@Babichev my understanding is that the question of mods meeting other members is still being thought about in detail and something will be posted in due course. I agree that you can't ban mods from having cuddles - it's absurd - but it is reasonable for the site to have a protocol for mods to follow when they do.
@Sideon . For the record the flagged comment I made , which prompted squeaky toys response , was I felt a member was trolling me . Another person chasing another around in the forum is not in the reporting guidelines .I had never engaged this person , they hurled profanity at me ,a few weeks later baited me and called me pet name ,I never Engaged them Or tagged them in discussion until I finally took their bait . And I suspiciously think ( one of the moderators)went and warned them to cease fire because I never heard from that person again . I do have a question I’ll contact you sometime . Thank you .
I won’t be flagging forum postings in the future , I guess it hurts them more to let their disposition shine on through .
@cuddlerforu24 - you realize SoulZ, myself, and Squeaky all see/saw those flags and those occurrences, and we were in agreement. If there were personal attacks TO you, you didn't flag them. Insinuating and accusing Squeaky's intentions is pretty low. I'll leave it at this: you're responsible for your actions and behaviors, as everyone else is for theirs. Worry about your own conduct. If others are being flagged or have transgressions, that's on them, not you.
Yes . There were personal attack TO me . One was caught by soul cuddler (dec 2020 thank you soul cuddler and I made a public thank you I remember ) but it seems the person kept at it . I let it go waiting for moderators .to moderate which never happened Perhaps it would be helpful to update the forum rules advising members .... what is a flagged comment in bad faith . Like @cuddleduncan says ... maybe we can all learn. Thank you
I speculated that you had a personal problem with an OP and were given that response because that's what an improper flag often is in the grand scheme of things. "I don't like this person or their opinion, so let me spam report this etc." It's not an out of left field speculation to have. Lol.
I think given that we're all adults, we should already have a good idea of what a comment "in bad faith" looks like. There's no need to outline this past basic forum etiquette, which is already outlined in the FAQ in my opinion. Don't be a bully, don't bait, don't bring extreme ideologies into the forum, and such. I'm not sure why examples of this behaviour are needed, it should just be common sense. Those who step the line will either learn from moderator interaction whether they are being inappropriate, or they won't.
@Sideon It appears my closing comments touched a nerve and for that I apologize.
@FWCuddles - Struck a nerve? No. I was impressed with the "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" reference - and I responded at face value. My one feeling is intact. No need to apologize for posting your thoughts - that's what this thread is for.
@cuddlerforu24 - If you were attacked and you (or others) didn't flag it, I'm sorry for that, but as has been stated many times: we aren't reading every line, every word, every post. I agree with your sentiment that there's ample opportunity for all of us to learn and grow.
@MissAdventurous I totally agree! @creedhands very true. I communicated with @sillysassy for a while prior to hanging out and cuddling!!! She is even more awesome in person!!! She is definitely a must hangout and cuddle!!! 😁🤗🎉@MissAdventurous as well!!!😁🤗🎉
Regarding flagging: I’ve not flagged lots of posts and at least half of the time I’m not 100% certain and have expressed that to the moderators when I did it. I trust that they have enough experience to decide. Most of the time, I’ve later noticed that the issue was addressed and in some cases a comment was flagged by multiple participants. I’ve never been warned that my flagging is excessive and/or unjust, so I think my sensibilities must be decent enough.
@CuddleDuncan, thank you for that comment. It would not be fair for moderators to be denied cuddles but definitely careful consideration needs to be given to conduct when there is a power differential.
@Babichev I believe your sensibilities here are without question. Thank you for contributing.
I have never been warned about my flagging, though I have rarely done that in the years I have been here. Usually I think I have done it when there is a glitch in the system and a message has gone haywire so to speak and is in wrong place or didn't come thru correctly. Also probably when someone is just getting obviously bullied to no end. But even then the poster gets timeout or banned before I can even flag!
Ok the subject of mods being able to cuddle people here on this site. I have been thinking on this last two days and if its still allowed I guess the "devil will be in the details". I would have to read the policy itself to see under what circumstances its allowed.
I'm mostly against it to be truthful. I still think the perceived power imbalance will exist. Picture the experienced mod whos been here years and / or has long life experiences asking a new , just joined, early twentysomething or younger to meet. I mean it will be like being called to the principals office over the classroom intercom. ( which may or may not have happened to me. Ok it did, so what! )
Just my age alone I know is a factor in the perceived power imbalance here. What we or maybe just me I guess is looking at is still the perceived power. Just my thoughts. It is a tough situation in my opinion. I think @Sideon is a role model moderator. I hope @squeakytoy comes back or is back. I really do.
I do also hope she returns @OhioMike I really, really miss her and felt much safer with how often she seemed to be in here watching. Not to mention it was just nice to have a female presence and she was the perfect choice in my honest opinion.
I see some people have asked about NB representation in the mod roster. I'm sure this is something they are well aware of and would like to take action on. But then again, I don't know of many NB folks (other than now-departed @DarrenWalker who was probably the only NB person I saw posting regularly) who were active in the forum, balanced in mindset, and veterans of the community. If they were or are around, they certainly haven't made themselves known.
I'm curious to hear people's opinions on the following. I did see the topic was brought up earlier, but I don't think it was really delved into so much as gone over as a passing thought.
How would the community truly feel if a pro was also selected or being considered to moderate? Would people on the whole be entirely uncomfortable with that simply because of another perceived power imbalance? Perhaps if a pro moderator is selected, they could only administrate in the pro section of the website so as to not create some sort of quasi-conflict of interest within the public enthusiast forum? Because I'm sure this is something that would come up if the decision were made. Anyway, I'm just tossing possibilities out there and I feel like you guys will have some good thoughts to bounce back.
What do you all think? I know how I feel and while I felt in the past that maybe the idea of pros moderating could get icky, I do think maybe that's an area of representation that is needed, at least for the pro population of the website.
I think a pro to mod/ be a mentor to other pros ONLY would be a good idea. However, a pro moderator might lose clientele and income among enthusiasts (I don't know how often, if ever, pros hire other pros)
Oh for sure as far as the loss of income. So it'd need to be someone who is okay with that. At the same time I think it could be a safety net for whichever pro ended up being given the position. Nobody with ill intentions or intentions of breaking the TOS is going to book that pro (unless they somehow know she is a double dealer), that's for damned sure. And if said pro was a breaker of TOS, they wouldn't dare take it up either.
@Catloaf and that circles back to where I was when this started:
Mods get paid here and...
Mods can't fraternize here.
Well, you and I have discussed the hullabaloo that brought all of this to the forefront, so I'll say this...I've had a think on the incident with Z. Whether or not something was misinterpreted on either side of the argument, I feel, is neither here nor there as far as moving forward. He was respectful to react the way he did by stepping down and leaving the site in the aftermath. I will give him that. And the moderation team was fairly transparent about how they intend to move forward in the days following, so I am willing to extend some clemency.
It's part of the reason that I didn't take the break I said I would. That was sort of my knee-jerk reaction to something that initially upset me, and then as I gained more clarity it made sense to keep moving forward, regardless of how I feel about Z's actions or the administration's reactions. The reason for that is because I truly do love this community, and I'm attached to it. The incident was dealt with, and if anything, it exposed a gaping hole in potential for power abuse that folks in charge are willing to examine and have input on.
I've been part of tons of online communities where the leadership is truly, truly corrupt. Unwilling to listen, unwilling to reflect, quick to bully, and quick to power trip on almost anyone. I feel that maybe, just maybe, grace can be extended to trust this team to take what happened to heart, realize a wrong needs to be made right, and to put more preventative measurements in place so that incidents like the former not only don't happen, but are unlikely to happen.
I'll re-iterate, I was totally noooooot okay with all the "compensation" talk going on. That boiled my blood. And I'm thankful that they came out to admit what was going on, and instead of banning people left and right for retorting, they did take the accusations to heart and re-grouped with the community, one example being a la Mod Gary. I have never really witnessed this kind of thing in any online community I've been in, ever, and I have even been part of some relatively good ones.
My belief is that @Mark intends to keep that incident in the forefront of his mind, and to carefully monitor any sort of fraternization going forward. I do in the end feel that it is unfair to take away someone's ability to peruse the site for its intended purpose just because of the behaviour of one person, but I can understand completely why many want this rule in place. Moderator status as I understand it, is to be on a volunteer basis only, with no compensation given in return of any sort (independent from pro mods going about their business). It is as simple as that I think. These would be people who have acted over the years with integrity for the community. Whereas Z was promoted not terribly long after he'd joined the site (someone can correct me, I don't remember the age of his account), what can be considered going forward is someone's organic interactions via the website, as well as their contributions to the forum, over time.
My scatterbrain is on full autopilot right now. Sorry if none of this makes sense. Yikes!
I'm okay with a professional moderating not only pros/their clients, but the general community since they are a part of this community as much as any other well-intentioned cuddler. Though, maybe it might be more efficient to have specialized roles, but I'm not sure how the work of moderating is delegated.
Having a professional as a mod may make other professionals more comfortable and would maybe fear things like revenge karma ratings less.
@sunnysideup The angle that I worry about is a pro mod abusing their power and targeting "rival" pros. Or targeting certain clients for switching to another pro or something else laughably ridiculous. But then again, I don't see said pro mod not being held accountable by the rest of the team for such a behaviour, especially when something like that essentially concerns the site's bottomline.
Awwwwwwww I love this!!! LOVE LOVE LOVE this! We have all been capable for almost 3000 views and basically THREE full days to have reasonable conversations about difficult things. You humans are amazing.... Thank you for creating such a beautiful community. 😊
I have been thinking about this quite a bit actually.... (amidst kitchen cabinetry and bathroom remodeling) You all know me well enough to know that I'm not interested in BS or just being controversial etc etc. So here goes.... (A little grace please in case I am missing a big picture kind of thing.)
I REALLY think there should be people who are paid to moderate our forums (and possibly other things) Hear me out. Like @OhioMike mentioned..... This community has grown to be a HUGE thing. When it started it was small and new and not even PRO's were around back then. NOW it is becoming a really big deal and it is growing by leaps and bounds. Its only going to get bigger.
Here's my question.
Are we so hung up on having VOLUNTEER mods from the community because that's how its always been done?
@Mark says---
I've always believed that the community here gives this website a soul.
I really appreciate this. REALLY APPRECIATE!!! We do give it a soul and a heartbeat and a diversified approach.
This is not my full time job, it isn’t for any of us.
This is useful information to hear. There is lots of speculation about it possibly being a huge multi-million dollar production and I'm thankful that you addressed this. (Although I suppose you could be a multi millionaire, working at McDonalds as a side hustle just for the FRENCH FRIES!)
That has some positives - the outside world doesn't understand this movement like we do.... But the setup has its challenges.....
I do agree with @mark that for the most part the outside world doesn't understand this world of snuggle..... BUT there are how many people that are hearing about it and coming on board? I'm pretty sure @respectful has some numbers on the growth trend from CC's original inception date till now. That being said..... I can imagine people who love what this is about, but would be ok just working part time in order to help maintain it and maybe not in need of connecting with people from here to cuddle. We can't really imagine it because everyone who has ever been a moderator has come from within the community.
We need volunteers and they will always be people like you, members of this website.
Just as much as parents might help the school with a bunch of cookies for the PTA, volunteers are always a necessity, BUT we certainly wouldn't want to ask the parents to be the DEAN or the SUPERINTENDANT!!! That would seem crazy. I think of someone like @DonLong for example (because I love him and miss him so much!!) He was here and loved the site but isn't looking for cuddles anymore. Or to find someone outside CC who is an ALLY but would rather have a job than the cuddle connection specifically from the site. We would never ask for volunteers in the IT department. That would be a total failure. In the same manner..... Maybe it is time to consider having volunteers AND some part time paid moderators.
Just thinking... and like @Catloaf mentioned.... Hope this makes sense!!! She is such an amazing human and I am so thankful for that cutie pie! I can't really comment on the PRO thing but it seems like we need more representation and a sounding board from all of the different aspects that make this place work.
@Catloaf You're right that there is that possiblity. I don't know how likely that scenario is when factoring in accountability from other mods, but it is still there. Someone else made a suggestions for mods that are enthusiast cuddlers,, about having to refrain from any moderating activity with someone they've cuddled with. Perhaps the same could apply for a mod that is also a professional.
How would the community truly feel if a pro was also selected or being considered to moderate? Would people on the whole be entirely uncomfortable with that simply because of another perceived power imbalance? @Catloaf
I thought about this the other day, & reading this just now brought me back to when I wanted to share this & didn't, I think @Envie would make an incredible Mod if she ever so chooses to do so and/ or admin asks her (although I don’t think she actually wants to) … she is very intelligent/ firm / thoughtful / & I believe she has zero bias but at the same time is no nonsense & fair … Is it possible that mods can moderate without announcing they did the moderating to avoid conflicts of interest (on both ends)?
@cuddles_ndream I feel/think that the "accused has the right to confront the accuser " just my thoughts meaning I'd think I want to know who I am talking to.
@cuddles_ndream I agree with your sentiment for sure, especially when it comes to Envie. I’ve often looked at her posts and thought she would be excellent as a moderator or mentor. And since you bring up the needed anonymity for pro-actioned reports, I don’t believe that additional comments left on a post always contained a signature in the past from what I remember. That was something that emerged during Z’s tenure and caught on. Why this is, I’m not sure. Maybe Mark could elaborate. But if a pro were to moderate, I would think that for the sake of protecting them from being targeted or lashed out at by the general site section, added comments would need to once again be left unsigned and only disclosed on a need-to-know basis only to involved parties.
@OhioMike & @Catloaf you both bring up great points & insight, thank you.
Eeek I'm incredibly honored that a fellow pro and members could see me as a moderator. I'm flattered. I love this community. Assisting other pros is by far my favorite downtime here. I want to see them be successful but above all safe and informed about screening protocols and how to avoid potential problems. (●♡∀♡)
Fortunately but unfortunately my small business ( just me haha ) is about to get very busy with music festival season + my online store so my downtime will be a bit limited.
Thank you @sillysassy for bringing this discussion to light. It's been a pretty peaceful one and that warms my heart.
Moderation works best when the moderators come from the community. This community is a mixture of enthusiasts and professionals: therefore, it is fine in principle to have a moderator who is a professional. It may raise some questions, but those questions all have perfectly good answers.
One of the big, simple points to come out of this whole thing is the harm that is done by secrecy, and the benefits that come from openness. Mods with dual accounts, mods who work anonymously .... anything like that is unhelpful.
Similarly, it doesn't matter whether mods are pure volunteers or if they get paid in some way. What does matter is that whatever the arrangement is, it is public.
In my experience, public discussion of who would make a good moderator is risky for a number of different reasons. The biggest risk is that somebody who is potentially a good mod is put off. The most successful protocol I have encountered is to suggest somebody you think might be good to the chief moderator (i.e. Sid) without mentioning it to the candidate or anybody else. If the mod team thinks 'no thanks' then no harm done to anybody; and if they think 'yes please' then they can approach the candidate in the right way at the right time.
I may be opening Pandora's box here, but I have to ask.
I understand that there is a process with a log for mods to view private messages etc.
But here is my question.
All the data on this site. such as pictures saved in your message outbox, private messages between people, or even message drafts we have made and not posted, all of this is stored in a database somewhere. something akin to an excel file, for the less technical people.
Does the admin, who controls the code and the data, have access to all of this by going into the database and bypassing any flagging requirements or log controls?
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful feedback.
@MCcuddles2
As with most websites, there are databases that are necessary to store data. It's therefore technically possible for a site owner with root access to view that raw data in an unstructured way. There are some major websites looking at end-to-end encryption (e.g. Instagram) but this is a huge undertaking with many considerations and is not currently part of our roadmap.
@Catloaf
Thanks for bringing up the topic of Pro moderators. The community sentiment on that is something I'm really interested in.
Hear! Hear! @CuddleDuncan
@Mark and @Gary I appreciate your leadership and accountability! We are all on a constant journey in life, including learning, making mistakes (because we are human), failures and successes!!! 🏆 I hope to see this awesome community become increasingly more welcoming to all its members and that all feel accepted/respected/appreciated! True we may not always agree with each other but being respectful of each other is important. @Sideon you are awesome 😎!!! @squeakytoy you are missed!!!❤️