@FunCartel ~ Ah... that makes sense.
@FunCartel - There was a discussion the other day about if the pro has been paid and the client is not respecting boundaries, she can just get up and leave and still keep the money. That's why I have no problem with preparing before a session.
I saw some alleged pro get banned before called Avarice I believe
@Andy1996 I really feel like people are taking advantage of you when you are just trying to get a cuddle. I’m so sorry.
This conversation has been very interesting for me to read as a female enthusiast. I often feel left out of this website due to the client/professional relationships that dominate here.
I truly feel like money should not be exchanged to experience the true intimacy that comes from cuddling. But, I am proud of the professionals for getting paid if the men are going to treat them like a cuddle that can be discarded when they are done. Bravo ladies, keep getting their money.
I know that I have bias. I know that everyone has bias. So please take my viewpoints for what they are worth. They are worth a lot to me but probably not much to you. Please don’t get too worked up about them. These are just my feelings. I just wish things were different… I guess we all do.
I would like to express my opinions. And now I feel like I have to say that these are opinions because I am regularly questioned for resources and for my PhD credentials… Let me just say what I have to say and take it for what it is.
I am a woman giving her opinion. I am a woman who has been hurt a lot by men. I am a woman who has suffered sexual abuse beginning at the age of 11 and continuing on and off for a lot of my life. I am a woman that was raped this last summer by a man off a dating website. I am a woman that has a professional diagnosis of PTSD. I am a woman who has suffered financial abuse, yelling, and extreme manipulation and control. I am a woman fighting back and standing up for myself even if it makes everyone upset with me. I am a woman who wants something more out of friendships because they all feel shallow and distant. I am a woman that does not fit in on dating sites and I don’t fit in on cuddle sites. I just want the type of friendship that UC and DW have 🦦🦦. So here are more of my thoughts...
—Andy wishes that he didn’t get scammed. Andy, I wish that too.
—I would guess that most professionals wish that men would pay upfront/give a deposit before meeting.
—Clients wish that women would just cuddle for free.
—Women wish that men would be more open and vulnerable to long-term friendships. And because these men aren’t, women charge money for cuddles so they feel like they get something in return for having their body snuggled up to without the feelings of security, trust, and true friendship longevity.
I guess that is all I have to say for now. Please feel free to add your own thoughts. I always appreciate dialogue.
Blessings.
@Importance I would very much like to add my own thoughts, but I don’t Want to get too off topic. Will just PM. Thank you for adding your insights, and sharing your experiences. And I’m so very sorry such a thing happened to you. I really hate hearing when stuff like this happens, I just wish it wouldn’t.
@Importance
You seem to have some weird ideas about pro cuddling. I'm very confident that almost all pro cuddlers became pros just to make money - not because they couldn't find men open to long-term friendships. Moreover, in the large majority of client-pro interactions, if there's any asymmetry, it's the client who wants more and the pro who has to set boundaries. Finally, I think many pros do feel security and trust with their regular clients.
I'm very confident that almost all pro cuddlers became pros just to make money
I regret to that say you not correct. Some do, certainly.
It is noticeable that the people who say things like that are always men with no photo.
@CuddleMeLater oh hey 👋🏻, how are you today?
Oh, and yes my ideas are “weird”. Everyone’s perspective is weird because we all see things differently. This is commonly referred to as bias but smarter people than me may be able to discuss this more intelligently than I.
Thank you though.
I truly appreciate your input. But I don’t understand your perspective. I haven’t walked a mile in your shoes. I know nothing about you. I apologize.
Feel free to look at a thread on the professional side where more ideas from my bias are explored.
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/forum/discussion/9816/why-cant-you-do-both-professional-and-free-cuddling#latest
I wish you well
Edit: would you be so kind explain your idea of wanting more from a cuddle professional because I was assuming (bias) that that meant you wanted sex?
I want more from my potential cuddle partners in the terms of more cuddling and more friendship and more quality time together. Not sex at all. I just want to understand where you’re coming from.
I hate that I just got this message just now right before I was about to comment 🤦♂️😅 ![]
Please do not post screenshots of conversations. Thanks. [-Sid]
@CuddleDuncan
How many cuddlers have you met and talked to about this?
Have you ever spoken to one -- one single pro cuddler ever -- who said she became a pro cuddler because men didn't want long-term friendships (which is what the person I was replying to claimed)?
Having talked to dozens of pro cuddlers about this, I've literally never heard anyone say that.
Get out of here with this nonsense.
You seem to think I was complaining about women's motivations, lamenting the idea that women are only in it for the money rather than out of care for their clients. This is not anywhere close to my point. Please read the comment I was replying to for context.
would you be so kind explain your idea of wanting more from a cuddle professional because I was assuming (bias) that that meant you wanted sex?
I wasn't saying anything at all about what I personally wanted or my personal experience as a client. And I wasn't talking about sex, although surely some clients want sex.
You are claiming that women become pros because they want more than what men are willing to provide -- specifically, long-term friendships.
What I'm saying is that it's usually the clients who want more, not the pros. Clients want more of a personal relationship, more genuine connection outside of the purely client-pro financial exchange, more of a real friendship. And, yeah, presumably some want sex too. And it's usually the pro who enforces boundaries, who says these are the limits of our relationship, these are the terms under which I'll see you, and so on.
As I said above to @CuddleDuncan , I've talked to lots and lots of pros about their motivations and history regarding pro cuddling. Some I've gotten to know over months and lots of sessions. I've never heard any of them say anything like the story you're telling - this story where she was sad that men didn't want more of a friendship with her, that she wasn't getting enough out of cuddling, and so she became a pro to at least be compensated for not getting what she wanted.
@CuddleMeLater
I believe you on both counts. I don't think you were complaining about anything, I think you were just telling us your belief. I think you hold that belief honestly and truly.
The problem, as has been suggested, is one of evidential bias. All these people regarded you as a client. Possibly quite a lucrative client. They all regarded you as the type of person who doesn't have a profile photo. The conversation progressed in a way that was partly guided by you and your unconscious attitudes, and the professionals' conversation was guided by their response, conscious and unconcious, to those attitudes.
To put it another way, your belief is based on evidence. But the only person collecting that evidence is you, and you're only collecting it in one context.
When I came to the forum, I thought that very few professionals were doing it for the money. I now realise I was wrong, biased perhaps by being in a different country. There is indeed a cohort of female professionals who think first and foremost about the money.
Remember, we all agree that some female professionals are doing it for the money. The part we are talking about is the "almost all".
We also need to distinguish between new professionals, and established ones. The proportion of those doing it just for the money is, in my opinion, likely to be higher amongst new professionals.
It isn't nonsense, it's part of a wider bias (that word again) of attitudes visible on the forum. I no longer look at forum posters as male or female, or enthusiast or professional, as I did at first. Now I look at them as face picture or not. Whether or not you have a face photo tells me more about you in one instant than either of those things.
All these people regarded you as a client.
Not all of them. I've become friends with several cuddlers and talked with them a lot outside of sessions. There's a cuddler I've known for over two years now, who I had a total of two cuddle sessions with and have since hung out with (non-compensated) many dozens of times. We've talked a lot about her experience cuddling.
I am confident I know how these people feel about cuddling.
They all regarded you as the type of person who doesn't have a profile photo.
This is your personal hangup. Pros don't have a problem with this, as long as people send a photo when they message. Some of them don't even care about receiving a photo at all.
Regardless, "most pros are in it for the money" wasn't my main point. I don't know why you're focusing on that.
Whether or not you have a face photo tells me more about you in one instant than either of those things.
It tells you that I don't want it widely known among my friends and family that I'm on this site. That's all. I always send multiple photos to anyone I contact about cuddling.
@CuddleMeLater - Which is why cuddling should be more mainstream. Nobody wants to feel ashamed for being here.
I almost hesitate to spend more time on this tangent, especially one that's already been beaten to death, but I want to clarify...
"almost all pros became pros just to make money" doesn't mean that they don't care about their clients. I know many pros who care about their clients. But (with a couple possible exceptions) their primary motivation, the reason they started cuddling to begin with, was money.
The only pro I've seen who I'm a regular of and isn't cuddling during the pandemic is still talking to me via text. I haven't paid her in a year.
Would any professional women feel comfortable weighing in?
Edit: here is an interesting discussion from the professional side of the forum on money. While it doesn’t address exactly what we are discussing here it does talk about professionals and their finances but only from a very limited amount of professionals.
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/forum/discussion/4955/full-time-professional-cuddlers#latest
It tells you that I don't want it widely known among my friends and family that I'm on this site.
Well, yes, I know you think that. But that marks you out for a certain type of person who thinks that.
Why do you think that, when it is completely impossible for somebody to find you here? (Unless they already know you are here.) There are literally millions of social websites, why would your friend look at this one?
And secondly, why are you ashamed of being here? It's a genuine question because it's so alien to my background. The way I and everybody I knew always lived was summarised beautifully by a colleague at my first proper job. "If you don't want to see it on the front page of tomorrow's paper, don't do it."
I assume you believe your friends and family would object. Well, so what? Surely it's better to live your life openly and honestly, rather than hiding in the shadows from the very people who are supposed to be your nearest and dearest?
I think we really shouldn't be so judgmental about not have photos
I very politely disagree
when it is completely impossible for somebody to find you here?
This makes no sense. It's extremely easy to find people on this site. The first thing I did when I joined this site was to do a search and glance through the list of all active profiles in my region. Surely that's pretty common?
Just give it a rest with the judgmental, self-righteous nonsense. It gets old really fast. How about this: I'll worry about my photo and whether I want to be anonymous, and you can worry about your photo and whether you want to be anonymous. OK?
@CuddleMeLater you kinda started the contentiousness on this thread by writing that I “have some pretty weird ideas”. That definitely felt like a pretty focused attack. I’m just sayin’ 🤷🏼♀️
@CuddleMeLater - Nobody will find you here unless they visit this website...then they'll be just as guilty of being on a cuddle site.
@Importance I’m sorry if you felt like it was an attack. That wasn’t my intent.
However, there’s a big difference between thinking someone is mistaken and explaining why (which is what I feel I did with you) vs saying someone is doing something bad that makes them a creep, and that other people in their life are supposedly judging them for it (which is what @CuddleDuncan is doing).
I don’t remember cuddle Duncan calling you bad or a creep or even judging you. I don’t think he is judging you at all. I think he just wants something different for this website. But that’s just my perspective. Maybe I’m confused
This isn't the only time @CuddleDuncan has brought up his problems with people without profile photos. It's a recurring thing.
Here are a couple things he said in this thread:
It is noticeable that the people who say things like that are always men with no photo. All these people regarded you as a client. Possibly quite a lucrative client. They all regarded you as the type of person who doesn't have a profile photo.
All these people regarded you as a client. Possibly quite a lucrative client. They all regarded you as the type of person who doesn't have a profile photo.
He believes that I have negative attitudes about women or about pro cuddlers, and that these attitudes are typical of men without profile photos. He also believes that the pros I've seen lied to me about their feelings in order to make more money off me, and that they thought poorly of me because I have no profile photo. He thinks there is a certain "type of person who doesn't have a profile photo" and that these people "hiding in the shadows" and are sneaky or creepy.
It's all a bunch of judgmental, presumptuous nonsense. @CuddleDuncan doesn't know the first thing about me, my relationships with pros or anyone else, and he should mind his own business.
I see what cuddle Duncan is describing as patterns, not judgments.
Edit: if cuddle Duncan said that I see this pattern therefore these are bad people. That would be a judgment.
So when he used the phrase "the type of person who doesn't have a profile photo", what do you think he thinks is that type of person?
More specifically, when he said of the pro cuddlers I've seen that "They all regarded you as the type of person who doesn't have a profile photo," (as a reason for why he believes they weren't honest with me), what do you believe that CuddleDuncan believes those pros thought about me?
Well see... now you are asking me to make judgments. 😉
I love all the opinions on here, it definitely shows different povs that I haven't thought of. I haven't been scammed (thank heavens) or done any myself but I do require some form of deposit when booking a session. I'm new but not that new(took a break, came back). But I also model (not ig model) and I treat this as what I do with modeling. If I get booked for a model gig , a deposit has to be paid that way I know their serious and not just in my inbox or email wanting to waste time or if they go ghost and I've cleared my schedule for that gig, then I'd still have some form of income from the time wasted. The same goes for my sessions on here when I have them.
LOL @Importance !