have mods in different areas of the world. like Europe and America.
American mods make decisions on European users that need moderating, can't interact with American users in a moderator role.
European mods make decisions on American users, can't interact with European users in a moderator role.
Though really, I think the first step is to get clarity on* the issue being solved. I take it is moderators misusing their power.... So I can brainstorm these:
1: Admin(s) holds them accountable. Moderators hold them accountable reporting if they find a mod crossing a line as well.
2: Assuming no other solution can be found, looks like for this method we'd need at least 2 well established and trusted admins that don't fraternize.
See if any improvements can be made on mod recruitment method.
With all that in place, I think there would at least be less potential for shenanigans and more accountability.
After all, if a mod was barred from more or less consensual (the discussion is trying to combat the power imbalance, so I recognize it is there) fraternization, unpaid, it is also a possibility the mod could create a fake account to bypass the system and when found, could result in the mod getting some kind of disciplinary action/ban. So either way, I don't think there's gonna be a perfect system.
And I don't think mods should hide their status from members either.
@MCcuddles2 "have mods in different areas of the world. like Europe and America.
European mods make decisions on American users, can't interact with European users in a moderator role."
That's quite interesting..., might? work. But then might have to be followed by something like* moderators in those countries not communicating outside the site?. Cause maybe much less so, though I can see the possibility for "hey bruh, that person said no" "okay I am on it". But then either way, mods might already by chance or otherwise end up having friends of theirs on the site, with potential to misuse power for their sake. Though I think for the most part, your approach has potential.
It seems a case of: "Choose your battle, cause there is not gonna be perfection."
PS. There are some good pros and cons apps to help with the decision making.
Here’s another thought/ question….is cuddle comfort a business or a hobby or something like that for ownership?
Since when is this site a democracy? People who take financial risks and put in the labor to create something as successful as this site should and do have the absolute right to run it as they see fit. No moderator or member is indispensable, and is easily replaced. Less griping more cuddling 😊
@Lucas just so there’s no misunderstanding: these risks, is it admin, pros/enthusiasts, or both, or someone else?
"Reminder - we're not allowed duplicate accounts on here, per the site rules."
But that's just a site rule, not an actual legal restriction, so it could be altered. New moderators could be given a mod account - mod1, mod2, mod3, etc, for moderator-only actions, and any cuddle-related activities would still continue on their original account.
@Lucas "Since when is this site a democracy? People who take risks and put in the labor to create something as successful as this site should and do have the absolute right to run it as they see fit. No moderator or member is indispensable, and is easily replaced. Less griping more cuddling 😊"
I'd not engage that much cause it sounds such an oversimplification of the issues at hand.
@dontremember a good deal of the discussion here has to do with trust and transparency. Having secret mods with duplicate accounts and dual identities known only to admin doesnt exactly foster trust and transparency
As a business owner in Indiana, there is far less paperwork for buying something for the business (whether a tool for a job, a TV for an employee incentive, or, as here mentioned, a cuddle for a moderator) than there is paying someone. Perhaps that is why Mark chose this "creative incentives" method.
Just my perspective. Not commenting on whether it is right or wrong. I do agree that there needs to be some sort of compensation for moderators, or switch to the aforementioned ombudsman.
The following is all based on what I've read here so far...
I have questions ~ I'm so confused... So SCZ didn't pay SR? AND got "reimbursed" as if he had paid? Because he was a mod??
And although not the practice one should employ... A mod who does integral underbelly work here, can get into it with a newbie, then delete all the exchanges so others no longer understand what those who were witness to it are talking about?? And there's no problem with that because of the role he plays in the background?
And the removed messages are just off-line and not actually deleted? Why not just put them back??
And I have opinions too...
I agree the lack of transparency can be a bit unsettling, and beginning to bond with someone only to have them deleted without knowing why is equally if not more unsettling sometimes.
For some mod accountability: How about implementing periodic peer review?
@Mark could do his own sort of standards check every 3 months or so by looking at what each mod has been accessing/doing on the backend. He could also send out a questionnaire to various users (pros, clients and enthusiasts) in good standing (perhaps choosing from those nominated by the community over a one week period), to provide a rating feedback on various things we look for in a moderator like: timeliness, objectivity, professionalism, fairness, etc. And perhaps the mods themselves could do their own self-critique so they can highlight where they believe their doing well, areas for improvement, and assess their mental health too (like do they maybe need to take a break for a bit?)
Re: Bans As far as the idea of tracking bans goes... It seems a generalized categorization system could be used and noted in the same window that comes up when clicking on a banned user such as... @______ has been banned for a transgression related to: Creating more than one account Profile Pictures Profile Content Content of private messages Soliciting illegal services Advertising/Offering illegal services Charging as a non-pro IRL conduct Forum conduct Circumventing a block General Noncompliance After Warning(s) Other (or whatever the common reasons for banning are)
Or perhaps there could be a "Banned Users" thread that put their name and date under all the applicable categories above, with the next 'bannee' added above them so the most recent to be banned was always on top.
On the idea of there being third party overseers... I don't think that's a very good idea. If we were all on the same page about all that goes on here and could easily communicate a framework for them to follow, then maybe. But as it is we bicker too much and the likelihood of people being silenced for having a counter opinion could become even higher.
And finally on mods not getting to cuddle through here...
One person screwing this up shouldn't bar others from meeting people through here. Getting cuddles is already hard enough.
How about, like with most businesses, they have to disclose to Mark when meeting with someone from the site. Then that user is sent an email about their rights and afterward they get a follow up to provide feedback, good or bad (that is only visible to Mark).
An additional idea is to have a special message visible every time one PM's a mod stating their rights and the commitments mods have agreed to uphold (along with a link to file a "for Mark's eyes only" complaint). - Kind of like the message we see for Pros but instead is Mod specific.
WOW!!! I had a fun filled day with sushi and online yugio card playing with my kiddo. (applause please for the old lady stretching her skillset) Thank you for your patience and THANK you for all the civility here!!!
@Mark thank you so much for being willing and OPEN to hearing views and letting us have a safe space to vent our frustrations and do a little brainstorming. You are amazing and as always I am thankful for your desire to create a platform for us to have these kind of connections.
I am so grateful for all of the sharing of thoughts and ideas here! I posted this morning with a heavy heart (hence the title) and a feeling that I might be just one person feeling the frustrations. Thank you for being brave enough to post your feelings and thoughts.... I know that isn't always easy. I REALLY care about this community and it hurts my heart these people who wind up hurt and turned off of cuddling because of these mishaps. (also thank you for the kind words about me)
I know that when @Mark originally came up with the idea for a cuddle site he didn't even have THIS kind of thing in mind. I can't imagine how hard the growing pains must be when there is conflict. @OhioMike mentioned quite a few different ways that this has become a larger "entity" for lack of a better word than it ever has been. @mark didn't start with a specific "business model" and a 10 year plan. What I am thankful for is his ability to see a problem and then change his course a bit to figure things out for the betterment of the community. KUDOS to you!!!!! (and hugs and chocolate chip cookies of course 😊)
@SitaRosee 100% agree If money is going out then its going out. It can be a visa card used for groceries for all we know but not in the "wink wink" cuddle therapy recoup or anything like that. If there's a good quarter then there's a bonus etc.
Cause they might as well get paid if they are going to get sent money to pay for their sessions.
@Lovelight TOTALLY nailed it here
if someone needs reimbursement for it, they aren't volunteering.
@OhioMike again.... if there are ethics questioned @mark is still paying because on the business side of things he will lose pros and clients because they won't be able to trust the site.
I was just curious how much money we are talking about vs the risk of sacrificing business ethics. 🧐
@FunCartel this makes sense. Someone who is unbiased. Like you said its challenging to ask people who are already here and a part of the cuddles to halt that in order to moderate. If they are a fan of moderating they might be very capable of figuring out the ins and outs of the cuddle world but not have a desire to connect. hmmmmm so interesting.
An ombudsman is needed for the site. Other sites have used ombudsmans. They are usually a volunteer position, third party, and unbiased.
@funcartel we should TOTALLY clone @Sideon !!! BRILLIANT AS ALWAYS!!!!! 🥰
@Big_Chris thatis something I was thinking..... If one part of the administration is doing something very contrary to another part we have no base line or reference point. All of the sudden anything seems possible. WE no longer feel like truth or justice matters. I never felt this before yesterday. EVER.
The mods here are our referees, and there is lack of solidarity between them. Worse, some actions taken are hidden away to avoid explanations. Worse still, some mods may have been complicit in abuse and if any action was taken, it was again done in secret.------ Power that is mitigated with oversight.... Can that mod erase someone's forum presence without oversight?
@MCcuddles2 I don't want to be a jerk but I don't think we can say this kind of thing.
I think what Mark meant is this:
I know you are always very thoughtful in your posts and ideas but we have to let @mark and admin say what THEY meant instead of speaking on behalf of them. I can't know what any of them meant except what THEY say they mean.
@OhioMike I absolutely 100% 3million times agree. To be a mod and then have to referee with objectivity would be challenging for me and I wouldn't want to trade moderating for cuddles. I do think that @Sideon and @squeakytoy did a GREAT job of taking care of business but this comes back around to having moderators who aren't going to be unprofessional or abuse their power.
I know it sucks but I wouldn’t trade the friendships I have made here in nearly 5 years to be a mod etc. it break my heart to have to discipline a friend I couldn’t fathom doing it
@Sideon THANK YOU so much for your input.... I guess the struggle with @gary moving his specific comments made it SEEM very shady and unreasonable. As I said earlier, we can all EDIT our "foot in mouth" comments but our image still shows up in order to keep continuity with the conversation and a clear path as to the comments that might be following. While I completely agree with you, we all make mistakes and wish we could rewind, I was saddened by this newcomer feeling so judged and in my opinion "publicly shamed" by someone in authority (especially as others have commented after his dismissive attitude of @SitaRosee) If it had just been another random member, we might have said "whoa whoa whoa, no name calling here" but that comment seemed extremely LOUD for lack of a better word. I have NEVER felt like you or @squeakytoy were being unreasonable in "bringing down the hammer" and even amidst disagreements you still managed to present objectivity and a sense of professionalism and decorum. You have also never been unwilling to admit your faults or try to HIDE them from public view. @sideon YOU ARE ALWAYS HITTING MY SILLY BUTTON!!!! 😂🤣😁
but when I do - you can be sure I'll have more disclaimers and back-up than an Arizona audit.
@mtp
Hmm...this is tricky. Maybe we just need to have enough moderators that they can (and must) recuse themselves from any moderator decisions relating to people they've met in person?
@lovelight So I think a somewhat of a solution to further consider is, a feature that allows mods'/ one and only account to return to normal member status when their 'shift' is over for the 'day/. Or on their days off. And have it so that the site perhaps differentiates the 'accounts' via color codes. .........It seems a case of: "Choose your battle, cause there is not gonna be perfection."
@lucas
Since when is this site a democracy? People who take risks and put in the labor to create something as successful as this site should do have the absolute right to run it as they see fit.
Absolutely 100% agree that the creators of this site can do whatever they want but the REASON it is successful is BECAUSE of the community that is here. You don't get to have that and then treat them poorly unless you are prepared for them all to stop supporting your business.
No moderator or member is indispensable, and is easily replaced.
That has never been how @mark presents his feelings about this community. He has spoken pretty clearly on his desire to build something that values each individual.
Less griping more cuddling 😊
I DO love the more cuddling part, but speaking only for myself I have to understand the intention behind the community I am a part of, otherwise I (and a multitude of others) wouldn't be promoting the site or the IDEA of cuddling.
@sillysassy if peace was a tangible thing it would be rain. You have become the rain and soaked the board with your peaceful positivity. You are a peaceful rainmaker.
I can only hope to be like you.
@quixotic_life You posted EXACTLY the same time I did. hahahahahha Thank you for all of your thoughtful input. I know you care about this as well. You are a beautiful human!!!
@FunCartel you..... are so so so kind to say this. We make a good team. We are all so valuable here.... All of our differences and similarities. I think I like this kind of rain.
@CharlesThePoet I think you really captured the feeling of the last few days.... Ominous. Like something is infiltrating.... trying to ruin this beautiful (imperfect) community. Yes.... this.....
But when things begin to be swept under the electronic rug because of "optics"... Having it happen on a platonic cuddling site with a strong and supportive community is disturbing, disappointing, and strangely ominous.
@SitaRosee OMG What @Envie said.... Do NOT take blame for bringing to light something so heartwrenching. In my personal opinion there are probably lots of people out there applauding you for speaking your truth because they were too scared. You are only responsible for your actions not the actions of others. @Envie YES abso-freaking-lutely VERY possibly there were others feeling similarly but alone.
do not under any circumstance feel bad about speaking up. Things sitting under the surface need to be brought to the top for a reason. It could bring about change that majority were unaware needed to be addressed.
One thing that came up a few times and made me think...... Having a female balance of energy in leadership.
I know that there is a TON of discussion about moderators and fraternizing etc etc etc but MAYBE this is something that might help. (So sweet to think of someone like @Babichev as the epitome of goodness here) @mark could possibly get feedback about having a "hotline" of sorts where women could voice complaints and fears to a female instead of just to him or other male admin. This certainly is different than a forum moderator.... More of a safe space because of the ability to relate via gender. I know that there were a PLETHORA of women/feminine types who were grateful to @squeakytoy because of her being a woman. If a member is struggling with trust issues from a specific male/female interaction it is sometimes challenging to speak up. Maybe it would help ease the fear and anxiety and trust issues? As many have said already there are a LOT of female pros and a sounding board that can relate could be incredibly beneficial.
@sillysassy ~ Brilliant!! I love the safe space idea! We'd likely need a few though, because some of the things women may report could be quite burdensome to bear/field/advise on alone. 🤗
I've only recently become more active on this forum, but I've been here long enough to appreciate the work of people who want to preserve the integrity of our community.
@sillysassy , I've said this before, but I'll say it again: I respect and appreciate you.
A huge thank you to all who desire to find positive solutions to thorny issues! This site is precious to me and to many many others.
@Lovelight I think what Mark meant is this:
Yes, that's correct. In hindsight, it was a mistake.
@Mark Got it. Hopefully a better solution will be found someday.
This week has been the most challenging in the history of the website. Emotions are running high and mishaps have occurred. On a personal level, I would like to apologise for being too heavy handed in my response on the grievances topic. I should not have offered my opinion on the subject. The comments began to quickly escalate and unfortunately turned into unsubstantiated claims aimed at the admin and moderation team - these comments were therefore removed. The intention here was not to censor, but I can see how it appeared that way. I am now aware the correct protocol is to keep these comments and only add supplementary information. In addition, from this point forward my focus will be to only respond to technical issues on the forum.
On a technical level, I have been the sole developer of the website founded by @Mark and graciously helped by moderators who have volunteered their own time over the years to keep this community vibrant, active and a safe place for everyone.
To give an insight into what I do - I spend my time here building hundreds of mechanisms which work around the clock to protect the community from malicious activity: scammers, fake accounts, non platonic activity and profiles, ban enforcement and prevention of bad actors from returning, all through moderation tools. Along with server maintenance, messaging + search system overhauls and performance improvements, amongst thousands more.
These are unspoken about, but they are critical functions in running a healthy website. I deeply value this community, which is why I happily provide my technical expertise and efforts to continue to maintain and add features which improve the experience for everyone.
Being a moderator of a website like this is a complex task. Naturally, we are exposed to the best and worst parts. A moderator needs to have a strong and level headed mindset to effectively handle the daily messages aimed directly at us, whether positive or negative. We pride ourselves on this, and hold the community values dear to our hearts.
In terms of tools moderators have access to - I would like to emphasise that one of the key aspects of how we handle our reporting process is full transparency via an internal audit trail (access to historical reports, warnings, bans, etc in relation to an account). This means all admins and moderators are held accountable and can see how other moderators are actioning reports. Our internal ticketing system allows talking with the reporter and suspect in separate channels to gather information which helps understand reports, gather evidence and probability of wrongdoing.
For the more challenging cases that need extra sensitivity or second opinions, all moderators are able to confer and come to a general consensus. Our diverse moderator team is able to offer their opinions which ultimately helps determine the outcome of a report. At all times, everyone's voice is heard.
In regards to sharing of information and transparency. We always strive to be transparent where possible. However, just as you would expect a website to take care and protect your own information - we have a duty to protect other people's information and privacy too. For this reason, amongst other legal considerations, we do not disclose detailed information that is sensitive, such as ban reasons, or detailed information involving specific cases. However, if you reach out to the moderation team we will endeavour to help settle any uncomfortable concessions you may have.
I have been part of this community since its inception for over 10 years. We're all human, and we make mistakes. None more than I, and I own up to them when I do. I strongly believe a website like this needs to exist and we would not be anywhere without the strong and resilient community that's been created.
@Gary ~ Thank you for all you do, for responding to some of the concerns here and for acknowledging your mistakes and your humanness too. Hopefully we'll get to see more of that, instead of you just being in the background here (but will understand if you choose not to). 🤗
@Gray et al, thank you! 🌻
It's a good message, @Gary, thank you.
Thank you @Gary
This is one thing that hasn't been answered:
I see that @SitaRosee and the former mod lived on opposite coasts when they met. Did she travel from the west coast to New York? Was she living in the east coast at the time? Who paid for her travel expenses?
This is one thing that has me perplexed and I'm surprised nobody else has brought up that point.
@Robert777/@elpasocuddler was disinvited to the CC platform, effective immediately. I've kept his trolling intact, and answered with facts of the situation, below. [-Sid]
@elpasocuddler - they were both on the East coast at the same time this occurred, approximately two years ago - there was no cross-country flight or travel. They met physically in Philadelphia and she joined him in NYC.
This really has been the most difficult period within the community that I can remember. There are so many personal lessons for me here that I'm still processing.
I've always believed that the community here gives this website a soul. I absolutely cherish that and want to nurture it as best I can. It's why I've had sleepless nights reflecting on recent events. I owe you all an apology as I’ve seriously let you down.
This has always been a community-first website, with a small business emerging later out of necessity. You deserved to be addressed in a way that recognised that reality. Instead I communicated in a way that was tone-deaf and more akin to some major corporation.
It was also too slow. When it comes to important community matters, the team debates in the hope of reaching consensus. A volunteer is not going to volunteer if they are not heard or involved in decision-making. This process and our discussions over new policies caused a delay in an official response. However, it was a mistake not to have provided interim updates to help alleviate speculation.
When it came to the actual incident, we wanted to approach it with the same protocols as any other report, and certainly without special treatment. That being to seek details from the parties involved and attempt to reach a confidence threshold for action based on the evidence. I believe the harshness of our approach with a fellow moderator was likely a contributing factor in them voluntarily stepping down. However, due to the 30-day grace window, the deletion of his account did not cause us any access issues.
There is naturally a limit to what we can say about any case due to privacy and legal considerations. But I definitely understand that there would have been frustration at there being a one line conclusion in my response.
I realise my communication was severely lacking. In fact, the post yesterday by Sideon is an example of what should have been. And indeed this is why he is so valued as a moderator with the primary role of looking after this forum.
On the subject of power imbalances, this new awareness has been a positive development from this challenging period. Sideon will be leading the work on implementing changes around that while also identifying new opportunities. But it shouldn't have taken this long. There was clearly a lack of foresight on my part for not having thought about this over the years, and at the very least including it as a subject during moderator onboarding.
This will remain a topic of discussion for us and it's a difficult one. The business element here remains an add-on to the core community. There are no paywalled features, the Pro fees have always been lower than elsewhere, and we decline offers from advertisers. This is not my full time job, it isn’t for any of us. We need volunteers and they will always be people like you, members of this website.
That has some positives - the outside world doesn't understand this movement like we do. In fact they entirely misunderstand it. But the setup has its challenges, which this thread is all about. We're going to keep working on addressing that over the coming weeks.
I just want to briefly say how grateful I am to those that recently expressed support for me on a personal level, both in the forum and via private message. With all my recent failures, it's heartening that you can still care about me in that way. I have learned so much from this community. I will continue to learn lessons and endeavor to help this community grow in a positive and loving direction.
@Mark,
Thank you.
I am sure that the vast majority of this community are well aware of how difficult, and frankly amazing, the work you have done is.
Learning from mistakes is a sign of good things to come, and a true test of good character.
Again, to you and your team, thank you.
@Mark ~ Seeing a heartfelt and well composed message from you, even if slightly delayed, is far more appreciated than a quick "Eesh, hope this all blows over soon!" type of response.
Thank you for taking the time to really think about what we're all bringing up here, and for having @Sideon here "as a moderator with the primary role of looking after this forum."
All the best~ 🫂 ~QL