I disagree. It's also bullying when you (constantly and on purpose) interrupt someone or ridicule them in front of everyone (even if it's just based on their ideas, not them as a person). The key word is RATIONAL. "Constructive" is too much of an abstract term, and some people aren't asking for criticism, so that's unsolicited criticism (however constructive it may be). Unsolicited criticism might not immediately constitute bullying - it depends on the tone and situation - but if you start getting irrational and using words like "insane" to belittle someone's ideas, that's where it becomes problematic. You could just say "I disagree because ______" or "Have you considered __________". And even with those sentences, the tone still changes the nature of the conversation: For example, if you say something extreme like "have you considered reading a book", assuming that person has never read a book in their life, that is attacking them and aimed at making them feel small.
The "softness" of my voice isn't so much about trying not to hurt someone, as it is about my experience that shows that I've been more successful in changing people's thinking when I don't trigger their reticular activating system (RAS) at the beginning of a conversation.
One of the functions of the RAS is to prevent the brain from overload of information. When someone feels threatened, the RAS can cause a mind state that makes communication difficult, if not impossible.
This bit of neurology has been used by teachers who are looking for strategies to improve their learning outcomes.
When I enter a discussion with this in mind, I may miss out on "scoring a win." I also have to recognize that I don't carry the sole responsibility for correcting bad thinking. Correcting that thinking is a process, and it takes time. I may be only one link in the chain that brings them to something more accurate, and I'm ok with that.
@pottnudel
This is a forum. A forum is a place where people get together to share ideas. If a person makes unsubstantiated claims—especially ones that concern documented history, science, specific groups, or the whole of humanity—then they should expect opposition. If opposition wounds them in some capacity (and that is entirely on them), and they can't possibly deal with the arguments leveled at their ideas, then...maybe they shouldn't voice them in a public setting? I mean, they're the ones getting emotional. Maybe they should look inward. Just a thought.
Also: I vehemently disagree with everything you said.
One more thing: if someone came up to you and said that the PM of New Zealand was sending them telepathic orders to rob a maternity ward and turn its occupants into a meat statue of Clint Eastwood, would you not think that that idea is insane?
Or do you think that all ideas should be respected, no matter what?
@pottnudel (interesting name) says,
It's also bullying when you (constantly and on purpose) interrupt someone or ridicule them in front of everyone (even if it's just based on their ideas, not them as a person).
Agreed! If you ridicule a person—for instance saying they lack common sense—that is a personal attack.
some people aren't asking for criticism
Agreed again. It's actually rare for someone to put forth an idea in the hope that people will tear all the bad bits off it (destroy it entirely, if it's entirely unsound), and thus help them avoid clinging to false beliefs.
What people usually want, alas, is simply to be told their idea is correct... even when it's very much not.
They want echo chambers.
Unsolicited criticism might not immediately constitute bullying - it depends on the tone and situation - but if you start getting irrational and using words like "insane" to belittle someone's ideas, that's where it becomes problematic.
Here I disagree. Attacking an idea—an idea only—is never bullying.
Let's say you live in a society where a majority of people believe that the Supreme Antelope is pleased whenever you touch a stranger's hair.
Let's say also that you don't like having your hair touched.
Is it bullying for you to criticize this belief whenever it turns up no matter who's presenting it? Suppose the presenter is on a public internet forum insisting that it's good to touch strangers' hair and encouraging others to please the Supreme Antelope: are you a bully for being critical?
What if it's one person in particular pushing this belief—refusing to keep it to themselves—are you a bully for speaking up against the idea then? Are you a bully for using strong words (like "insane") to describe the idea?
An idea is an idea. A person is a person. Allowing ideas to hide behind people's feelings can end up taking you some very unpleasant places.
@JoyfulHeart says,
...I've been more successful in changing people's thinking when....
And here, I think, is the crux of the issue, etc.
Why does the goal have to be changing people's thinking, changing their minds, selling them your idea? Present a mature, rational human being with information—convey it as clearly as you know how—and let them make up their own mind.
Why should the goal be "I'm convinced" rather than "I understand"?
Indeed, why should we even take responsibility for another adult's understanding? If we've been as clear as we can be, and they still don't get it, surely that's their problem?
Unless we're being paid to teach them, of course.
@DaringSprinter Changing someone's thinking is seldom my goal, unless they come to me asking for help. In those instances where they have have so, I do so in the best way I know how.
I recognize that there are other times when it might be good to attempt to change someone's mind. In particular, situations where their line of thinking leads them to do things that are harmful to others. I work in a place where people's false beliefs have brought about harm to themselves or others. Much of my job involves keeping people safe, but if an opportunity arises where I believe someone is willing to learn something new, I make the most of it.
@JoyfulHeart: Hmm.
And where the goal isn't to change minds—where you leave the decision to believe or not in the hands of the person you're talking to, don't try to influence their decision in any way, just give them the information—there, you don't see a need to tiptoe around ideas on the off chance the person's feelings might be too tightly bound up with the ideas?
@DaringSprinter
No, I don't feel the need to to tiptoe. I used to, but not any more. I allow people to see where I stand, but it's up to them whether they agree or not.
@JoyfulHeart: Makes sense to me!
I once dated a guy who turned out to be a hardcore ultraconservative Christian, something he hid from me when we first got together. (He turned out to be a pathological liar.) On a couple of occasions we had a couple of no holds barred conversations about belief and/or lack of it. The point of these conversations was to be able to ask each other the questions we wanted to ask and answer them completely candidly without fear of anyone getting offended. It’s the only time I’ve ever had that sort of opportunity because people get offended pretty quickly when you challenge their beliefs. I learned a lot from it. The most important thing I learned from it was that even though he had a college degree he was almost completely illiterate scientifically. He did not understand the most basic concepts of science, had a seriously distorted idea of what science is or how the scientific method works. There was a point beyond which conversation was pointless because he didn’t understand science enough to see the flaws in his thinking. You can’t talk about the DNA record as evidence for evolution when someone doesn’t accurately understand how evolution works and doesn’t understand how the DNA record provides evidence for it.
I’m fortunate that in my professional life and my personal life I’ve had people with whom I could have those radically honest conversations. The thing I most appreciate about my science minded friends is I can ask whatever I want and express myself freely and no one ever gets offended. It’s really liberating.
“The first principle is not to fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.” - Richard Feynman