Cuddling with people whom have had covid vaccines and people whom have had covid

xandriarainxandriarain
edited January 2021 in General

I am wondering what your thought are on this matter. I have been faced with both situations. I would gladly cuddle someone who had been vaccinated or had recovered from covid if they were taking precautions and had a low chance of coming into contact with the virus. In my case, both potential clients had high-risk jobs with lots of potential for exposure so I had to turn them down. I know you can catch covid twice and it is still unknown if the vaccine prevents one from covid infection (and being contagious) or just from developing symptoms. I wish there was a way to know if someone had zero chance of carrying the virus.

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Comments

  • Plato33Plato33

    It's a tough one isn't it?
    I had Covid last month, am now fully recovered and it's been 2 weeks since I had any symptoms. Some people are still wary of being near me or coming into my home.
    The grim reality is that anyone could be carrying a virus, not just Covid but flu and other stuff. And I guess that's always been the case. There's always been an element of risk in close contact, one that most of us have accepted in the past (same as the risk we accept crossing a road).
    I think it's a matter of assessing the risk and deciding on a case by case basis, as you have done. If someone is medically vulnerable themselves it's probably a no no, unless it's a partner. Otherwise, it's like you say - are they careful, taking precautions, what's their job, etc.. Like other stuff one would also need to make a call on whether someone is telling the truth if they say they've had Covid or the vaccine.
    Isn't it horrible to think that a hug could be dangerous?

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @Plato33 That was articulated very well. There are no guarantees in life, and the best we can do is follow guidelines, ask questions and make our own decisions. I get tested all the time and anyone cuddling should too. But at the end of the day, this virus simply doesn’t care about your precautions or fears.

  • bokehbokeh

    Reinfection, according to the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html

    Reported, but rare. Looked it up recently, there were ~4 cases out of millions. Don't worry about reinfection.

  • Plato33Plato33

    Thanks @bokeh. Give a level of reassurance.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod

    I wish there was a way to know if someone had zero chance of carrying the virus.

    There is. Nobody has zero chance.

    Somebody who has already had it twice and has been vaccinated could have caught a new unidentifited mutated version a few days ago.

    It's all about probabilities.

  • [Deleted User]tjalex (deleted user)

    I'm getting the vaccine Friday. If anyone would like, I'll let you know about any aftereffects I may experience. I hope it's effective and more people will have the confidence to take it.

  • MaullySterlingMaullySterling

    @tjalex yes, please. I'm curious.

  • quixotic_lifequixotic_life

    @tjalex ~ same.
    Do you happen to know which type you're getting?

  • MrPaulMrPaul

    It is anticipated that getting the mRNA vaccine will make you about 3x less likely to transmit the virus if you are exposed to it vs. an unvaccinated control group. So, better than not having the vaccine.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod

    About 1.5 million people in the UK have received the Pfizer vaccine now. Zero reports of any serious problems, and I'm sure there are legions of journalists looking for them. Oxford vaccine (fridge temperature) being rolled out this week.

    A significant minority of people report minor symptoms: headache, nausea, etc. I'm sure some of these need a day or so off work. Majority report no reaction at all. In other words exactly what you would expect from a vaccine.

    That's still not enough of the population for it to have had any significant effect on the overall transmission rate. The results from the trial were pretty convincing though.

  • MattsWeatherMattsWeather

    I agree with what most of you are saying regarding asking questions about where people have been in order to make a decision on taking a calculated risk to cuddle. What I'm more curious about myself is the longer term effect the vaccine may have on close contact activities. They are already have apps developed for "vaccine passports" to prove someone's vaccination in order to attend a concert or to board a plane. When I think about more traditional closer contact settings such as an office, or if you go for a massage, I wonder if they will eventually require proof of vaccination in order to enter those spaces as well. I really hope we don't get to that level of it being required to do things.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod

    Spain has already announced that it will keep a register of those who decline the vaccine. They have also announced that it will not be compulsory.

    I find it inconceivable that airlines won't require a vaccination certificate sooner or later. I would expect that many large corporates will also require it of their staff. At that stage I would guess that many professional cuddlers would require it.

    Vaccination chits for one disease or another are perfectly common throughout the world and throughout recent history, it's not a new or even interesting thing. I have had to produce one or more on plenty of occasions. (Yellow fever most commonly, but also cholera, typus and others.)

  • xandriarainxandriarain

    Just so everyone knows, I have no plans to require my clients to get a vaccine and may not get a vaccine myself. I care more about exposure risk and don’t fully trust the vaccine at this point.

  • cuddleaddictcuddleaddict

    Xandrianain:

    I could write for days but will keep as brief as possible. As a medical laboratory scientist (my spouse as well) we're very familiar with covid. As you're likely aware, nearly every State is seeing a resurgence, the degree of which is highly variable. The best way to judge a particular State is how filled are a State's hospitals.

    boken is correct, reinfection is very rare. CuddleDungan concerns of mutated versions is logical, but all viruses constantly mutate (a change in DNA) to a mild extent, but it doesn't alter it's overall nature. DNA is only deep within the cell nucleus. The Moderna & Pjizer Vaccines target outer surface proteins. Covid 19 has spikes on the outside that attach the virus to your cells, and the vaccine seeks this out & activates your own immune system via a molecule called messenger RNA to fight it. You can think of mRNA like the very old punched paper tape used to program primitive computers.

    Although largely believed to be a new technology, the mode of action of the Moderna & Pfizer vaccine has been studied for well over a decade & used in cancer therapy for some time. The adaptation of this known technology to a vaccine was a relatively simple process already in progress when Covid hit. It's huge advantages over standard vaccines are it's it's extremely high effectiveness- 95%, much higher than other vaccines, and it can be easily produced in much larger batches than previous vaccines.

    The great majority of the basic science is done in a University Hospital setting by highly recognized researchers, published & reproduced by others before a committee of the most respected authorities in the field approve it as newly discovered fact. Many phases of clinical trials follow, the last of which are volunteers. Aprox. 73,500 people received this type of vaccine. Pharmaceutical companies can be thought of as the factories where large quantities of vaccine can be made.

    Several have mention side affects. In clinical trials major side affects will be noticed & the study will be terminated & the vaccine or new medicine never make it to the public.

    Some experience minor side affects from any vaccine, while others don't. If one experiences flu like side affects for a day or so, it's actually a good sign! It means the vaccine is working! Your body is successfully making a big batch of antibodies & memory cells against future exposure to the real virus, so you might feel a bit like your having a mild case of the real disease. It's all individual though- I've never had any side affects from any vaccine while my spouse usually does.

    On those more susceptible to Covid: Many other medical complications can make anyone more susceptible to to Covid. Elderly people are more likely to have more complications. But young people can have complications too. I'm sure everyone can think of a multitude of diseases that would make a younger or middle aged person more susceptible. But there is one that has been found to be more & more relevant, and you will notice it in youtube or tv reporting of families who have lost young people. Type 2 Diabetes, common but often undiagnosed in highly overweight young people.

    Every CC member, either enthusiast & professional, will have to make their own decision on what conditions they'll feel safe cuddling again.

    Xandrianain, you're showing admirable concern for your clients & yourself. You know it takes only 15 minute exposure to transmit the virus. Your chance of meeting a client with asymptomatic covid depends on the positivity rate in your area. In my area it's now 10% of those tested, meaning chances are 1 of every 10 clients will have it, could be the first, could be the 10th. So what can help?

    Everyone in health care is eagerly lining up for the vaccine. We know the risks of covid to ones self, family & patients. We not only trust the vaccine, but are thrilled how effective it is. My spouse had some minor side affects, I'm scheduled shortly. 2 days or so feeling a bit crappy is well worth it. After the second is fully in effect, I personally would feel very comfortable cuddling another who had the vaccine & my spouse agrees. If you didn't & your client did, I'd feel comfortable with that individual. But if you get vaccinated, and happen into a client who has covid, you're safe & won't transmit to others as long as you change & wash between, & ventilate room well if you're hosting. Masks & using positions where you're not face to face would minimize until herd immunity is reached. Very early on I snuggled both of us masked, just have to find one you're most comfortable in.

    I hope this helps you & everyone in the CC community & welcome any questions or comments. I've purposely left out everything about the pharm industry, government, politics, etc- where there are indeed many issues- but focused on what we as a community are most concerned with.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod

    News: Moderna vaccine approved by UK.

  • MattsWeatherMattsWeather

    @xandriarain I'm with you. I would never require it in order for someone to cuddle with me. I don't plan on getting it myself either.

  • MrPaulMrPaul

    @cuddleaddict
    Thank you for taking the time to present the important facts that people should understand about the safety and effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines.

    I was skeptical at first, but after I learned more a few weeks ago I now want to get the vaccine as soon as I am allowed to.

    I look at it very simply. If you get Covid-19 you could die or have lifelong problems. If you get the vaccine and you are exposed to Covid-19 you likely won’t have anything bad happen at all. It is an easy logical decision for me.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    This was alarming.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/05/florida-nursing-home-covid-vaccine/?outputType=amp

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod

    Not good. Not good at all.

  • cuddleaddictcuddleaddict

    MrPaul, thanks for the feedback. FunCartel & CuddleDuncan: Indeed alarming & not the only thing Florida's doing wrong. No priorities set for who gets vaccine first, so elderly & compromised who really need have to wait in huge day long lines with healthy people, only to get cut off if they run out or close. About as far from CDC guidelines as you can get. Florida doesn't publish any meaningful stats anymore. A woman who established a site where one could find data had her house ransacked by police under ordets & computers, drives, etc taken. Up to each state how they handle distribution, but Florida's approach to covid seems most alarming.

  • Andy1996Andy1996

    I have actually had to cancel a couple of sessions due to the fact that close family I have actually tested positive. So now I am sticking to virtual sessions.
    What I am wondering is when are people with conditions like asthma and going to be considered for this vaccine.

  • SFsnugglesSFsnuggles

    I personally do not want the vaccine and would not shame someone who did.

    Also the reports of people, even a nurse experiencing Bell’s palsy after taking it is very scary to me. I had Bell’s palsy in 2019 and it was one of the worst times of my life, and it lasted for months on end I am still only about 90% recovered and have some long standing effects. Viruses are one of the conditions that will cause an onset of Bell’s palsy — absolutely don’t want that again.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod
    edited January 2021

    @cuddleaddict forgot to say earlier, that long post was great, thank you.

    Since this forum and site is predominantely inhabited by residents of the US, even though the site itself is based in the UK, I just wanted to highlight how vaccine distribution is happening here.

    TL:DR The entire population will be vaccinated, free, in a clinically sensible order.

    The only source of vaccinations is the National Health Service. It is not possible to obtain a vaccine (legally) from any other source. (Private sector testing is permitted and costs around £175 per test, about $235 at current exchange rate.) In other words, there is no alternative to waiting your turn. Well, ok, I suppose you could make your way to Florida and wave money around.

    The NHS has announced a sequence of nine priority groups, which together cover about 40% of the population. The first is patients and staff at care homes for older adults, an area which has been a particular problem here. The ninth and last group is healthy adults aged 50-54, who are currently scheduled for about June. The vaccine is free. People will be contacted by their doctor when it is their turn: special arrangements will be put in place for groups such as the homeless who may not be registered with a doctor.

    Vaccine distribution is a technical matter and patients will not be offered a choice of which vaccine they receive. To speed up coverage, the second injection is being delayed until 12 weeks after the first one, instead of the originally scheduled two weeks. This delay has met some muted opposition from small corners of the medical profession who are presumably struggling to see the bigger picture.

    Overall, the plan is uncontroversial and explicitly, (if slightly grudgingly!) supported by all major political parties. About 1.5m people have been vaccinated in the first month with only the Pfizer (very cold) vaccine available.

    The current political party in the power is the Conservatives, who by British standards are usually considered to be right of centre.

  • Andy1996Andy1996

    The thing that makes me hesitant about getting this vaccine, is the agenda that they’re trying to push.
    For example Ticketmaster came out and said that to attend concerts you were going to need to show proof of this vaccine.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod
    edited January 2021

    @Andy1996 the thing that makes me not hestitant about getting the vaccine is the people I might kill.

    @SFsnuggles my sympathies, you are clearly at increased risk from Covid-19. You may be clinically contraindicated for the vaccine, or it may make a difference which vaccine you have. I would leave that one to your doctor!

  • SFsnugglesSFsnuggles

    @Andy1996 WOW! I am shocked to say the very least. I’m going to google that, but I do not feel like this should be mandatory. I am afraid of them requiring it for children to return to school as well. I don’t like that.

  • SFsnugglesSFsnuggles

    @Andy1996 I did a quick search and that information you came across is false. They are not requiring the vaccine for ticket sales.

    What are your COVID screening requirements?
    Updated: November 12, 2020

    We have noticed there has been some misreporting around safety protocols. To clarify, there is absolutely no requirement from Ticketmaster mandating vaccines/testing.

    In short, we are not forcing anyone to do anything. Just exploring the ability to enhance our existing digital ticket capabilities to offer solutions for event organizers that could include testing and vaccine information with 3rd party health providers. Just a tool in the box for those that may want to use.

    There is absolutely no requirement from Ticketmaster mandating vaccines/testing for future events. Unfortunately, this has been widely reported and is incorrect. Ticketmaster does not have the power to set policies around safety/entry requirements, which would include vaccines and/or testing protocols. That would always be up to the discretion of the event organizer, based on their preferences and local health guidelines.

    Source: https://help.ticketmaster.com/s/article/What-are-your-COVID-screening-requirements?language=en_US

  • Andy1996Andy1996

    I wouldn’t be surprised if they decide to do that. Make it to work children have to get it to go to school.
    We don’t know what chemicals are in this vaccine. And the thing that I also find strange is the fact that we have a vaccine for this. But why don’t we have cures for things like cancer and diabetes

  • SFsnugglesSFsnuggles

    @Andy1996 yeah, I don’t understand how, with the millions upon millions of dollars that are dumped into cancer research — there is no cure.

  • [Deleted User]DarkLordChungus (deleted user)

    @Andy1996

    Cancer and diabetes are not viruses. They're not in the same ballpark. They're not even the same sport.

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