Literacy: please can we have more

CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod
edited August 2021 in General

I would just like to say that the the standard of reading on this forum often leaves a lot to be desired. Again and again we see people arguing over something that hasn't been said. My own experiences of this have left me baffled and frustrated, but its nothing to do with me - it happens to others too.

Great, says you, I heartily agree, those folks who don't actually read what's written annoy me too. Riiiiight, says I ...... are you sure that you haven't done it yourself? Oh, you haven't?

OK, well did you read this post properly?

There are three things you missed - a prize of a million dollars in used socks for each: two are easy-peasy and one is hard but not that hard.

Edit: please post your answers as Spoilers (use the paragraph sign drop down button above the box) so as not to, ahem, spoil it for others.

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Comments

  • [Deleted User]Protector (deleted user)

    “the the standard” in line 1. “its nothing to do with me” it’s is missing its apostrophe. And I could argue for a lot of questionable little things that probably go either way: “that” in line 1 is unnecessary, use a comma after again and again, use which instead of that preceding “hasn’t been said”, maybe use a semicolon instead of a dash in the last sentence of the first paragraph. I was an English teacher, so I learned a lot about grammar, it was forever ago so I’ve forgotten most of it, and I’m a big believer in the evolving nature of language so I don’t usually pay close attention to determining the correctness of every nonstandard usage! 😂

    Great post and exercise. Thanks @CuddleDuncan!

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    This judgmental thread brings to mind the Browning poem “A Grammarian’s Funeral” where the student reflects on the teacher’s devotion to his work but bemoans the fact that the teacher fixated so much on getting it right he totally whiffed on life itself.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod

    Congratulations @Protector, you have nailed the two easy ones right off the bat. Your two million dollars is in the post.

    The third one isn't a questionable little thing of the kind you mention, of which there are of course plenty. Once you spot it you'll know.

    Please could you edit your post to make it a Spoiler, so others can still search. Thanks.

  • JasonCuddlesJasonCuddles

    I find that the the biggest issue isn't reading comprehension but a mismatch of assumptions. Often times when we write we have two or more meanings and/or information that is left out and if you don't fill in the missing information and assumptions in the way the original author did then the meaning of the sentence will be different.

    Another common argument is what the definition of a word is. Often times people will argue over something but they are really arguing for the same thing. It's just they have different ideas of what the word is.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel
    edited August 2021

    There are also many people who come to the community whose first language isn’t English. In addition, disparities in education exist for several reasons. For those who do possess an education it is better to help out when language missteps occur rather than start a thread and risk alienating them.

    And while the initial post is framed as a brain teaser it conveys an air of judgement and superiority and a notable lack of compassion for those who may not be the best at utilizing the written word.

  • inig0montoyainig0montoya

    Hyphen instead of em-dash

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod
    edited August 2021

    This thread has nothing to do with native or non-native speakers, and has nothing to do with education or comprehension. Since it's come up, I was thinking of several specific examples, and in every case the people concerned were native speakers. In any case, non-native speakers read more carefully, not less carefully.

    This thread is about actually reading the words that are in front of you, and not inventing something out of thin air.

    I would agree with both of those, @JasonCuddles.

    Sorry, @audiguy85, it's not that. Nothing so detailed.

    Edit: just thinking about this, in my life I may have spent more time talking to non-native English speakers that native ones. In the last year, considerably more.

  • quixotic_lifequixotic_life

    @FunCartel ~ Once again, 🥰!

  • JasonCuddlesJasonCuddles

    @CuddleDuncan I made the same error you did. Did you miss it?

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod

    Oh good, more people missing the point.

    @quixotic_life, read it again.

  • CuddleDuncanCuddleDuncan Mod

    @JasonCuddles you got me! Hook, line, sinker and this month's copy of Angling Times. =) =) =)

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel
    edited August 2021

    Maybe you might be missing the point. I get your point but it is tone deaf and insensitive at best.

    Perhaps if you wish to die on that sword you might want to check the new moderators thread where you missed your own point.

  • sunnysideupsunnysideup

    @JasonCuddles Yes, I have learned that when I'm making broad statements, I have to remember to write exceptions that I thought would be obvious but actually aren't. Maybe it is a problem on my part in assuming how others would interpret what I write.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel
    edited August 2021

    @sunnysideup Yes, funny thing about words, they are not always literal, not always figurative, nor serious, or funny. Yet people take them literally, figuratively, seriously and funny. We have to be extremely sensitive on how our words affect others and that isn’t always easy. I know it can be frustrating because you know what you mean but that is not how it was taken. We have all been there. Language is a lifetime work in progress.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel
    edited August 2021

    I would just like to say that the the standard of reading on this forum often leaves a lot to be desired.

    That is a judgement in your very first sentence.

    The fact that you poorly executed sarcasm and satire only magnifies the problem with the post. Yes, everyone has misread things at some time or another. Getting your point does not mean your point is correct or even warranted. This time your point came across as shaming.

  • Mike403Mike403

    I only get irritated when people constantly misuse your/you're or there/they're/their.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @Mike403 I get your point about misusing you’re and this has been a problem of yore to modernity.

  • Mike403Mike403

    Also, when people say 'literally' instead of 'figuratively'.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @mike403 In what sense? Literally and figuratively are two completely different definitions, especially in linguistics and semantics.

  • Mike403Mike403

    @FunCartel - When I hear somebody say that a band "literally" destroyed the venue. That would only be valid if they actually tore down the building after the concert.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @mike403 I understand that. Using it in that way is called the figurative use of literally. There are many examples of it in literature—and it is often used to great effect but most people, like you are saying do not pay attention to how they use the word literally. Most of the time the word is not even needed like “I mean literally what I say” which implies you are lying any other time absent of that clarification.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @quixotic_life Sorry, I overlooked your post. Thank you and thank you for seeing my point…literally 🤣🤣😂. I hope you appreciate that one @Mike403

  • [Deleted User]DeadGirlWalking (deleted user)
    edited August 2021

    I think a lot of the problem is when people are so set on their own agenda that they are deeply inflexible and thus get offended by things that other people HAVEN'T said, but that they read into the other person's words.

    For example, if person A tells person B that person B has upset them because of something person B has (or hasn't) done, and person B twists it and takes offense over it and makes person A feel bad by saying that person A is unreasonable to have those feelings, thus invalidating person A's very valid emotions and making person B the victim, when it is person A that is hurting.

  • [Deleted User]CharlesThePoet (deleted user)

    English is a wonderfully, and haphazardly, expressive language.

    There have been many great analogies, and my favorite has always been that English is a language that follows other languages into dark alleys and mugs them for loose words and grammar.

    I personally try to remember that my favorite writers of all time are still interpreted, re-interpreted, and misinterpreted constantly. Professionally, in some cases.

    If Shakespeare and e.e.cummings are that vulnerable to being misunderstood, it’s probably best that I give others the benefit of the doubt when I read their posts.

    As to spelling errors… I surrendered that battle because of Asimov, and his academic exercise/bar bet: GHOTI.

    As always, productive and beneficial communication is usually about empathy, patience, and tolerance.

    Please, let’s stop the personal attacks, and remove the ones already here. Thank you.
    [-CharlesthePoet]

  • JoyfulHeartJoyfulHeart

    @CharlesThePoet

    GHOTI

    What kind of bait were you using?

  • [Deleted User]CharlesThePoet (deleted user)

    @JoyfulHeart

    The kind that doesn’t hook the experienced.

    :)

  • JoyfulHeartJoyfulHeart

    @CharlesThePoet

    You rock

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel
    edited August 2021

    I personally try to remember that my favorite writers of all time are still interpreted, re-interpreted, and misinterpreted constantly. Professionally, in some cases.

    The age old argument in literary theory—who determines what is the right interpretation? And the second question that ensues is if there is a right interpretation at all.

  • sillysassysillysassy

    @CuddleDuncan I do see that you were trying to play a word game..... but it seems like you were doing so in order to point out other people's faults. I agree that is seems a little bit aggressive or publicly shaming in a passive aggressive kind of way. When you use words like "frustrated and annoying" about people trying to convey their truth it does seem a bit harsh. Although if you just wanted to complain about people "misreading/not reading posts" then it would fit perfectly in the "Gripes and Grievances" thread. I don't want to be a jerk, but when you rally people like that it sort of seems like a bully who is trying to make fun of the other ones who don't quite get it.

    As to the OP's actual title of the thread...... I was LITERALLY JUST talking to my kiddos about this in the sense of literacy= perceived intellectual intelligence and how challenging it is to change my perspective about that BECAUSE I AM OLD!!! When I went to school they actually LITERALLY TOOK OFF POINTS for misuse of grammar and misspelling etc.
    This generation and the previous, stopped learning this in school and it has become habit because of texting, email, and autocorrect. Most of us old geezers notice it but tend to overlook it. What I don't want to do is look like a crazy old lady who complains about it. hahahhaha I mean I was a spelling bee champ who cried when I didn't spell SHEPHERD correctly!!! hahahahhaha Why am I laughing????? I LITERALLY cried!!! 🤣😂😁

    @CharlesThePoet so eloquently put. Thank you for the reminder that we have a priority when posting or responding here in the public forums because we are choosing to be a part of something that is DIFFERENT than the traditional. We're also encompassing people all over the globe!! Different perspectives galore!!!

    English is a wonderfully, and haphazardly, expressive language.
    If Shakespeare and e.e.cummings are that vulnerable to being misunderstood, it’s probably best that I give others the benefit of the doubt when I read their posts. As always, productive and beneficial communication is usually about empathy, patience, and tolerance.

    @BuggleBear YES!!!! I think it happens whether they are agreeing OR disagreeing we get offended. Deeply inflexible.... Good word use!!

    I think a lot of the problem is when people are so set on their own agenda that they are deeply inflexible and thus get offended by things that other people HAVEN'T said, but that they read into the other person's words.

    @FunCartel hahahhaha "Yore to modernity" 😁😁😁
    SO TRUE!!!

    The age old argument in literary theory—who determines what is the right interpretation?

    Sorry this is such a long post!!! I tend to blather on so I can get across my meaning. hahahhahaha Maybe I should put it ALL in a SPOILER!!!!

    Carry on folks. Carry on

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    @CharlesThePoet
    IT IS SO SUPER DUPER FUN TO SEE YOU MODERATING!! Bringing down the hammer!!! FIGURATIVELY!!! 😊

  • [Deleted User]DeadGirlWalking (deleted user)

    @sillysassy I get such Mom vibes from you and I live for it. Feel free to adopt me haha

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