Cuddles to watch out for

I had a very interesting conversation with a friend yesterday. She had been contacted by a guy who was from out of state and was looking for a cuddle. Because of the way things are locked down here in MI, she went ahead and scheduled the cuddle with him. She went twice. Here's the bad part.... the first night she went, everything was fine. They discussed how each of them would dress for the cuddle and all was good. The next night, she asked if he would be ok with her not wearing a bra this time as it isn't very comfortable for her to keep it on due to her size. He had no issue with that, so that night, when she changed for the cuddle, she got into her t-shirt and shorts and joined him. It didn't take him long to start groping her. She asked him to stop because that is NOT why she is there. He continued, so she got up and threatened to report him. His response was that he travels all the time and cuddles all over the country. He didn't care if she reported him because he would just delete his profile and make another one.

There is a lot more to the story here, but I'm hoping everyone get's the general just of things. So now I'm left wondering how often this type of thing happens. Is there any way women can protect themselves from predatory men like this? Is there something the moderatos can to to make it more difficult for these men to just delete an account and sign up again?

I'm asking this because there are so many men on here who are genuinely looking for nothing more than a platonic cuddle buddy. Predators like that are what makes it so difficult for us to find one. There are literally 1-15 men on this site for every woman that is here. I would just like to find a safe way so things like this don't keep happening to the women who choose to join the site.

quixotic_life

It's this kind of thing that makes me feel even more strongly that when registering our accounts we should be providing some form of ID. Even though CC for legal reasons/implications probably needs to be more hands off, I feel there should be a way to track/store a person's identity. I think this would cut down on all sorts of undesirable behavior significantly, or at least make it harder for predators to roam around here freely.

samgao

I’d say, pepper spray. It wasn’t an invitation, but more of a comfort thing. She even gave him the courtesy of warning him before reporting him. That’s, kind of rude, and breaking trust for us guys here...

TheMidnightOwl

@cuddlestogive I have experienced this and more here. 😡 Thanks for sharing. So sorry this happened to your friend.

I agree with @quixotic_life There needs to be more accountability! I think we need to sign a contract stating if we attempt or coerce any sexual contact we will be reported to local police. Just getting banned isn’t enough of a threat for some to behave.

Another thread in the forums demonstrated that some men somehow do not know what the word “platonic” means. This may explain some of the dudes who treat this like Tinder. They’re not bright and too lazy to read the buried posts and FAQ explaining what the purpose of this site is. Perhaps we need to be more explicit in stating platonic means “non-sexual” immediately upon joining and even on the homepage before they create an account?

Mike403

@TheMidnightOwl - Everyone should be required to pass a short quiz before joining. That will force them to read the policies and they'll have no excuse that they didn't know what "platonic" meant. Carry a bottle of pepper spray. If they push any boundaries, they get a full dose of it in their eyes.

@quixotic_life A phone sms verification can go a long way, though I believe it does need some capital to use a service provider. Not the perfect solution but still it'll make life difficult to recreate profiles.

@TheMidnightOwl I LOVE the thought of a short quiz like that! I'm not sure if the moderators can require more personal info or not when signing up, but I feel strongly that they should. It would definitely cut down on the number of predators on this site if they could be tracked back to who they really are when/if they step out of line.

It's really a shame that it even needs to come to something like this. I think some of these guys stumble across this site, or maybe even look for it intentionally, and think they can coerce unsuspecting women into something more than a platonic cuddle.

I mean, this is really only the tip of the iceberg.

In my city at least, police usually won't do much about any sort of sexual assault (well, other than tell women to be more careful or try to find some reason it was their own fault it happened). Even if a woman flat out gets raped, she can go to emergency, do a rape kit, and submit it with a report, but it's more likely than not that the police won't even bother to process it (they'll leave it to go stale), or will just point out that it proved she had sex, but doesn't prove that sex wasn't consensual. If she just gets groped, I wouldn't hold my breath that the police will help her.

I'm against carrying pepper spray. For one thing, if I miss or he figures out what I'm doing before I get it out of my bag, that sounds like a great way to get beaten up or killed by a guy who felt like he was entitled to my body and was angry I fought back. And even if I were to successfully get pepper spray in a guy's eyes and stop him, it sounds like a great way to end up with an assault charge after the police tell me I was overthinking things and had no reason to viciously attack the poor guy, since I wasn't even injured, etc. Police do NOT tend to be on our side.

Women are careful for damn good reasons.

I want to add something else too. If you're a guy who doesn't do this kind of stuff, but you say, "Well, there's nothing I can do about it, sorry ladies," you're still helping to foster an environment where this kind of behavior can thrive. Be active in helping women. Be vocally anti-sexist. If predators feel like they have no support and actually start fearing consequences for their actions, women will be able to let down their guard more.

Mike403

@squeakytoy - Wow.... You must live in a messed up area if women are not allowed to fight back against their rapist. I'd suggest carrying a gun to sessions, but that may be overkill.

Parad0x

My suggestion, if this happens to anyone, is to save all available information about the individual in question (photo, name, profile ID, contact info) and share it with all of your friends and contacts, and encourage them to further share it with all of their friends. This way the community can have a sort of unofficial list of high-risk clients.

@Mike403 , in theory, everybody is allowed to fight back against an attacker or sexual assailant here. The crux of the issue is this: will the police believe that you had cause to attack a man who you say was trying to sexually assault you? Especially if you have no injuries yourself (ie. were just being groped, but can't physically prove you were being groped)?

Mike403

@squeakytoy - Touching somebody without their consent especially in intimate areas is assault. You dont need to be injured. You should still be able to fight back just the same.

@Parad0x, this is honestly the best and only thing I've found that really helps. It is really great when women support each other by spreading this information, at least with their families and friends and other women in their networks. Anything that helps us keep each other safe is great.

@Mike403 I agree, and I wish it worked like this in practice. Also, I edited my previous comment to you to be more precise.

Mike403

@squeakytoy - How about a device you wear like a wristwatch that's connected to your cell phone and you push a button on it if somebody is trying to assault you and it silently summons the police without them knowing? Maybe that'll be an idea for an invention if it doesn't exist yet.

Sideon

Predator behavior needs to stop.

When I traveled for work, I stayed in hotels and would host the session with the pro or enthusiast. In all instances, I always always always (whether it was the first, second, third time, etc.) made sure the front desk was aware of the expected guest, the estimated time, and a backup plan to call or check on me if I hadn't called them. I know this is nothing compared to the ongoing fear and necessary strategic efforts that women must use on a daily basis.

@Sideon, that's smart! Darn good idea.

@Mike403, I remember reading about an app for women that's similar - you open it, then hold your thumb on a button if you're being followed and you're afraid that you're going to be attacked. It won't do anything as long as your thumb stays on the button, or if you release it and then tell it you're okay. But if your thumb suddenly releases and there's no further interaction, it will silently call for help and send your location. I've never tried it.

To be honest though, even if I had a gadget to silently call police, I still wouldn't trust them to do much to help when/if they arrived.

CuddleDuncan

The idea of requiring ID and also some sort of quiz at some point in the process are both covered in the GREEN PAPER thread. Read the posts at the top to start.

The first WHITE PAPER thread is also open. A future white paper will cover IDs and quizzes.

All comments and suggestions gratefully received. We can't completely stop this sort of criminal behaviour by amending the website, but we can make a difference.

Rezz

@Mike403

There's an app I use called Life360 https://www.life360.com/intl/

It gives realtime location to invited friends /family. It has a alert button you can hit to let those in your circle known you're in danger.
If you have a smart watch I'd assume this would do just that.

Mike403

@Envie - I like the watch idea better. It will look like just a basic time keeping device and won't alert the attacker that you may be notifying someone like pulling out your phone might.

@squeakytoy - It may still allow you to escape if they are holding you there against your will. I hope anyway that the police presence would scare them off.

sunnysideup

@squeakytoy I feel like on a lot of those true crime shows invloving a woman being stalked/harassed, the police didn't do anything until it was too late. I wonder if there is some way around this.

davidgfla

I'm a BnB host. On FB there are groups for hosts, one just for venting; oh yeah. You can learn from every other hosts horror stories and tweek your own listing, house rules etc to protect yourself. Guest have to agree to your house rules when they book. I do not have Instant Book, and vet each one. Many, once I mention 'do you agree to house rules?' vanish; as they were looking for a party house.
Any key word cannot be said enough, like platonic. Returning from changing cloths in prep is a good time to verbally reiterate the word, used as a question, a soft and gentle reminder. That is setting a line. The second the line is crossed, session ends. No more talk about it. Leave.
Also, what does Thesourious offer for key words like platonic. Use those words too in your profile to enhance words, but not repeat the same ones.
I am trying to rent a room. In my on-line listing it says- 'Bring drama, your on the street and homeless immediately!' The rest of the listing is warm and nice. It's a 'no joke' point to be made.

@Mike403, if you were being kidnapped and there was no ambiguity around it (ie. if it was by a complete stranger, which is not statistically likely), I'd hope that would be the case. But for stalking, groping, etc, these men usually don't feel like they are committing a crime. So if there's any ambiguity, they probably aren't going to run from police.

@sunnysideup , I've actually never watched those shows, but that sounds depressingly accurate. I just know about this stuff from my own experience, the experiences of all the women I've ever known who have shared these things with me, books and courses, the news and statistics. I think the only way to change it is to overhaul our police system (which probably won't happen in my city, but it doesn't mean we can't keep fighting for it).

Mike403

@squeakytoy - It's a messed up world we live in. Until men get more severe consequences, this is gonna continue to happen. It really pissed me off when that guy who sexually assaulted an unconscious woman only got 3 months. They should have locked that damn judge up.

sunnysideup

@squeakytoy well it's heartbreaking.

Good point that the men who do this stuff probably don't think they are doing anything wrong as they feel they are entitled to their actions.

@cuddlestogive Perhaps set your phone down and set to record? That way, if there in some type of altercation, it is documented and can be submitted to police as evidence, so hopefully these aggressors can be put in their place.

@Parad0x I like your idea. Since just about everyone trades pics before they meet for a cuddle, it would be wise for EVERYONE to save copies of all messages and pics sent before meeting a potential cuddle buddy. At least that way they have a record, and photo evidence, of the person that chose to get out of line. While it would be nice for women to be able to post pics of the predators in a forum somewhere for other women to check, I'm sure that the legal ramifications for the site wouldn't be good.

sweetsnugglesaz

(🙄 I remember why I stopped posting on here.)

Mike403

@Allerdale - If you post in the forums, you'll get profile visitors. That doesnt mean anything.

Don't carry self defense tools into a cuddle. That's dangerous for you, but also them even though they might deserve something.

I'd like to hear from the people who own and run this site. Tell us what's done now, and what is being planned to discourage and to protect members from predators. Everyone wants women protected. But that requires something behind those words. So I think it's fair to ask... what is behind those words?

I'm betting there are signs - common behaviors - that point these people out as probables. We might all hate profiling, but there's a reason it's done. It works.

Security is never a single thing. It's concentric circles of things that work together.