Developing a safe Midwest network for nonprofessional woman cuddlers

Comments

• imlittlespoon99

  January 2021

  Let me follow up by saying if you are a male that can be trusted, please respond. Tell me why. What steps do you take for your safety and to make sure your cuddle partner feels safe and non-threatened?
• squeakytoy (deleted user)

  January 2021

  Good post! I strongly believe women should keep each other in the know about guys who try to push our boundaries. It's the best way we can keep each other safe.

  I'm also really sorry about your experience. This is why we can't have nice things.
• cuddlestogive (deleted user)

  January 2021 edited January 2021

  @imlittlespoon99 I'm glad to see a post like this from a woman perspective. I actually posted on this subject within the last week. The predators on this site make it extremely difficult for those of us who seriously want a cuddle and nothing more. I would LOVE to see a way women could network with each other on this subject! My suggestion would be to contact other women within 100 miles of you. That may sound far, but many men will travel AT LEAST that far for a cuddle. Talk to each other. If you have a bad cuddle, for legitimate predatory reasons, not because you didn't "click" or something, spread the word! That will go a long way towards shutting down some of these men who are on here for the wrong reasons.

  While it would be nice to be able to report a profile for these reasons, it's like you said, they'll just make a new one and come back. But at least more of it could be avoided with the networking with other members.

  If a guy says something about possibly getting aroused before you ever cuddle, I would see that as a red flag right off the bat. Especially if he says he'll "just take care of it" while he's with you. Or if he asks about what could happen if things get "a little intense" or something along those lines. Another red flag.

  As far as steps I take, it's more of a vetting process where we talk A LOT before a cuddle. Chatting back and forth through the forum is a good start. Then, once comfortable, you set up a meeting for coffee for a face to face. At least that way you can get a feel for them through their body language and how they speak. Boundaries are discussed MULTIPLE times during the whole process to make sure everything is clear BEFORE it ever gets to a cuddle. While I know it isn't foolproof, you should at least have a good idea whether the person if worthy of your time, energy and cuddles. At least that's worked for me so far. I'm always open to other suggestions on how to make BOTH of us feel safe before an actual cuddle.
• respectful

  January 2021

  @imlittlespoon99 "If you are a male that can be trusted, please respond. Tell me why."

  I really value being trusted and seen as a safe man. Trust is a gift that can only ever be given freely, so it means a lot to me. Without a feeling of safety and trust there can't be the kind of environment I'm looking for in a cuddle anyway, where there is an emotional closeness as well as a physical one -- where we can both let down our guard and have a genuine connection. If we both trust each other about boundaries then it's also a perfect environment to be playful and have lots of fun too.

  Men who push boundaries have no idea what they are missing.
• squeakytoy (deleted user)

  January 2021

  @respectful Thanks for this! Well said.

  Men who push boundaries have no idea what they are missing.

  
• imlittlespoon99

  January 2021

  Never truer words when it comes cuddles. @respectful
  "Men who push boundaries have no idea what they are missing."

  What an opportunity they are missing out on. Relationships are far more longer lasting and cherished than sex.

  @cuddlestogive I appreciate your process. Amazing connections and friendships can develop with the right kind of foundation.
• Duryea (deleted user)

  January 2021

  @cuddlestogive I like your vetting process. I've heard a few people also use video chatting along with messaging here before they meet in person.
  Personally, I think there Must Be NO rush what so ever to meet the first few times. As others have said both parties must be completely at ease with each other. I don't think there can be any cuddling unless both people feel safe with each other. And feeling safe doesn't happen over night, it happens over time. So take the time and always follow your gut instinct.
  As far as a way for women or just people in general to flag potential predators, yes it would be great to be able to identify them so others can stay away from them.
• Andy1996

  January 2021

  For me, I always ask the person I am with if they are OK while we are having this session. I also require a video chat or voice called before meeting with both enthusiast and pros
• Maverick07

  January 2021

  I second that @respectful, couldn't say any better and more clear. I'm still pretty new to this site and sometimes I wonder if I'll find someone to cuddle just for the mutual experience, without the person being there just because is getting paid. I think an initial contact in a public place, or via videochat could be a good starting point for both parts feel that it could happen or not. Personally, it's hard to figure out someone's intentions just reading the profile or exchanging text messages.
• LyleLuvsHuggles

  January 2021 edited January 2021

  I also insist on messaging then at least a call usually more than one unless it's that VERY rare call that ends up going on four HOURS (I HATE being on the phone so that tells me a lot right there lol)

  The first meeting is always somewhere public with people around (as my profile says I like IHOP or similar places for first meetings that way even if we don't click hey we had a pleasant meal and some coffee,tea,etc and hopefully some friendly conversation) and I will happily show you my current, valid state issued I.D. so you know who I am.

  The first meeting isn't about cuddles just getting a feel for eachother, though light hand holding may be exchanged if we are BOTH comfortable with it as a way to see if we even like touching eachother.

  We can then discuss if we have a next meeting or set up a time to chat about it if preferred either way the next step is restating the boundries and expectations of our cuddle session BEFORE it happens!
  This does not mean we won't go over them yet again at the start of the actual session. It's just to ensure we are on the same page and no one can say they didn't know the bounds and limits.
• sunnysideup

  January 2021 edited January 2021

  It really is true that the few jerks ruin it for all. I feel because of this many women view all men under high scrutiny because of previous negative experiences. Despite this, there will always be that bunch that will lie to get what they want. I think that the guys with lower social skills/small talk get hit the hardest by this scrutiny, even if their intentions are good. It sucks, but I understand we all do what we can to protect ourselves.

  My profile reaffirms boundaries on the first line.

  I recommend making sure proper boundaries are confirmed in chat. I usually suggest that we video chat, or meet first at a public area like a coffee shop. This can be arranged without sharing phone numbers if she feels more comfortable that way.

  If all goes well, and we’d like to meet again for a cuddle, I ask for consent before any physical contact is made. I also ask what her preferences are, and to let me know if she’s ever uncomfortable.
• creedhands (deleted user)

  January 2021

  There are a couple things I do in addition to some of great things already said here. I set up our first cuddle as a two hour session with an open ending if desired. Usually the first hour is the "getting used to each other" stage. By the second hour, you are just getting into the comfortability stage. However, if you are just not clicking for some reason, the end is in sight. If all is good, there is the potential to extend the meeting.

  Also, I always let my partner lead. I never know what may be a trigger point, so I let the woman decide what places or positions to cuddle in. ( I once had a partner leave a session early because I accidentally grazed her eyebrow with my hand.) The first meeting can be always like an old married couple. "Where do you want to eat?" "I dunno. Where do you want to go?" Whole internally, they are trying to give deference to their partner, no decision is being made. As a woman, I would come prepared with certain positions in mind. Don't be afraid to be seeing in suggesting positions. A good guy will go along unless there is a legit reason ("I'm not that flexible", etc.)

  If you get on YouTube and search cuddle positions, you will find a bunch of detailed suggestions.
• cuddlestogive (deleted user)

  January 2021

  Just another tip for women vetting potential cuddles... until you know this person well and have cuddled at least a couple of times, it would be wise NOT to give them your actual phone number. There are plenty of "burner" apps out there that you can download on your phone. You can still talk and text, but if they get pushy or out of line in any way, you can "burn" that number and get another. It's just one more line of defense you can put in place. It's way too easy to find someone now just from their phone number.
• squeakytoy (deleted user)

  January 2021 edited January 2021

  I think that the guys with lower social skills/small talk get hit the hardest by this scrutiny, even if their intentions are good.

  I don't agree with this. When I used to cuddle and date men, I met plenty of shy and awkward guys, and plenty of guys with confidence. I judged both types on how they treated me.

  Some of the guys with lower social skills jumped to the conclusion that I'd rejected them because they were awkward, but the actual reason would be something like... they treated me like a dating sim character, referred to other women using terms like "chicks", openly complained about women being too choosy and paranoid (aka. hinting at a mindset of entitlement toward women), constantly interrupted me and didn't apologize, stuff like that. Same crap as the confident men, but just with less confidence. Some of the nicest cuddles I've had were with a respectful shy man I met on here.

  I think instead of assuming women are judging them solely based on social ability, shy men should stop and think about their attitudes toward women. Those attitudes will come out in some shape or form, verbal or nonverbal, and women tend to be good at picking up on them.
• CuddleDuncan Mod

  January 2021

  It really is true that the few jerks ruin it for all.

  I'm afraid that's not quite right. Firstly, there are more than a few: a lot more. Secondly, in the US at least there are entire sections of society that still regard women as inferior in some way.

  It's not a few rotten apples: it's a structural thing. Remember, the previous Vice President truly believes that it's inappropriate for a woman do to any job that might involve a meeting with a politician. For example, journalist, senior civil servant, senior military, etc.

  Another example of the structural problem is all the men who have posted in this thread on topics other than "Developing a safe Midwest network for nonprofessional woman cuddlers". You all think the posts you made were ok. In and of themselves they were, and of course this is an open forum, anybody can post wherever they want. But to make posts like these in a thread like this is to ignore the background of what the thread is about.

  If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.
• mtp

  January 2021 edited January 2021

  Another example of the structural problem is all the men who have posted in this thread on topics other than "Developing a safe Midwest network for nonprofessional woman cuddlers".

  @CuddleDuncan Did you overlook @imlittlespoon99's followup request?

  Let me follow up by saying if you are a male that can be trusted, please respond. Tell me why. What steps do you take for your safety and to make sure your cuddle partner feels safe and non-threatened?

  Edit: To avoid going offtopic myself, my contribution:

  Demonstrating patience is probably the most important thing I can do. I enjoy many forms of touch; why rush into situations that require a great deal of vulnerability for either of us? Start small with things like simple hand holding, and only after explicitly agreeing to it. Encourage direct communication, no matter how corny it might seem. Discuss how we felt about meeting up after we've gone our separate ways and had a chance to mentally process how it went.

  Another thing I could potentially do (but haven't tried yet): offer to initially meet someplace where I would have a lot to lose if I behaved badly. For me, that would ideally be a dance; not only is it a public event with organizers specifically looking out for everyone's safety, but it is a place where I would have a lot to lose if I behaved badly. Word gets around in the dance community if someone makes others feel unsafe, and I would be devastated if dancers started shunning me and organizers started banning me from their events. Not that I need such an incentive, of course, but the point would be to provide extra reassurance to a potential future cuddle partner about my intentions until we know each other well enough to judge for ourselves.
• sunnysideup

  January 2021 edited January 2021

  @squeakytoy Thank you for raising this perspective. You're right about that part, there definitely shy guys that are part of a weird subculture and similarly adopt an unrealistic, and entitled, approach toward women. And it's good that you were able to pick up on it and save yourself a lot of trouble. I made an over generalization which was not entirely accurate. But you do hear of decent guys that are not the most social perpetually have trouble with women, without any of the weird misogynistic stuff. I've seen one such case in my own experience. And I don't mean the guys that continually help out their female friend with the expectation that she will return the favor romantically, then get bitter about it when she doesn't. That is creepy and entitled. Perhaps there's something I'm blind to, but from what I could see these guys didn't have any vocal misogynistic tendencies. And when my some of my female friends hang out with some of my more introverted male friends, they say they get weird vibes, even if I know they're nice people. This happens usually if they are rather introverted people. I know that people find quiet people weird in general, but it seems from my experience that women were quicker to judge/feel repulsed by shy guys that are not good at small talk.

  @CuddleDuncan I didn't know that about the VP, but it's not too surprising. Our last president said not too long ago that it would be a very bad idea to marry a woman that has her own career, which is such a gross thing to say. You're right that misogyny is a structural problem that has its roots in our culture. I was referring more specifically to boundary pushers, like in the case of what littlespoon experienced (since you can be misogynistic, but not necessarily be someone who would ever sexually assault another person). If what you're saying is that if a society harbors misogynistic views, this leads to sexual assault of men on women, then in that way it's not just the criminals, but the people who support the current culture. That makes sense to me. Though I don't understand the rationale of people who sexually assault others. I would think their parents/family and friends have the most influence in this regard. I definitely take stance to speak out against anything I think would make women uncomfortable in my social circle, since I think that's the best, most direct impact we can easily make. Cultural misogyny is definitely a factor, though like I said I don't understand it so I'm sure there are other factors.

  Edit - sorry for getting off topic. Can remove this post if necessary.
• StLJim (deleted user)

  January 2021 edited January 2021

  Ironically the thing I don't/won't do in the trust building phase is the thing you're asking us men to do now. Which is to tell you how safe we are. I can't do that - you have to decide that based on the interactions we're having. How do I come across to you? Hopefully as authentic, and respectful of not just boundaries but of crossing the line of defining you as a woman in some patronizing, self serving way.

  Or I can overtly define myself to you as some sort of honorable gentleman. Those can be just words. You've got to not just hear me, but SEE me for who I am. Read between the lines. Decide for yourself about me from our conversations. And if you sense that I'm overtly trying to program you with thoughts and messages saying I'm safe then maybe that should be a red flag. Maybe not a show stopper, but as part of the overall evidence about me - the puzzle that I am until I come into focus and you can find some organic semblance of trust and safety in me. If I'm rushing that... there's another red flag, but not a show stopper.

  Where women are concerned for my safety - ie watching for red flags. When things constantly change.... where we start with easy, safe assumptions, and that changes in 3 min or two messsages later, and then it changes again, and maybe yet again. That's red flag time for being hustled. That often ends in add on costs, and any number of plays. Sometimes the woman is poor at having a clear business model if you're a professional cuddler, or just having a crappy, well defined marketing message (which isn't always just your hourly rate and the bundles you offer).

  I don't know how problematic men behave just because I'm a man. To a degree, yes. But on the attack side? No, I've never known a man to openly talk about attacking women. Never. I presume anyone who's playing a scam building up to taking physical advantage of a women uses a script of being progressively aggressive, and it's probably learned and primal behavior. Just my guess. Put the puzzle together and watch for the complete big picture message as it builds.

  I don't think these people are very sophisticated so I don't believe they're super slick. They're smash, grab and run types. They surely give off signs all along the way even if it's hiding from you until the last minute (that's kind of a red flag to me). At some point they're feeling you out to judge your vulnerability. Maybe not. I don't walk in your shoes. NOR am I blaming anyone. None of us should have to put with all the crap that comes with certain aspects of life (or really, just about anything and everything in life in some way or another).

  I'm remembering that years ago I was accosted by a man - a guy in a bear suite who was mascot for a TV station. It was a fund raiser, and I was standing near a doorless closet - probably where they stacked chairs or tables. He walked right up to me, pushed me into the closet and pinned me against the wall while he shoved his rear end against me and started grinding me. It happened so fast, and it was so weird I had no reaction to it for a couple seconds till I shoved him away and kicked him as hard as I could. I heard him chuckling. Called the TV station the next business day at least they heard from me.