, like Data, I still plan on learning how to express myself in less mechanical ways. ...Or at least trying to. 🤷♂️😂 (sillysassy enters in emojis)-----
@Kense: "Cis" is an uncommon prefix meaning "on the same/this side of" (as in "cisalpine" or "cisaconitic acid").
@geoff1000: A cis woman behaving "like a man" isn't likely to be mistaken for a man by even half of the people she interacts with. A trans woman, no matter how she behaves, is.
And there are, in fact, both cis and trans men who like to wear "female" clothes (just as there are many, many women of both types who like to wear "male" clothes). Since appearance isn't anything but appearance, why judge a person by their coverings?
...Ooh. Emoji translations by @sillysassy. Neat. Thanks!
Oh, wowie zowie! You guys remember the good old days. I, too, remember the good old days. They definitely were good, weren’t they? Not like now. Things sure aren’t ideal now. No, one might even say that these are bad times.
When did this change occur? I’m not too sure. Maybe one of you can fill me in? When did society become so bad?
Ah, for a return to the good old days.
@sillysassy For every Data there's a Deanna Troi.
The hypocrisy is astounding.
@FunCartel, you couldn't make your point, so you tried to mock me with a SNL character and discounted me based on what you believe is my age. What is equally astounding, all this was in the context of a civil discussion about the use and abuse of labels.
That no one called you out is simply disappointing.
@littermate OF COURSE DEANNA TROI!!!! She's a DOLL!!! She was a counselor as well!!! hahahahha so many memories flooding sitting in my parents living room. Waiting for the next episode.....