Ladies, have your instincts ever been wrong?

Cuddle_RNCuddle_RN
in General

I first met with and cuddled a man from here several weeks ago, at the movies. From the beginning, I was questioning if he was trying to touch my boobs. It was very very subtle though, the type of thing where maybe he was just resting his hand on my arm and the side of his hand was making accidental contact.

However, my suspicions were confirmed when I had to remove his hand from a non-platonic area and issue a "keep it platonic" at about the 3rd or 4th movie cuddle. He later stated that I hit a spot and got him all turned on. I had to remove him from my circle of trust (Meet the Parents anyone? 😁).

In thinking back over all of this, I'm wondering if I should have just gone with my initial instinct, which was - If I think he's trying to touch my boobs, most likely he is. Ladies, have your instincts ever been wrong in a similar situation? Have you ever decided to keep cuddling with someone in spite of a little bit of an "uh-oh" feeling, and it turned out he really was a Good One? Or is it always - nah girl, go with your gut!

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Comments

  • CatloafCatloaf

    @woodRN I've rarely been wrong about my gut feeling as a cuddler, hell, even just in relationships and connections in general. But there have been a couple times where I assumed too much of someone's motive. I remember when I was sent a shirtless black and white photo of a client on my application form, and I wasn't sure if it was to try and get me to do something outside my boundaries, or what. But here's the thing, this guy had been relatively obese for a lot of his life and wasn't happy with it, started a health and fitness journey, and after a couple of years with Jym Supplements he was close to ripped and so proud of the work he had done. We ended up talking about our experiences with body image and weight loss intermittently throughout our time together. The photo was tasteful (professional photography) and while I was kind of like, "Eh, let's see how cuddling with ol' shirtless goes", I'm glad he shared that with me as part of his explanation of why he was looking to cuddle - he wanted to experience cuddling in his "new" body. That's an accomplishment that he deserved to be proud of and scream from the rooftops.

    Anyway, long rant about this former client is over, but the point is, sometimes the gut can be wrong. Sometimes things are nuanced, or our past experiences actually colour a bit of our perceptions (and therefore our actions) going forward. I try not to let the bad eggs make me overly suspicious of people, I just wait for obvious enough red flags to show, I communicate the boundary, and if it's not respected after I've done that the first time, I move on.

  • GoldfishfanGoldfishfan

    If it looks, walks/talks/acts like a weirdo, you probably have a weirdo on your hands (no pun intended) but if somebody does do something a little questionable/concerning, stop what you’re doing, put on your best “oh no she dint” face and say something to the effect of “you really finna disrespect me like that?” quickly follow it up with a stern “you know exactly what you did” and pause to look them dead in the face for at least three full seconds while they’re most likely lookin like a deer in headlights thinking they’ve been busted (if your suspicions are true) then nonchalantly resume the activity and if the behavior changes then there’s a 74-91% chance your instincts were correct.

  • [Deleted User]DeadGirlWalking (deleted user)

    I haven't met anyone for cuddling, but my instincts have been absolutely correct about someone before in another scenario. Stupid thing is that I was too young/naive and awkward to know how to extricate myself from the situation, I didn't want to be rude, and I didn't want to upset him because I didn't know what he'd do.

    Makes me wonder how many women have been socialised to 'not cause a scene' and have been subliminally taught that their safety and comfort is less important that bruising a man's ego.

  • littermatelittermate

    @BuggleBear Bruising a man's ego can turn into a woman getting bruised or even shot these days, so um, yeah.

    I trust myself 100%. I figure the ones I might lose because I was wrong are worth heading anything I'm not interested in fielding off at the pass. I err on the side of trusting myself because, well, I'm darn trustworthy, and I think it's compensating for the level to which I've been socialized to doubt myself.

    Something feels funny, I steer clear. I'm not THAT in need of a cuddle that I need to spend time wondering.

    So far I have had no groping.

  • [Deleted User]DeadGirlWalking (deleted user)
    edited March 2021

    @littermate, sadly I know that all too well. I'm actually really reluctant to meet a man to cuddle because of my past experiences. I'm not a good judge of character and I don't want to be in a bad situation again.

    It's not all men, but it's enough men, and I don't know which men it is.

  • MelancholyMelancholy

    I've had many cuddle buddies tell me they could tell I was safe within a few minutes of spending time with me.
    Not everyone gives me that chance though but enough do, that I've been able to get enough cuddling to make life bearable. :)

  • littermatelittermate

    @Bugglebear I hear you. In the name of "being fair" we can totally miss out on developing our own instincts. So I say, err on the side of unfair. Consider waiting until you feel so safe that you're easily willing to take the risk. Consider taking as long as you need. Do whatever you need to do. I message a while on here. I have tea. I'm feeling all the time, in my body. What is my body saying? I have practiced this a while and it takes a while to revive one's instincts and to be able to use them to discern things. The head will argue us out of our instincts, oh be nice, oh he's fine, oh you're imagining things, but the body over time will speak to you if you listen.

  • UKGuyUKGuy

    If ladies instincts were always correct, there would be less domestic violence and the divorce rate would not be so high.

  • CrizRCrizR

    I think it's somewhat arrogant to think that your instincts are always correct.

    However if you feel uncomfortable or suspicious with someone, I think you should respectfully and calmly voice your concerns as well as explicitly stating your boundaries or where you would or wouldn't want to be touched. I think removing that ambiguity would be best for all parties involved.

  • PippyPippy

    If anyone touches you outside your comfort zone, you do not have to continue to cuddle with them whether money was involved or not. Just be sure to state your boundaries.

  • [Deleted User]DeadGirlWalking (deleted user)
    edited March 2021

    @Melancholy no, it doesn't work like that. Do you not think that perhaps women start cuddling with someone who they think is safe who then turns out to not be? Does it not occur to you that a lot of the women who are raped or sexually abused by friends or boyfriends initially thought that person was 'safe' to be around? Regardless of how safe someone feels around someone else, there is often misplaced trust. Like I said, it's not all men, but it is most women.

    @CrizR it's 'somewhat arrogant' to think that your opinion is needed here. Not everything is for men, you know? OP clearly addressed women. Also, if you think that there is any kind of 'ambiguity' in a situation, you err on the side of caution and assume she DOESN'T want to be groped. That's just common sense.

    @UKGuy that absolutely came off as victim-blaming, and that's not OK. Maybe if men were raised to not hit the women they were in any kind of relationship with, there would be less domestic abuse. Just a thought.

    @crony I'm happy that it's so easy for you to say that.

  • Cuddlestogo64Cuddlestogo64

    I have met men in person for coffee, to get to know them. My intuition, or instincts, let me know right away, do not proceed with this person. I do not question my instincts, I listen to it. I do not proceed with seeing them (him) again.

    Instincts are there for a reason, they keep me out of harms way.

  • [Deleted User]squeakytoy (deleted user)

    Goddamn it! We were doing so well. :tired_face:

  • [Deleted User]DeadGirlWalking (deleted user)
    edited March 2021

    @squeakytoy how would we cope if a man didn't insert himself into a conversation uninvited? The world would spin off its axis and we'd hurtle into the sun. Did you not know that we revolve around the massive gravitational pull of the cishet male ego? 😏

  • [Deleted User]Mmart (deleted user)

    I was going to say something here but I don't duck as well as I used to.

  • littermatelittermate

    Hahahaha women. Hilarious.
    Love,
    The Arrogant One
    PS I'll be sure to post here the first time a groper gets by my radar for all of you threatened by my astounding confidence bordering on strutting cockiness. So unseemly in a female. Makes you want to take me down a peg doesn't it?

  • CatloafCatloaf

    Having good instincts may help you choose a better partner, but it is not a defense against DV. DV happens because someone was taught at some point that physical violence is an appropriate reaction to conflict. Putting the onus on the non-offending partner for not being able to tell that their partner is abusive (especially when most abusive relationships don’t seem abusive at first) is quite disgusting. I didn’t expect to see victim blaming come up in this thread but there it is. 🙄

  • [Deleted User]Mmart (deleted user)

    @squeakytoy Funny meme.

  • littermatelittermate

    I've found that I've been conditioned to ignore my instincts and as I've started developing them, basically by listening to my body, I've found an uncanny capacity to know all kinds of things from the feel of them. Animal instinct. Evolution is a wonderful thing.

  • [Deleted User]squeakytoy (deleted user)
    edited March 2021

    LOL @littermate :joy: How dare you talk about your actual life experiences! They don't line up with men's speculations, which means they can't possibly be true!

    @UKGuy Plenty of women don't listen to their instincts (this has already been mentioned by two female commenters). Most of us are socialized to be accommodating and not make a scene, and will make justifications and excuses for guys showing predatory behavior. So no, I don't think we can automatically blame women's instincts for high domestic violence rates and high divorce rates. Not helpful.

    @crizR @crony Before you give women advice on this topic, here's what you should do: arrange several cuddle sessions with guys who are significantly bigger and stronger than you, and who are also attracted to men, and see how long your advice holds up. I'm only half-joking on this one.

    Decent guys don't need to be told not to grab your tits or try to kiss you if you met them off this site. It's not rocket science to assume that if you're meeting someone off CuddleComfort, it's for platonic reasons, and you should ask before attempting anything that would not be platonic. This shit doesn't happen because a woman is "ambiguous" or "hasn't stated their boundaries clearly enough". This shit happens because some guys are predators, plain and simple. Finding ways to blame women for predators' actions, or imply in any way that "if the woman had just said something different, or said something differently, etc the man wouldn't have assaulted her" helps nobody but the predators.

  • [Deleted User]Mmart (deleted user)

    @littermate
    I am glad you have learned to listen to your body. Guys on the other hand often have to fight off what their body is suggesting to them. Also, animal instinct?
    BTW what fun stuff might one do in Lawrence?

  • SideonSideon

    To the men reading and responding on this thread:

    Women are providing their experiences and collective wisdom here. If that's not obvious to you, I'm not going to provide cover for their justified fury.

  • [Deleted User]Mmart (deleted user)

    Enjoying this continuous education.

  • [Deleted User]DeadGirlWalking (deleted user)
    edited March 2021

    @Mmart if guys have to 'fight off' what their body is suggesting to them then they shouldn't put themselves in situations where they are a threat to women. We are NOT RESPONSIBLE for men not being able to control themselves.

    @squeakytoy I literally cannot applaud that response any louder. You can probably hear me from there.

    If anyone else is still not sure how this works- we DO NOT victim blame. We DO NOT tell women that they 'should have communicated their boundaries better' when they are attacked by men. We DO NOT support men who claim to be 'nice guys', because 99% of the time, they aren't. An actual nice, decent human being does not have to TELL people they are a nice, decent human being. If anyone has a problem with anything I have said, then you need to take a good long look at why you think I'm wrong. If you still don't understand, then I am absolutely happy to explain it to you, in very, very small words.

  • [Deleted User]Mmart (deleted user)

    @BuggleBear
    Men getting aroused is a natural thing and yes we sometimes have to manage it.

  • [Deleted User]squeakytoy (deleted user)

    Thanks @BuggleBear! Seriously, it's always the same old play in a new theater. I'm always happy to call it what it is.

    And @Sideon thank you so much for having our backs. I can't even describe what a huge difference it makes in the overall feeling of safety of this community, at least for me, that a moderator listens to us and takes us seriously.

  • CatloafCatloaf
    edited March 2021

    @Mmart I feel like managing your arousal is different than getting aroused, and making next to no effort to reduce it in situations where it's not warranted. A lot of men make no effort to reduce it and then they blame the woman for "continuing" to arouse him. Arousal is natural yes. What isn't natural is rubbing up on someone, or making subtle, guilt-inducing comments when you are aroused and someone is not willing to relieve it for you. That's not okay.

  • [Deleted User]Mmart (deleted user)

    @Catloaf
    I am in total agreement with you. You said it much better than I did.

  • Cuddle_RNCuddle_RN

    Oh my. I have a much younger regular overnight cuddle partner who knows how to conduct himself properly. I'm hoping he will chime in here and provide some much needed education.

    Thank you to all the women who have spoken, and to the men who understand.

  • littermatelittermate
    edited March 2021

    @Mmart 7 mile loop by river that can be biked or walked, the ping pong table in my garage (the site of your impending doom), a vibrant downtown with all kinds of outdoor dining options, and me. Plus lots of stuff I haven't discovered. It's kinda like Boulder in the 80s.

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