@littermate Ok, sounds like I might need a few days there. The ping pong thing could turn very ugly for you. I just defeated my grandson two out of three on his 7th birthday. That should be enough to put fear into your paddle.
I feel like this is a conversation you two could have in private out of respect for the OP and the women that have shared their experiences on what is a very sensitive and serious topic. Let's not have another derailed thread.
Have my instincts ever been wrong? I doubt it, but that's impossible to know; as when I listen, I'm not around for things getting bad.
What I DO know, is every time I tried to rationalize that voice to silence, I regretted it deeply. Painfully. Embarrassingly. Expensively.
@BuggleBear @squeakytoy and @Sideon Thank you for what you do
Either the men didn't read the title or there are more ladies here than I originally thought. XD
Thanks @BuggleBear.
instincts have never failed me. if anything, my intuition has gotten stronger for me. lol
@MaullySterling @littermate 💜
[I didn't see the option to delete posts but I don't want to deal with drama. I said what I said and it is what it is]
@CrizR I had a feeling you'd be unapologetic and dismissive. Not surprised, just disappointed I was right.
Add one to the tally for women's intuition, gals
Also, can I just say I adore every woman who has posted here? Thank you all so much for sharing your experiences.
@BuggleBear Thanks again for the friendly reminder.
@CrizR 'I said what I said and it is what it is'
This is the kind of attitude I expect from someone who doesn't understand or respect what women go through on a daily basis. I'm glad you can be so blasé about something that is a very real, ever present threat on women's lives and safety.
'It is what it is' because not enough men think about their actions, or call out their friends on their actions. In a society that turns the other way when women are being abused and attacked, and when men (and women with issues of internalised misogyny) discredit their experiences, is it any wonder the cycle is perpetuated? This is not the era of allowing men to get away with this toxic behaviour, to just shrug and say 'it is what it is', or 'boys will be boys'. No, boys will be held accountable for their actions.
'It is what it is' because men don't care enough about women to help them, they'd rather just be silent bystanders, and by this point it's common knowledge that if you aren't part of the solution you are definitely part of the problem.
Either learn more, and do better, and be an ally, or shut the hell up while those that care carry on fighting for a day when women aren't afraid to exist.
@BuggleBear I agree with what you said and appreciate the education.
Sigh. I was just trying to delete my message because I didn't want to get caught up in the drama. You guys are just bullies honestly. I didn't say or imply any of the stuff.
All I said was that no one's instincts are always right and that you should communicate if you have concerns with someone. But you guys have twisted my message towards your agenda. That's why I don't post on these forums.
Being educated on why what you said is inaccurate and hurtful is not 'bullying'.
If you didn't want to 'get caught up in the drama' you shouldn't have posted something inflammatory on a thread that wasn't here for your use or benefit in the first place. Anything that has been said to you has been a direct response to things you yourself have said, nobody is twisting your words. Don't add fuel to the fire if you can't stand the heat of the flames.
Also, the fact that you call the ever-present battle for women's safety an 'agenda' shows how misogynistic you really are.
If you don't like the responses you are getting, you need to take a good long look at why women are reacting to you in that way.
You are absolutely not the victim here.
Daaaayum @BuggleBear be over here spittin truth!
@CrizR Wild. So to recap:
By the way, and this goes out to everyone here. If you hear about women being assaulted and respond with, "she should have communicated more clearly", "she shouldn't have been walking alone at night", "she should have been dressed differently", "she should have watched her drink more closely", or anything else that places the blame on her, you're not just telling that woman it was her own fault.
You're also telling predators that when a woman doesn't do these things, she's fair game.
What did I say that was inflammatory? I truly did not intend to say anything controversial. How is saying that you should communicate is controversial? How is saying that nobody's instincts are always correct 100% percent of the time inflammatory? It's common sense.
I have no desire to be a victim here. I just have no clue why you guys are trying to make me out to be some kind of villain for making some fairly tame statements.
@CrizR Everything you're asking has already been explained at length. Just re-read what @BuggleBear and I said. I'm not gonna put in twice the effort to communicate so you can put in half the effort to understand.
@squeakytoy Exactly what I'm talking about. You and @BuggleBear brought up a ton of stuff that has little to do with what I was originally talking about. Mostly irrelevant projections that aren't related to what I actually said and have nothing to do with me.
I was honestly just giving a bland suggestion OP saying that if she keeps seeing this person who she has suspicions about then she should communicate with him about it. Her intuition may not always be correct. That's it. If you think her intuition is infallible or that communication is a bad idea then that's fine. But that's not how you've responded.
If you think that my post obvious or uninteresting, then just ignore it. It's really that simple.
@CrizR Women have repeatedly been taught to ignore their instincts; have been gaslighted, patronized, and told to consider other possibilities. So much, that we doubt ourselves and blame ourselves. Then when we give guys the benefit of the doubt, we get assaulted and blamed that we should have seen it coming or done something different or communicated better. It's a widespread women's issue that we are working to recover from.
So, if you are a guy with zero experience of being a women, chiming in on a thread directed to women who are trying to support each other, by saying the obvious and extremely unhelpful "instincts aren't always correct"... you're going to get a bit of a schooling. Then when you get defensive over the extremely intelligent, well-written education... sorry, but you are not going to get our meek little doe-eyed apologies for upsetting you.
No one here is stupid enough to say "intuition is infallible" and "communication is bad". Sounds like a straw man statement that sidesteps the greater argument.
@BuggleBear @squeakytoy @littermate Thank you for taking on the education. You're so amazing!!
@xelda I don't expect an apology from anyone.
So my statement wasn't just that instincts can't be trusted but also that communication can help. It's a two part statement. And it certainly isn't inflammatory in any context. If it's unhelpful, that's fine. No need to launch any attacks, just ignore it.
Now I shouldn't have responded in the first place as the thread was directed at women. I responded right away after reading OPs post and it slipped my mind that this was a ladies only thread. But apparently I can't or don't know how to delete my posts here, so I guess I was stuck with that. I'll apologize for that, since I shouldn't have responded in the first place.
As for education, there was very little taught, particularly of what was relevant to what I said. Just mostly mud slinging in my direction. I guess I learned that there are a lot of cynical people who try to interpret others posts in the worst way possible so they gang up on them and villainize them. But I already new that from lurking these forums for a while.
@CrizR
But apparently I can't or don't know how to delete my posts here, so I guess I was stuck with that. I'll apologize for that, since I shouldn't have responded in the first place.
Posts can't be deleted by anyone but the mods. You could edit it, but the window for that is 24 hours.
Sorry that you feel you had mud slung in your direction. I see that you're at least acknowledging that this thread was directed towards the input of women, so thank you for doing that. I think it's easy for folks to become frustrated while trying to educate others on the issues that women go through. This is because we as women (as are you men, often) are so tired of the daily BS that we have to go through, and trying to find a space that allows for equity of our voices in everyday life. I certainly relate to a lot of the frustration, being that I tend to share my experience, and then I'm told how else I should have experienced it.
I think that people were upset not because you're male, but because you made a general statement that was sort of common sense, and it also put more onus on the non-offending party, which in this case, would be a woman. Sometimes we as women can communicate as much as we want, and a man will never understand that communication, or just outright ignore it. This is a topic that requires a very deep dive rather than surface level suggestions of how a woman's particularly harrowing experience can be avoided.
@CrizR did you post on a thread directed to ladies? Then despite what you said or not you got yourself into this drama that didn't involve you unfortunately. So it's not bullying here just input from ladies was asked from the start so WE can share our experiences without the men. And no I didn't read what you wrote but just noticed you pushing back from drama you placed yourself in really fast. No hard feelings here.
There was no 'mud-slinging', there was explanation. You taking offense is not the same as what I said being offensive. I'm sure anyone reading this thread would be hard-pressed to find any 'bullying' or 'mud-slinging' coming from me or anyone else here.
If you didn't learn anything from us that's fine, it's not a woman's responsibility to educate a man on how to be a decent person.
If you still don't understand the problems with what you have said, and your reaction to having this explained to you rationally and calmly is to claim you are being victimised here, then I suggest you either extricate yourself from this situation/thread or leave the website entirely. Clearly you are too fragile to be here if you can't stand having things explained to you without bemoaning that 'this is why you don't comment on the forums'.
If you're going to have a debate with people that know more than you do on a subject, prepare to be told why you are wrong. If you then insist that those people are the problem for explaining to you why what you have said is problematic, that is a MASSIVE red flag.
@CrizR Just FYI, there's no way for a non-moderator to delete comments, so people usually work around it by editing the comment they want to delete so that it only contains a period.
Thank you for acknowledging that you shouldn't have responded here, even though you definitely still don't understand why that is. I'm willing to make one more concerted effort to help you get it, but then I'm throwing in the towel.
If you simply find something uninteresting/bland or obvious, do you get angry about it? Probably not. Guess what? Neither do we. The problem is not that your comments were uninteresting/bland or obvious. The problem is that your comment showed an attitude that is harmful to women. Hell, the rest of your comments only continue to support that.
You say there's "very little taught", but the truth is, there's a metric crapton of education in our comments to you. Unfortunately, if you skim those comments only long enough to know that we're pissed off at you, and not enough to understand why, then dismiss it all as "mud slinging", call us cynics and suggest that we wantonly gang up on innocent people and villainize them instead of having valid reasons and motivations behind our criticisms, then no amount of education will help you.
TL;DR: If you don't take our issues seriously, staying silent in our spaces is definitely your next best option.
@Catloaf I didn't intend to excuse the man who could be doing wrong and to imply that's all on the woman. Of course the dude shouldn't be trying to push her boundaries. But boundaries also have to established through communication. The guy should also communicate with her and make sure she's comfortable before trying to touch her in anyway.
Unfortunate only mods can delete posts. Not sure why users can't delete their own posts.
@amortentia Yeah I'm definitely an idiot. The fact that it was a ladies thread kinda slipped my mind when I first responded. I couldn't delete it. Then I saw responses I didn't agree with and got triggered. Should have just let it go. Would have saved me the headache.
As a side note... it might also be a good idea to look up the definition of "projection".
While I do agree that @CrizR should have read the room a little better before inserting his opinion I think it’s a little much to say he needs to leave the site. He’s done nothing to violate T.O.S and based on his profile it seems he has enough positive karma from female cuddlers to back the idea he’s not a bad person. If you want to block him , not engage or associate with him because of anything he said that’s absolutely your choice and no one will fault you from that. But I do think a line has to be drawn about telling people to leave the platform because you don’t like something they said or an opinion they have.
@hugonehugall Nobody's telling him to leave the site, as far as I can see. But feel free to point it out if I missed it. I told him it was best to stay silent in "our spaces", ie. a thread asking specifically for women's input.