Cuddlers who push the line

[Deleted User]Chris55555 (deleted user)
edited June 2021 in General

Hello Cuddle Community,
I want to address an issue I’ve had now with a couple cuddlers. I clearly outline that I follow the site rules and don’t want to push any lines. They completely agree with me. I try to pick up on any red flags (questions about clothing, comments on my body etc)

I meet the person and the first half of a two hour cuddle is respectful, but then lines start to get pushed. I sometimes redirect or laugh-off their attempt to push lines. Sometimes I request a change of positions, but they don’t always pull back their energy. It ends up that I don’t like the cuddle and end up feeling like a commodity. I don’t enjoy pressure in this way whatsoever. Sometimes it can feel like these people are so touch deprived they can’t handle themselves properly.
In these instances I choose not to cuddle the person again. I’m not sure how else to prevent this from happening. I would love to hear from other people who have had to deal with this behaviour.

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Comments

  • CatloafCatloaf
    edited June 2021

    I meet the person and the first half of a two hour cuddle is respectful, but then lines start to get pushed. I sometimes redirect or laugh-off their attempt to push lines. Sometimes I request a change of positions, but they don’t always pull back their energy.

    Redirect, but do not laugh off any attempts to push boundaries. This isn't communicating clearly; what you need to say is "No, don't touch me there," or, "Please stop doing that. If you try it again, I will leave." Remember that whether you are an enthusiast or a pro, you can leave at any time if you feel like you are being touched inappropriately and it doesn't stop with communication. You are not obligated to stay. You do not need to give people like that any more of your time.

    It ends up that I don’t like the cuddle and end up feeling like a commodity. I don’t enjoy pressure in this way whatsoever. Sometimes it can feel like these people are so touch deprived they can’t handle themselves properly. In these instances I choose not to cuddle the person again. I’m not sure how else to prevent this from happening.

    You can have empathy or sympathy for a touch-deprived person, but at the point they start inappropriately touching you where you both have agreed not to beforehand, they do not have any excuse. Some may give me flack for this and cry out, "They're just aroused! Arousal is natural and shouldn't be stigmatized like this, Catloaf!". No, that's not the point. Any issue around touch deprivation where an individual can't control themselves and how they touch others should be dealt with by a trained therapeutic professional, possibly in triad with a coach or cuddler. It's not our job as cuddlers to do this work, especially without background in such a field, let alone therapeutic supervision or involvement of some sort. And enthusiast cuddlers? Y'all are not getting paid for that kind of labour! Don't even think about messing with that!

    For Pros

    Sadly, it doesn't matter what preventative measures you use, you will occasionally get people like this who simply don't respect the service. What is your screening method in particular? What sorts of questions do you ask when you are trying to get to know a client before booking with them? Personally, I spend a lot of time in consultations trying to help people understand what I do, why I do it, how it can benefit them, and if I'm getting an ambiguous vibe from the person, I ask them the specific question at some point, "What do the words 'platonic touch' mean to you?" or "Are you actually wanting a platonic experience, or are you simply settling for one?" (thanks @KeeleyShoup - that last one comes from her). If they indicate in any way that they're settling, I won't book that client because I'm obviously not what they need.

    For Enthusiasts

    The same advice goes. Only you will need to be even more selective and vigilant, because enthusiast cuddlers nearly always have more foot traffic than pros. So that's more eyes and clicks on you than us, and not all of them will be good. You need to be a "pro" at screening, just like many of us are.

    Conclusion?

    People who play wolf in sheep's clothing and intend to try this frisky s#%t usually don't make it past viewing my profile. I'm "too" thorough and direct about what I offer. I believe I've left no room for interpretation otherwise. When I started putting my foot down, taking NO crap, and making it more than obvious that I'm serious about following the TOS, the problematic population stopped bothering me altogether for the most part. I would assume I occasionally get someone who probably thought they'd try something in session, but they enjoyed me holding them too much to disrespect the service. Then you have asshats who think they can touch you any way they want just because they've paid you. Or just because, and that's messed up.

    Don't play it off or offer any interpretation in your reaction. A firm NO and knowing when to leave (once with somebody) is the only preventative measure that will stop any BS at that point. If you're actually "freezing" during all this inappropriate touch, I'm so sorry. That's a natural reaction when someone is not respecting boundaries. I used to freeze and had to do a lot of work on moving past that and being able to speak up for myself.

  • bekah_cuddlesbekah_cuddles

    I hear you. Unfortunately, it's quite common and I've experienced this more often than not. It's easy to think you can say "no" once firmly and they'll respect it, but I often find I have to say "no" multiple times before the session ends. I'm working up the courage to end my sessions after they disrespect the very first "no."

  • [Deleted User]Chris55555 (deleted user)
    edited June 2021

    Thank you @Catloaf for your advice. I will work on becoming more firm. I’m not a professional, and although I’m naturally confident, I’m also empathetic, so I don’t love rejecting people. I’ve even thought about not meeting any new cuddlers and just sticking with the buddies I know who respect me and never push. I’m less than 3 months into irl cuddling so I knew there had to be people further into this journey that could advise me.

  • CatloafCatloaf

    Oh my god. Wow. I thought I was on the professional cuddling forum section for a second. I need coffee clearly, because I should have checked your profile before I even responded. 🤦‍♀️ Editing my post to reflect your profile status - the advice still stands for pros who read it though and go through the same crap! Trust your damn gut, y'all!

  • [Deleted User]Chris55555 (deleted user)
    edited June 2021

    @bekah_cuddles i hear that completely. It never gets better if I discourage the first errant behaviour. I think I’m just going to have to jump up and say…I’m outta here. I’m worth so much more respect and I know it. It’s just so unnatural and I need to become comfortable with that unnaturalness.

  • Lev136Lev136

    @Chris55555

    I'm a male who has never tried to push boundaries. My suggestion is that you go over the ground rules for your cuddle before you start and if the male starts just tap him gently to tell him that he is going too far. If he continues, you have to stop the session naturally.

    If possible I would try to have a conversation with a potential cuddler on what he is expecting. If something doesn't seem right , don't cuddle with that person.

  • CatloafCatloaf
    edited June 2021

    I’m worth so much more respect and I know it.

    That's the spirit. And believe me, the people who see and will respect that worth will come forward. It takes so much time, and often a lot of trial and error, but if you choose to hang on, your chance of meeting them is so much greater. It's just sad that the trial and error is performed on our bodies and our sense of safety. Safe snuggles to you.

  • CambridgeGuyCambridgeGuy

    It’s quite disappointing (and quite worrying and irritating) that there are guys on this forum behaving like that. Whether meeting a Pro or enthusiast, it’s really important to respect boundaries. Otherwise, female cuddlers are often going to feel wary, particularly with someone new. (I’m speaking here in terms of male-female, as that is the context, but I suspect it is a concern whatever the gender pairing).

    This is a safeguarding issue, and if the behaviour of some on here causes enthusiasts or Pros to back away from cuddling, that’s a real loss to this site. I wonder whether there is or could be a private reporting mechanism here, so that if anyone does push the boundaries and won’t listen, they could be “flagged up” anonymously to admins? What happens with that info, I don’t know.

  • sillysassysillysassy

    @Catloaf SPOT ON as always!!!! PRO or Enthusiast we have such interesting responses to people pushing our boundaries. As an OLD LADY and a female enthusiast..... I used to have struggles saying no and being firm with the idea that NO is a complete sentence. It wasn't until I did a workshop with a Cuddle Facilitator that helped me see a truth that I was missing. Just because you are empathetic has no bearing on whether or not you have the right and responsibility to do what is best for YOU. Male or female, the point of cuddling in this platonic world is that we BOTH have to choose to listen and agree to the boundaries or else it is over. NO WAY am I ever again going to let someone else tell me what is good for me. That is exactly what is happening when someone tries to push the line. THEY are trying to decide what is best for you because of what they do or do not want.

    Like @Lev136 said talking about things very specifically before the cuddle and in my world, I always have coffee or iced tea with a potential because I get a very good sense of things when we have that first energy exchange. Maybe make a plan for the first cuddle to be a little bit shorter or in a place (like a movie theater) where it is EXTREMELY easy to just get up and walk out without much effort.

    You are 100% correct when you say "I think I’m just going to have to jump up and say…I’m outta here. I’m worth so much more respect and I know it." You don't have to explain yourself to anyone and if he doesn't get it then thank goodness you are done with him because that will be the first of many many many more struggles.

    @bekah_cuddles you too missy!!! YOU are worth WAY more than being disrespected. Your client list will grow because you are much needed but if you consistently let the jerks in or let them stay then you are confirming to yourself that you don't deserve better. I'm a Momma Bear when it comes to this kind of thing. It is time to take care of YOU!!!! Wait a minute..... My theme song is coming to mind. We have to take care of us (male or female) because no one else will. THAT should be our highest priority especially in the position you Pro's are in.

    I took this song and turned it into my anthem a while ago. Whatever she meant it to be I decided it is Me telling my inner sweet girl that I am going to make sure I turn the focus inward to take care of being kind to myself instead of always choosing the happiness of others to be first and foremost. We all have a different truth and different needs but I have to be reminded to not forget about being good to me too. WOW!! Long winded!!! 😂🤣😂 Sorry not sorry?

  • sillysassysillysassy

    There was also a lovely little tidbit that @quixotic_life posted (BECAUSE SHE IS AMAZING!!!)

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    As an OLD LADY and a female enthusiast.....

    How can you be an old lady if you cuddled a young man like me?

  • sunnysideupsunnysideup

    @Catloaf gave you great advice. Not sure I can really add anything of substance to it, but I second what she says. And I'm truly sorry for what you've experienced. I wish there was something more I could do more to help.

  • littermatelittermate

    @Catloaf!!! Exquisite. <3

  • CatloafCatloaf
    edited June 2021

    Thanks folks! I hate that I typed a novel about all this, y'all know I'm bad for writing novels. But this issue with people touching others where they have asked multiple times not to be touched both infuriates and empassions me. Predators gonna prey, and horny people are gonna horn, but I want others to know how to kick 'em away. Or stay away, if they can.

    This is a safeguarding issue, and if the behaviour of some on here causes enthusiasts or Pros to back away from cuddling, that’s a real loss to this site. I wonder whether there is or could be a private reporting mechanism here, so that if anyone does push the boundaries and won’t listen, they could be “flagged up” anonymously to admins? What happens with that info, I don’t know.

    @CambridgeGuy We already have a reporting system, and a very vigilant team of moderators and site administration who action these reports. Enthusiasts might not know that they can report people who refuse to respect the terms, but they do also have an Inappropriate Profile thread, which doesn't look like it gets much use outside a few times a month. That's too little for the amount of suspect stuff I've seen in my years on here.

    Pros also have methods of sharing information as a collective on individuals that we shouldn't see or that we should be wary of, but I won't go into that. The only thing cuddlers can do past that is know the site TOS, work on their skills of enforcing their boundaries. In the case of pros, training can be incredibly beneficial, even though it might not entirely rid you of people who have no intent to respect the service.

    For anyone who needs to know who you can go to if someone is misusing the site or making you feel uncomfortable, these are the usernames. It doesn't matter if you're a pro or an enthusiast. We all deserve to feel safe. But please also SEND A REPORT. It's the fastest way to get abusers of TOS off the site.

    @Mark
    @Gary
    @reurbo
    @SoulcuddlerZ
    @Sideon
    @squeakytoy

  • [Deleted User]Chris55555 (deleted user)
    edited June 2021

    @Lev136 I have not clearly gone over the rules verbally in person at a cuddle. I have done so over the phone or through messages. But I like that idea.

  • Lev136Lev136

    @Chris55555 ,

    I usually go over everything right before. I also check with my partner fir the cuddle if everything is okay with them.

    @Catloaf , may I add that all administrators and moderators will take your complaints seriously and take acrid necessary.

  • [Deleted User]Protector (deleted user)

    If I can suggest some language to use, when that happens in the middle of a session you may want to say, “Remember, you agreed this is a totally platonic session. Please respect those boundaries or I’ll have to end our session.” Reminding them of the agreement they’ve made may help a bit, along with the other great suggestions here.

  • [Deleted User]Chris55555 (deleted user)

    @Protector I think I could redirect their behaviour and say “platonic touch only” and it would work for me. I like it. Thanks

  • [Deleted User]Chris55555 (deleted user)

    @sillysassy thanks for all the advice. I also edited my profile and made sure everything matched my intentions

  • davidgfladavidgfla
    edited June 2021

    1) Its the nature of the beast. One should know how to handle it gently and directly, Or, quietly stop the session with a smile and a "I'm done, thanks".
    2) Who's actually getting cuddled? Oh, women, of course. Here in Tampa bay area, 100% are FOS BSer's.
    3) You have to have people of their word to get people to cuddle. Dosnt happen here.
    3a) Oh, except for the one sociopath I had to quietly with a smile ask to leave.......
    4b) Every person who comes at me with a Yeah, lets do this!....soon.....I have blocked
    5) Single and on the pathetic dating sites, I'll post my cuddle request there instead. This platform is bogus. You get the beast.
    7x) Like BnB hosting and house rules in a listing, the more "No"s and "DO NOT"s you have in a profile, the more and more uptight you appear. eeeeek.
    12y) Keep it happy, don't get bitchy or self righteous. eeeeek. Confrontation is anger. Anger is not part of cuddling. Quietly move along knowing the line was crossed. You set yourself up in the first place. Platonic cuddling a stranger can be a beast.
    26z) If women want to cuddle with a man, cuddle with gay guys. Your Welcome.
    52a) Two shows on Friday, early bird special discount.......

    Flagged, reviewed. Our forum rules clearly state that while debating and discussion are allowed, we do not tolerate rudeness, personal attacks, or baiting. Please re-familiarize yourself with our forum rules. You have been warned. Further comments that break our rules will result in a timeout. Thanks. -squeakytoy

  • quixotic_lifequixotic_life

    This is a great thread!

    The one note I'd like to add, is for those who have found themselves (unintentionally) across another's line. We know when we've ventured there... the other person becomes rigid, their breath changes, they pull away, they physically move your hand, start offering up or moving toward alternate positions, they use their words, etc. Whatever it is ~ We know.

    That right there is when you need to immediately move into repair mode. To do all we can to ensure repair of any damage by acknowledging we know we over-stepped, to clearly restate our understanding of the other's boundaries to them (while seeking clarification), and above all else to sincerely apologize and to not reoffend.

    Seriously, if one can't do those things, they really shouldn't be here.

    It's our job to know the other's boundaries, but to also not be so self absorbed that we miss their 'tells' or our own check in moments ("is it okay if I..." or "are you comfortable with..."), and to read the reply. "No" is "No" and a hesitant/muted "yes" is also a "No").

    Is it awkward/uncomfortable? YES! But that is what happens when one pushes a boundary.

    Do your part and hold up your end of the agreements you enter into. Hold yourself accountable. And if you can't, then leave the community until you've done the work necessary. Because this really isn't the place for you to be figuring out how to be a decent human being, or to be one who isn't.

  • [Deleted User]Chris55555 (deleted user)
    edited June 2021

    @davidgfla
    I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn’t just say I set myself up to be touched inappropriately (12y). Yes I can be angry that someone does something to my body I said no to. I have every right to be angry. And all the people on this site have every right to be angry when any person violates an agreement and uses their body for their selfish pleasure.

    I could care less if you believe I appear uptight. My body and dignity is worthy of every guideline I set. Do you have a family member who is female? How would you feel if someone felt her up against her wishes? Is she uptight then? Would you tell her “well sweetheart you don’t want to look like you are uptight…so just deal with being groped against your will?”

    It’s fully false advertising if someone says in their own words “yes I want platonic cuddling only” and then is pushing for sex.

    In the end the only way to be fully safe is not to cuddle. Perhaps that was your intended conclusion.

    And people wonder why there are so few female enthusiast cuddlers who stick around.

  • [Deleted User]Chris55555 (deleted user)

    @quixotic_life beautifully said.

    I had a cuddle who pushed a line for a moment once and quickly apologized. He never did that again. I never felt violated in the least. I felt understood and our boundaries were re-affirmed.

    I know if this is happening with me then it’s happening to many who are less outspoken than myself and might not have a space to voice their concerns.

  • JasonCuddlesJasonCuddles

    @Chris55555 it's so disappointing to read what you experience :/ I don't think I have any real advice, though I have heard that people who will try to push also can't handle taking time to meet up.

  • MCcuddles2MCcuddles2
    edited June 2021

    @davidgfla what the hell did I just read?

    It's not only illegible but seems to imply women should expect to be harassed and "take it with a smile"?

    Lol, wut?

  • CatloafCatloaf
    edited June 2021

    Single and on the pathetic dating sites, I'll post my cuddle request there instead. This platform is bogus. You get the beast.

    Yeah, that sounds like a "you" problem, buddy. Also what is "the beast"? I don't get it. Are you introducing a wrestler at the WWE or something? @davidgfla

    Like BnB hosting and house rules in a listing, the more "No"s and "DO NOT"s you have in a profile, the more and more uptight you appear. eeeeek.

    Buddy, professional cuddlers are humans, not BnBs. You don't get to use people as you please for the rented time, or imply that someone is too "uptight" for asking people not to freaking touch them in inappropriate places. People smoke crack in BnBs all the time. Does that mean they have the right and the homeowner is too "uptight" for asking people not to do shady crap on their property? People have sex all the time, we're only human. Does that mean we should be open to having sex or being touched in places we don't want to be touched?

    This is really, really faulty thinking. I'm sorry. I'm done.

  • sunnysideupsunnysideup

    @quixotic_life She's alive, haha! And well said :)

    @davidgfla if we say that platonic cuddling comes with sexual advances, and to just accept it as such, we are perpetuating abuse in society, rather than working to make it better. It encourages boundary pushers and abusers if they receive less backlash for their abuse.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel
    edited June 2021

    if we say that platonic cuddling comes with sexual advances,

    Huh? That’s like saying I platonically masturbate. You either do one or the other. As you do one it negates the other.

    Had to keep the post short. My platonic hand is tired.

  • CuddleStellaCuddleStella

    I love the reiteration of redirect folks but do not laugh it off. crossing boundaries is no laughing matter even if we try to make our cuddle buddy comfortable, we should be very clear that we do not tolerate the disrespect.

  • CatloafCatloaf

    That’s like saying I platonically masturbate.

    @FunCartel I'm sure someone has tried to make that a thing, whether on here or IRL. "Don't worry, you're my friend, so it isn't really sexual if we do this together." shudder... and now I've given myself "Don't worry, you can trust me. Just don't tell your mom" vibes from re-reading what I just wrote.

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