Female pro cuddlers became pro due to very high demand

chocolatey775

Almost all the female cuddlers here are now pros. Around 98% I believe. You will be lucky now if you find a female non pro cuddler here. Did they just became pro because they get swamped with a lot of messages and monetary offers that they decided might as well turn pro?

For the female pros here, Is it really a profitable business?

geoff1000

I think in the UK, the female cuddlers are mainly non-pro ; perhaps because sex work is legal. There is a much smaller market for those who only cuddle platonically ; and any male who wants only a platonic cuddle, can "buy a Big Mac and ask for it without cheese".

I wasn't on this site 5-6 years ago, but if you go read really old forum posts, you'll see that originally pros weren't allowed on the site. However, there were two regular complaints on the forum:

1. Men complained that there weren't many women on the site, that women rarely messaged back, and that it was very difficult to find a cuddle partner.
2. Men complained that women were trying to charge for cuddling (even though they weren't supposed to be).

Eventually the site decided to just give in and allow pro cuddlers, but they had to be officially marked as pros.

So the things I take from this are:

A. There were never many women on the site. The lack of women here isn't because they all become pros. Even if there were no pros there still wouldn't be many women here.
B. In any sort of social situation, whether sexual or platonic, demand for women is so high and demand for men is so low that eventually women will use that high demand as an opportunity to make money.

It's possible to get depressed by B, but hey, that's life.

Sheena123

I work a full time job here in Canada but when I’m in Florida for the winter from November to April, I can live off cuddling alone. That pays for car payments, car insurance, rent, gas, food, phone bill, and some extra. I definitely couldn’t do this alone in Canada. There just aren’t enough people even though I live almost an hour away from Toronto. Florida is amazing for cuddles. I get a lot of sessions and they become repeats ☺️

geoff1000

@CuddleMeLater
You really are seeing it in a very negative way.

"demand for women is so high and demand for men is so low that eventually women will use that high demand as an opportunity to make money."

Should be.
"demand for women is so high and demand for men is so low that eventually women will address that high demand and disadvantage by allowing men to pay them for it."

Perhaps you would prefer a law which demanded women give themselves up for free, so men didn't have to pay. That went out of favour, when we stopped painting on cave walls with our fingers.

@geoff1000 "Perhaps you would prefer a law which demanded women give themselves up for free, so men didn't have to pay."

Yes, I am all in favor of women being legally required to cuddle men on demand. You have 100% correctly interpreted the point, as you always do without fail.

Look, I'm okay with the current state of affairs, I don't walk around being all miserable because people charge for cuddling... but can't you just admit that it's not ideal? Can't you just acknowledge that hey, it would be really great if everyone in the world could have all the cuddles they want without paying for it?

geoff1000

@CuddleMeLater
No.
I refuse to acknowledge "it would be really great if everyone in the world could have all the cuddles they want without paying for it".
I do think it would be really great if everyone in the world was paid equitably, so those who need paid cuddles ( or paid anything else ) can afford a reasonable number.

How would pro-cuddlers then make an income ? It wouldn't be so great for them. Gain for one part of society, is loss for another. Wishing for ill-fortune on a minority group, is a step on the road to Hell ; and given that most pro-cuddlers are female, it's a sexist idea.

What if for instance everyone could sing perfectly ? Those for whom singing is their only talent, would be redundant. Many of us are "one-trick ponies", and only have a place in the world, because our specific skill is needed. Think of Blind Pugh leading the pirates through the fog.

What if women could impregnate other women ? Male embryos could then be selectively aborted, or male babies castrated ; and some people say that would save so many difficulties around the world. The saying goes, "Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it" ; but we should also worry if such wish-granting means other people might get their wishes, which are bad for us. We men in glass houses, really shouldn't wish for stone-throwing.

craM

Thanks for explaining how things were on the site a long time ago @CuddleMeLater

I started out with the pros but I have been able to find non pros too. I love it here and belive the pros worth paying for and the nons are with waiting for

geoff1000

@craM
👍 😀
That should be the site "tagline" :
"The pros are worth paying for, and the non-pros are worth waiting for. "

sillysassy

AWWWWWWWW @craM that is a FANTASTIC way to sum it up. 😍💕💖

TouchSanctuary

To be honest I think it would be ideal if both these conditions were met in our society:

• All people have mutually consensual access to the touch, cuddles and platonic affection they want/need
• All people have enough money to survive and thrive on, no matter their circumstances

Unfortunately we haven't reached this stage in society, and I'm not sure how we could get there. I do think that normalising platonic touch through spreading awareness and running cuddle parties is a good thing. I've seen a number of straight men get comfortable with hugging or even cuddling other men at local cuddle parties in my area, as they are fairly male dominated. At the last cuddle party I went to (before COVID started), the only other woman there was another professional cuddler.

The socioeconomic/financial issue is a complex one as well, and probably too difficult to address here. But I do think more could be done to ensure that everyone has enough to pay for their rent, food, petrol, medical bills, and so on. The problem I see is that if pro cuddlers didn't exist and society didn't change in such a way that everyone had more access to consensual affectionate touch, a lot more people would simply go without touch altogether.

So I'm not sure what the best solution is here. I don't think removing the option of being a pro cuddler would mean there would be more women enthusiasts willing to cuddle men here. It would just leave men with less options overall. For example, if I was an enthusiast, I would most likely never cuddle with a man who is married or partnered, unless he was explicitly in a polyamorous relationship. However, with clear professional boundaries in place, I don't see it as an issue.

geoff1000

If stores were banned from selling baked beans, I don't think they would be given away free, by stores which got them free from farmers.

Some people, who really enjoy growing baked beans in their gardens, might give away the occasional can, but not enough to meet market demand.

sillysassy

@TouchSanctuary 💖

geoff1000

I think it's in "Enemy At The Gates" where an advocate of Communism says he has realised it will never work. We can make people equal in income, or Standard of Living, give them the same size house, and free treatments for illness and compensations for disability etc. but it is ultimately futile.

What makes us happiest, is to be "chosen" by a person we choose, to feel they want to be with us. Everyone is different, and our tastes are different, so there will always be people who lose out. Equality is a practical impossibility.

However, the thing which makes us next happiest, is to be "chosen" by a group, which we would choose to join ; and that perhaps can be achieved. Even if it's only a group which mostly interacts, by posting messages on an Internet forum. 😊

Sideon

@TouchSanctuary , your posts and comments are fantastic. Not a stalker here, but when you post I am sure to read your contributions. Thanks for your clarity and clear writing.

littermate

@craM Sweetheart!!!
@TouchSanctuary I second that.
@geoff1000 You are being super hard on our friend @CuddleMeLater, don't ya think? I also agree it would be super awesome if everyone could have all the cuddles they wanted whenever they wanted for free. I also think it's a crying shame that it's so hard for the fellows to find someone as enthusiastic to cuddle them for free as they are to do the same.
I'm enthusiastic about cuddling (well, but Covid) you fellows (well, a number of you) but I'm just one drop in the bucket. Alas.

rgoode85

@geoff1000 Wow! Now this is a quote: "What makes us happiest, is to be "chosen" by a person we choose, to feel they want to be with us. Everyone is different, and our tastes are different, so there will always be people who lose out. Equality is a practical impossibility." So true...

Sounds like you need to write a book.

rgoode85

Okay, this is my first time here in this forum. Hello everyone.

Soo...regarding this topic, I wanna say that I agree with everyone (to some degree): @geoff1000, @TouchSanctuary and @CuddleMeLater. As @geoff1000 also said: “Life is what it is”, that's true. Scar (from The Lion King) also once uttered: “Life's not fair, is it?" But I think there’s room for optimism and there has to be something better for all of us to strive towards, an ideal. Maybe not communism, but the purer form of socialism, perhaps? Standard deviation to the curve to spread wealth, opportunities and happiness. There will be those who will have more than others; but everyone will be looked after. Everyone has access to healthcare...everyone has access to a cuddle buddy. lol.

Now, to @CuddleMeLater's point, perhaps if the 'pro' female cuddlers were actually therapists or licensed in some way - to obtain the 'pro' status, maybe that would help to justify the lack of cuddle sessions for the men that ACTUALLY do lose out, as you have said. For example, if I go to see a chiropractor, I have to pay. But should I pay a non-professional the same amount of money, that also knows about spinal health...from reading articles and Wikipedia and can also do the adjustment for me? Or massages is a better example: massage therapist vs. non-professionals who provide sensual massages.

Every single woman on here can't be a professional. I’ll use your example of singing/musicianship: there are singers/musicians who went to school for singing; or those who took courses to practice methodology in singing. Then, there are those who were born with the talent and simply became successful without formal study of music or singing. And then there are many others, who claim they can sing just like the professionals and actually do charge people for their time; but they neither went to school for it, nor are they successful at it; but they have some talent that some people agree to pay for. And finally, there are the rest of us, that don't sing or can't sing...or stay on pitch.

Anyone who can't sing...should NOT charge for their time to sing - that's karaoke. lol. Those singers who didn't study music and are not professionals...should also not charge for their time to sing...and if they do, it needs to be at a low or discounted rate. Then the singers who are professional, successful and those who have degrees in music, should absolutely charge for their time to do their thing; because they are certified professionals.

I hope my breakdown of the tiers in music helps to explain my position on this topic...and also help to show how i agree with @geoff1000 to some degree and also with @TouchSanctuary and @CuddleMeLater. I empathize for the men who can't afford a cuddle session.

Sidenote: I noticed for some of our professional female cuddlers on here, in their profiles, they provide discounts and special programs or price markdowns in their rates...and I like that. For one, I respect these ladies for going the extra mile creating discount programs to their rates; I believe it helps for the men who can't afford that popular 'standard minimum' of $100 or more for 1 hour.

Lastly, as I was thinking about what to write, I thought about the gender imbalance that is happening in China and India right now and it is scary and sad. There are "leftover men" that are really having a hard time dating and finding a partner for marriage. The men-to-women ratio is 118 men to 100 women in China specifically. I did watch some documentary where there is a company that is building robotic female dolls for these men that may never have a female companion for the rest of their lives. Sigh. SMH.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/cnainsider/leftover-men-china-get-married-gender-imbalance-one-child-policy-10485358

geoff1000

The male - female gender imbalance at puberty and beyond ( too many men ) exists in part because the ratio has historically existed at birth, but was redressed recently by medical science ; helping to address the higher infant mortality of boys, which had historically "restored the balance" ( by culling ) over our early years. It's like making layer cakes, if 1 in 10 "tops" always goes wrong, it's sensible to make 11 of them for every 10 "bottoms", so they pair up after cooking ; and if you fix the "tops" failure problem, there are some left over. As a single man in my 50s, I console myself with the idea that I am "leftover", by acknowledging that the"blame" lies with a modern healthcare system that helped me survive into my teens.

It's like why we have so many old, sick people ; because we are getting illnesses in our 60s, that were irrelevant when we were dying in our 40s. I hope that in the next century, we'll have lots of sick people in their 90s.

Some cultures favour having male babies and favour looking after them better in childhood ; either by the practice of dowries, or simply that they are likely to be more successful. As gender equality improves, so female babies and children are more valued ; the numerical imbalance might also reduce.

If true equality is impossible, I do like the idea that a CEO shouldn't be paid more than say 50x as much as their lowest-paid employee. Perhaps men should similarly be allowed a baseline of say one cuddle session ( or sex ? ) each year, like a long-term prisoner having occasional conjugal rights. Prostitution would be permitted, on a very infrequent basis, for those who would otherwise go completely without ; like homeless people can visit a food bank to avoid starvation. In the UK, insulin is free, for diabetics who cannot make their own.

A woman's "genetic imperative" is met by having babies ; but a man's body can't know if it has produced a baby, only if it has done something, which might lead to that. This is what skews our sex drive ; it's like some obesity is caused because the person's stomach doesn't release the "I've eaten enough" hormone, so they are perpetually hungry.

We shouldn't be too disparaging of robot female dolls and the men who use them ; it saves inappropriate behaviour with human females, and such "couples" can enjoy as much unprotected sex as they want, without damaging the world through overpopulation. I think use of the word w@@ker, to describe a man who has sex on his own, should be banned ; they are doing us all a favour.

Human evolution is like putting people on the Moon, the very few people who made it, only did so by the efforts of those who didn't ; we all have our part to play. At age 57, and with no children, I consider my role is instead to support my siblings raising theirs. The forwards in a game of soccer actually score the goals, but the mid-fielders help set them up. The solid fuel rocket boosters of the Space Shuttle, didn't make it into orbit.

In terms of pro-cuddlers being paid, think of actresses. Some are better suited to different roles, and even the highest-paid A-listers couldn't play every role going. Who should decide how much they are paid ?

I also don't think training and qualifications should be mandatory. When Kevin Costner chose Whitney Houston to play alongside him in "The Bodyguard", he told her to NOT have acting lessons, because that would have spoiled her natural ability to realistically "play the role" of a pop star. Sometimes an amateur, is better than a professional ; precisely by not being so good. Patrick Swayze, a qualified dancer, had to "down" his game, to realistically play the semi-professional role in "Dirty Dancing".

UCpaaHVg6u0

@geoff1000 I'm not getting why things like prostitution or sex with dolls or prison conjugal visits are necessary as you seem to imply. It might be much, much better to go through the process of not acting out in such ways, in order to rechannel ones focus onto things that are available. Adaptation is how any successful organism responds to what it perceives as a lack of resources. We are here to share about cuddling and often to hook up with other cuddlers, even pros. That all seems pretty positive as long as everybody is consenting. Prostitution as it's generally carried out leaves a trail of victims. I can't imagine that dolls are consenting. Eventually they're likely to rise up, and won't that be ugly!

rgoode85

A male wrote on this site in another forum: "The price increase is what’s kept me away from pro cuddlers and this site in general as of late. It’s beyond ridiculous at this point."

And then, there was a lady who responded this way: "I'm keeping my M-Th price at $70/hr. My weekend rates have gone up, because my weekends are getting to be a higher and higher commodity for me in my life. I'm happy to offer that lower rate if you can make a M-Th work, and I also offer monthly packages to save even more money. It's definitely possible to find more affordable people, but I understand it being difficult sometimes. I just spent almost $1,000 to go to the Cuddlexpo last weekend and spending even more than that to attend Cuddle Sanctuary training in a few weeks. I should charge more, but I still feel the price is fair, and I empathize with the cost for my clients, so really want to try my best to keep some opportunity for cheaper sessions. It's a free market, but I feel frustrated sometimes right along with you guys, that there are professionals able to find clients for well over $100/hr, meanwhile I'm sitting here with ten stellar karma reviews, training, fully responsive, available, and fully committed to this work, and it's definitely a struggle sometimes."

Of course, there are ladies who think this way: "We can charge what we want. If 20 dollars more will break the bank for you then you probably shouldn't be doing this . Time w / a younger good looking girl who will spend time cuddling ( mostly ) older men , isn't going to be cheap . My inbox is flooded w / clients who have no problem paying 100 + & I just won't see the others , they can get someone who charges less."

But I agree with the first woman and I think that's more or less what I was trying to convey earlier.
She is a true professional that is really trying to be a cuddler for most people. When you read her profile, it is like she's into the science of cuddling, attending cuddling expos and conferences to learn more about the craft.
And, like I said earlier about providing discounts, she does that too! This is how it should be.
Its almost as if you can tell between these two ladies, who is a true cuddler. Thanks @geoff1000 for your explanation into the gender imbalance in this world.

pmvines

@rgoode85 I know exactly who the first person you are referring to ( @ubergigglefritz ) and I know from experience that she is very cool and professional and sm lucky to call her a friend . I also know exactly who the second person is you are referring to . I do agree that she and others are free to charge as they wish and aren't obligated to lower their rate and aren't bad or somehow less professional for not lowering their rate . However the obvious ego , entitlement, and condescending attitude does make her unprofessional and kind of an ass. Even if she wanted to cuddle me for free I wouldn't do it

Lev136

As far as I'm concerned I'm glad to have pros. on this site. I don't mind spending the money if they are doing a good job. As far as the rates, you can choose how much you are willing to pay for a good cuddle and how often you cuddle. Being older , I find that pros. are non - judgmental and are more willing to cuddle with me.

ubergigglefritz

There is SO much to respond to in this thread! I have a deadline for myself to hit the road today though, so just a quick response. @rgoode85 That is a super old quote, ha. Rates have grown unfortunately, but I appreciate the compliment and the attitude is still there definitely. I have so many opportunities for discounts it almost gets to the point if ridiculousness sometimes. 😆 Also, as my business has changed, so have the incentives. I used to want to prioritize weekdays (as explained in your quote), now day has zero matter to me, but I only have one client a day and it's helpful to do more when I'm in each area, so I'm happy to make it a good deal to spend a "whole day" between cuddle and social time, offer multi-day packages, etc. So my listed rate is $100/hr, but after you have one session at that rate, many people choose other options for future sessions that result in a much lower effective rate. I am regularly shifting and adjusting, incentivizing, according to what I need and what my clients need. This has been a fun journey. 😇

I agree with @pmvines in that the opposing attitude is a huge turnoff for me, even if her cuddle session experience may be awesome in the end. 🤷‍♀️ I am in no way out to milk my clients for every dollar they have and clients with less money are absolutely as deserving of what I provide as those with more. The restriction is that I need to profit when I travel, so unfortunately there are people who I am unable to help. I'm trying to do the best I can though. 😞

As for education, there are actually plenty of people who don't like professionals with training, that they seem robotic and clinical. I don't like that either in a cuddle professional, 😝 but I think someone being educated is also indicative of humbleness and general interest in this work. I do have natural talent, yes, but that doesn't mean I know everything and it certainly doesn't mean I don't wish to do everything I can to be the best I can be. Unfortunately, "advanced" education opportunities as would be helpful for this work is still few and far between, so I haven't found much since I started in 2018. If anyone knows of an opportunity to learn about working with people with PTSD as it would help in physical contact with them, I am VERY interested.

Man my short response was rather long. I guess that goes to show how much meat is in this thread and how much I really want to respond to. 😆

geoff1000

I'm told that in 1950s Russia, the price of apples was fixed ; but customers couldn't afford that, so the apples rotted and were binned. Wines vary in price by a factor of 100 or more, and many of us couldn't tell the difference.

I wouldn't mind a pro charging $1, 000 an hour, as long as they didn't then complain at having no clients. Rates will find a natural equilibrium, such that supply is reasonably balanced with demand.

@UCpaaHVg6u0
Many people struggle to get, what most other people take for granted ; and we support them financially, with equipment, and anti-discriminatory legislation. I think it's too easy for people who naturally have their needs met, to criticise those who ask for help to meet their own needs. For the first few months or years of life, we are all utterly reliant on others. Most of us have needed healthcare professionals.

Human beings are successful all over the world ; not because we have individually adapted, as the beaks of Darwin's finches, but because humanity has created micro-environments ( clothes, homes ) where our natural selves can flourish, including extra features for those who need them.

People should not be too upset at the drive of a human male adult to have penetrative sex ; without it, the human race would die out. It is argued that it is less important than water, food, shelter etc. ; but a male Praying Mantis has evolved to happily have its head eaten off, for a good shag.

The human instinct for survival, usually gradually changes from the survival of oneself, to the survival of one's offspring ; that being the only way our DNA strand can continue beyond 100 or so years. One usual requirement of having offspring, is sex with a fertile female, so that becomes the drive ; like a person who is motivated to win a lottery jackpot, is motivated to buy tickets in it.

TouchSanctuary

As far as price goes, I actually have the lowest price in my area (though only by a small margin). However, I decided not to go under $80 per hour, as going too much lower could undercut existing professional cuddlers and create more of a competitive vibe. The most experienced professional cuddler in my area strongly advised me not to undervalue my services and charge too little, so I took her advice on board.

I also have a disabling chronic illness that prevents me from working most regular jobs, so the income makes a big difference to me. I'm happy to give discounts to other disabled people in the same situation as me, but I would hope that my clients who are able bodied would be happy to support me rather than begrudging the cost.

geoff1000

Being qualified in something, is no guarantee one can make money doing it. The plot of "Frozen" includes a character earning a good salary cutting ice blocks from a frozen lake to be used in the town ; until the whole town becomes frozen over.

AceCuddlerMike

@TouchSanctuary What we need on this planet are some laws to eliminate collusion designed to keep prices high, or to get around the anti monopoly laws already in place. Or do we already have them? : )

TouchSanctuary

@AceCuddlerMike we didn't discuss specific prices - I just started out by operating on a donation basis before going fully professional, and she encouraged me not to undervalue myself and my work. I actually find clients are generally more comfortable with set prices anyway, otherwise they feel awkward not knowing how much to pay. When people don't know how much is expected, they often feel uncomfortable and wonder if they are supposed to give more. It just creates an problematic dynamic, much like how people often don't know how much they should be tipping. (Tipping isn't really normalised here in Australia, the way it is in the USA though.)

So there was no collusion to keep the prices high. I did however read online that it's best not to undercut competitors in the same industry, so I took that into consideration.

AceCuddlerMike

It's best for the industry(and the people who stand to gain financially from it).....not for the consumers spending their money. Walmart undercuts it's competitors.....doesn't everyone at some point? What's the difference? Competition is GOOD for us! Or else you'd be paying $85 for your favorite shampoo. The people who don't want competition when it hurts their bottom line, but love it when they get a great deal on something.....smh. I guess most humans just wouldn't be human if it weren't for our inconsistency and our ability to form our opinions on the fly to best suit our situation.

geoff1000

@AceCuddlerMike
A long time ago, someone tried to standardise the effort of removing a nut from a bolt, so that people would always be paid a fair price for their labour. They came up with about 20 levels of difficulty ; ranging from a quarter-turn with one hand, to an oxy-acetylene torch. Many goods have standards we can compare, I found that a cheap tin of stew was 10% meat, and an expensive tin was 40% ; so I paid the extra.

Sometimes different stores will stock identical products at different prices, but there can be other factors. I'm told the story of a customer in a hardware store, complaining that a saw was priced at $15, when a store on the other side of town priced the exact same item at only $10.
"Well Sir", asked the storekeeper, "Why don't you buy one from there ?"
"Because they don't have any in stock."
"in that case" , said the storekeeper, "our prices are lower, because when we don't have them in, they are only five dollars".

People pay extra for car servicing, if the place has a decent waiting area.

Setting a fixed price helps those who aren't very good, and would have had to charge less ; and hinders those who are particularly good, and would have been able to charge more. That just drives down standards. Customers always have the option to not buy.

Trying to price a pro-cuddler, is like trying to price an actor. The comparison is even more valid, because they are both "performance artists", of a sort. Actors aren't paid by length of screen time, number of words, or physical effort ; but by intangible factors. The price they command is based on how much the studio thinks their inclusion will help the movie to make money ; which can be measured by popularity, that we replicate as Karma.

Cartels are bad, but they only work with monopolies. If Cuddle Comfort priced pros at $50/hour maximum, it wouldn't help, because Cuddling Comfortable might set a standard of : $40, and steal all the clients ; or $60, and steal all the pros.

Parts of the world have higher and lower costs, and variable ease of transport. A single worldwide price would be impractical. As it is, some pros tour to areas where the demand is higher ; but those clients are still inconvenienced, because they aren't available at short notice.

The best way to reduce effective prices, is to increase the size of the industry, because if the nearest pro of choice is 10 miles away instead of 200 ; travelling clients will be happy to pay more ; and travelling pros will be happy to charge less. That, my friends, is in our hands.