The Perils of Holding Hands:
All these questions are on my in-take forms.
@JaneDough_ Thanks and hope your work day flows well.
@hifigeorge Thanks for sharing and I’m so glad you all have excellent communication and consent! Super cool to hear that.
@FunCartel 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I don’t think either party is in the wrong. There were various factors that made this pro uncomfortable, and they have a right to not see this client even if another pro wouldn’t have a problem.
Cuddling in public: Cuddling is affection, and public cuddling is PDA. It’s invariably going to look or even feel a bit “romantic,” because our culture doesn’t exactly normalize platonic PDA. Even “dinner and a movie” could feel romantic to someone. (Though funnily enough in this context, two adult lesbians holding hands and skipping down the street apparently come off as just great “gal pals.”) If the client or the pro needs to limit PDA (ie affection) during a cuddle, it’s good to discuss that in advance, like if the client wants them to “present” as friends in case they are seen. Most pros embrace the opportunity to normalize platonic affection, platonic love, platonic Valentine’s Day, etc, in my experience, whether public or private, which is why I can see why the client was surprised, but the pro’s feelings are still valid.
I hate to break it to people, but outside the cuddle community, spooning is not really considered platonic! It’s extremely intimate, much more so than holding hands. Our definition of “cuddling” is a construct that people aren’t necessarily familiar with. But what feels romantic or sexual varies from individual to individual.
@frankparker9 Beautifully said! It’s always case by case and multiple variables come into play.
@Nature_Lover_ Thank you.
Silently offers hand... "May I hold your hand?" "Will you hold my hand?" 🎵I wanna hold your hand...🎵
There's something very sweet and endearing about casual hand holding. I've never thought of it as anything other than platonic though, so this is all quite interesting.
Now, if it's the kind that comes with the leaning in closeness, with lovey dovey hearts and glitters all about... well... that's different story...
I am a bit confused by the question. Are you saying that there are public sessions where there is no touching involved? If I have a public session, I expect hand holding, hugs, the whole package. Is it platonic, in my world, yes absolutely. I hold my female friends and family members hands in public all the time and I am married. I’m in a basically open relationship so maybe it’s a different story. I’m curious now though, do pros have public sessions with clients where they don’t touch each other?
As long as both people are ok with it, sure. If anything, it's less intimate than cuddling or even hugging.
I think that as long as the other spouse is aware of everything going on, then it is okay. If the other spouse has been purposefully uninformed, then it is definitely not okay as it would probably deeply hurt their spouse if they found out. But I also understand that it is not the job of the professional to make moral judgements - what someone does with their personal life is up to the client.
I think that hand holding is an appropriate activity with a professional cuddler as it is platonic touch. Everyone is a little bit different, however. To some, holding hands is no big deal. To some, it's an integral catalyst to platonic connection. To others, it's only associated with dating. Some people like to be asked verbally, others think that it is very weird to ask. There is probably some spillover from American dating culture which doesn't seem so inclined to verbal consent as whole (I'm not experienced in dating, but this is what I'm being told by and large). If one wants to hold hands, but they can't tell if it's okay to hold hands, then they should definitely ask first because it is better to look weird than to cross a physical boundary.
Hand holding is a boundary for me- I hold hands while cuddling but even then it’s only momentary. If I am holding hands in public, it is because I feel uncomfortable and want the other person to take lead of the situation.
I can’t recall holding hands in public with any of my cuddle buddies, so I can only provide feedback with cuddling at their residence.
Hand holding feels intimate and I don’t mind it during cuddling but it’s not a prolonged action. (My hands get sweaty)
I was surprised by my reaction to this question…
At first I was like that is for romantic relationships or people you care about. Not for strangers you barely know and possibly never see again.
Then I remembered there was this one guy that asked and I did hold his hand. He seem pleased but it did nothing for me during that session.
Then I really started thinking about how like to cuddle and I’m all up in my cuddle buddies personal space. Limbs entwined listening to each other’s heart beat. Drawing in a deep breath after a tight hug that relaxes us and we are just comfortably holding each other.
Then it hit me I actually do it all the time but it’s very organic. Did not even realize it. Personally just for me and only in regards to hand holding…don’t ask. If it happens great if it happens naturally. LOL learned something new about myself with this question.
I don’t know why anyone thinks hiding anything from a spouse is ok. If there isn’t honesty and transparency what kind of relationship even is that. Why be married if you can’t share anything, it’s about being united not sneaky. So long as the persons spouse is comfortable I think hand holding out and about is lovely ! Energy flows between hands much like chest to chest. As for consent it never hurts to ask. I don’t think there would be anything wrong about taking someone’s hand though, hopefully the other person could set a boundary if they needed to
I have not yet read through the comments but I will say that I don’t think there’s a blanket answer to the question. I think it depends on all the parties involved, including the non-present spouse, and what they think is and is not acceptable including what they consider acceptable in private as well as in public.
I am ok with hand holding on a case by case scenario and certainly with other PDA but it does depend on the client, our mutual level of comfort and CONSENT. Read my karma, I love public snuggles. Location, type of event, intent of connection and so much more. I am also ok with connecting with clients who are in relationships. I understand one person may not meet all your needs and if your need is for platonic physical touch and connection then please reach out and talk to me. I am very open minded and non judgmental.
Do I want to harm anyone directly or indirectly - no absolutely not. The very best thing for me has been to have a conversation preceding any type of session to ensure I know what your needs and expectations are so that I can do my very best to meet and exceed these and beyond this to be certain we are both able to work within our mutual boundaries and comfort zones.
I do ask for honesty as I will be honest and upfront with my clients. If I lied and said I was single ( I am single ) and then my husband showed up at the movies where we were watching a rom com holding hands and leaning into one another. That’s a problem. That’s a serious need to know.
If I’m with a client and just grab for his hand on public or if it were a female, perhaps I grab around her waist or hips and pull her close as we stroll and we have not previously discussed or otherwise established we are both cool with this then that’s a problem. It’s a problem because I care about the people I serve and want them to feel safe, seen, heard, supported and understood. I will never message a client and say, I can’t wait to rub your feet! I might say in a discussion prior, I would love to give you a foot rub or how would you about giving me a foot rub? It’s about consent and respect.
For many people holding hands in public is a show of romantic connection. For those that it is not, that’s cool too. Again, it’s set, setting, characters and all the other variables. I feel what @Babichev stated this is not a one size fits all but CONSENT should be considered always I feel.
So if your perfect session entails hand holding then I would suggest simply express that to ensure that is in line with your cuddler partner’s boundaries.
✌️💗😊
Just got a message in my inbox about this post and the question read, ‘ if I book a session and the pro accepts, isn’t that considered consent?’
Only reason I am posting this is because I think it’s so important to talk about.
No, booking a session and having that session accepted does not equal consent to holding hands. Everyone is different and some folks have sweaty hands and don’t like the holding of hands due to that, just as an example.
I would say to be safe simply express what you like, need, and expect and discuss that between all parties involved.
As a paid cuddle I have zero desire to waste anyones time or money. I respect peoples’ time, money and energy. If you want something I cannot give such as public hand holding in the town your wife lives in but you have not told your wife you cuddle, then I may be able to refer you to a pro who is cool with that or otherwise respectfully decline a session.
@FunCartel Omgosh... OF COURSE you would think along these beautifully IN DEPTH lines. I'm so glad there are people like you out there in the cuddleverse!! 🤣😁😂
@Nature_Lover_ 💖💖💖 YES! People you wouldn't just happen to connect with!
I use this platform personally as a means to connect with amazing people I wouldn’t otherwise encounter in my normal circles, and most definitely for platonic cuddling.
I love that you have the ability to see that people have to be responsible for their own stuff. You brought up the "lying about a partner" issue..... I feel like this is true as an enthusiast or as a pro. I can only speak MY truth. The other people involved have to be willing to do the same. I always have the honesty discussion, but at the end of the day I only know what they have told me. BIG red flags for me if they are a person who proves to be dishonest.
@Syins (I just realized that this might be saying "science" ??? Maybe?? Forgive ME... I'm swooning here....
Forgive me; I’m reading a book on moral philosophy.
I really appreciate the FRIES reference.... And you brought up a very valid point. If its not ENTHUSIASTIC because of body language then you are probably in a realm where you shouldn't be ASKING for consent. And @JoyfulHeart with the "power of disparity" etc. VERY valid points. (Even here, we saw this awhile back with inappropriate Moderator influencing a PRO stuff)
I was just re-reading through all of this.... Its so extraordinarily interesting to me!!!! All of your responses show how people look at things so differently no matter what the TOS says. Hmmmmmmm I think I feel a poll coming on....
For me, platonic means my behaviour is not intended to get sex. Holding hands, in the context of a cuddle session, is by its nature, platonic.
As for consent... For some, consent means strictly coming to agreement on every action and it takes-on an unnatural feeling of control. Well, just grabbing someone's hand, is an act of exerting control, as a demand, or as a right. That's totally disrespectful.
So, for me, it's nothing to ask, "can I hold your hand?". For me it's just another way of telling the other person I want to be closer to them. If it works out, great. If the answer is no, it's not an earth-shattering rejection.
@Nature_Lover_
‘ if I book a session and the pro accepts, isn’t that considered consent?’ [to holding hands]
As you rightly say, no it isn't. What the professional has consented to is meeting at the agreed time and place with the intent of having a cuddlng session. What that means in detail cannot be fully agreed in advance because nothing is confirmed until you actually meet.
Furthermore, consent can be withdrawn at any time. Once the parties have met, either can say "D'you know what, no offence but I just can't cuddle [you] today [or ever]." (The money will then have to be sorted out, but that's a different question.)
I've very nearly done this myself. It was with a cuddle professional I knew well at the time, but when I got there my head was just in the wrong place. I very, very nearly left, but she was kind and patient and understanding and in the end we did cuddle. She absolutely did not have consent to touch me in that instant, and if she had I would have jumped out of the window. It was nothing to do with her, we've had many happy sessions before and since. (Had I left I would obviously still have paid for the whole session.)
Holding hands is platonic for me. If you can cuddle someone for extended periods of time, but not hold hands for a few minutes in public, that seems odd to me. Like you’re trying to hide something. If you are, then maybe the cuddling isn’t appropriate either.
@quincyq03: Well... you might be trying to hide that you're one of those people whose palms sweat way too much for no apparent reason.
Or you might have sensory issues where your hands are just too sensitive for prolonged contact.
Or you might live someplace where it's not safe to be going around holding hands with another guy—the public doesn't always stop to think about the accuracy of their impressions before they act.
Or you might be worried about germs: hands touch lots of things.
Everybody has boundaries in different places.
@DaringSprinter The OP’s question was asking if holding hands is platonic. My opinion is that it is platonic and that it may be slightly hypocritical if a person considers cuddling platonic, but not holding hands. For the reasons I outlined.
@quincyq03: I was responding to the idea that if you can cuddle someone for extended periods of time but not hold hands for a few minutes in public, that makes it seem like you're trying to hide something.
@DaringSprinter if you have sensory and/or germ issues, in most cases, you probably wouldn’t like cuddling either.
@quincyq03: It may surprise you to learn that I, an autistic, have both sensory issues and a love of cuddling.
Different kinds of touch are different, luckily for me.
Edit:
Anyhow, what I wanted to point out here is that there are plenty of non-suspicious reasons somebody might be okay with cuddling but not hand-holding, ranging from sweaty palms to worry about public perception (some people are bothered by that even when they're not actually endangered by what others think—we are a social species).
It might seem suspicious from some perspectives, but it's probably best not to leap to any conclusions.
@DaringSprinter and @quincyq03 I think this kind of thing is EXACTLY the reason why we have verbal consent. We can't assume anything about someone's reasons for doing/not doing physical acts.
I LOVE CUDDLING but for me... Sometimes my fingers tend to go to sleep when "holding hands" in the traditional fingers entwined kind of way. I don't have strong opinions either way but I have my reasons for not doing it for long periods. I met people in a cuddle party and their boundary was to not hold someone else's hand because they had special memories about that. As many here have said its more about what each other person feels about it before it can be "considered" platonic.
@Gallowglass hand holding can absolutely be platonic and beyond that science (💗💗) suggests hand holding can synchronize heart beats, reduce pain and otherwise flood the body with oxytocin.
The reality is the client vaguely referenced here exhibited a strong progressive pattern of romantic attachment towards the younger, vulnerable paid cuddler I was advocating for within this post. That client not only lied to the cuddler but also was reactive when she continually had to restate her boundaries and redirect within and outside of sessions. The client also repeatedly overstepped boundaries and disregarded consent even gas lighting and attempting to pressure, guilt and shame the cuddler into relaxing / adjusting her boundaries. Hand holding was an actual issue but the real focus was consent, respect and boundaries. In defense of the client they did offer financial compensation for the last minute cancellation of the session which they did state was due to the paid cuddler not giving in on the boundary change and how unhappy and uncomfortable the client stated her expressing the boundaries again had made them feel. It could also be said that this was the third last minute cancellation on the part of the client, and that the cuddler declined any compensation but decided not to see the client any more. The client did make, despite their own cancellation and a firm statement of no further sessions being within the best interest of both parties ( by the paid cuddler ) another push for continued sessions but as a whole I feel this speaks to their disregard to both boundaries and consent. The paid cuddler didn’t feel this person was a bad person or even a predator or someone overtly or directly seeking more than a platonic session but rather they may be completely unaware of their disregard or boundaries and failure to secure consent. To them they assumed hand holding was platonic and common and acceptable ect, and that clearly they were entitled to that.
@CuddleDuncan I love what you just contributed to the conversation! Huge valid and amazing points you illuminated ~ nothing can truly be confirmed until meeting, I experience this on a regular basis. More often than not I find myself wayyyyy more relaxed and comfortable with clients than I could have anticipated. Consent is key and can be withdrawn at any time and by any party! Love love love that you brought these points up.
@DaringSprinter Also amazing points you shared!!
@DaringSprinter and @quincyq03 Some of my favorite clients identify as being on the Autism spectrum and also as having OCD concerning germs and other things. The frequency of such clients for me speaks to the fact that they are having beneficial and impactful connections and cuddles on this platform and otherwise which warms my heart. Beyond this, I personally feel that anyone who wants or needs to seek cuddles and connection transactionally or otherwise absolutely should. Of course I am biased because I personally experience the benefits of cuddles on my health and well-being and see that within my clients too! This is definitely not for everyone and that’s ok too, but I strongly feel people can decide that on their own rather than be precluded from something based on how someone who is in no way even connected to such a person feels.
Additionally, I’m all for respectful discussions on divisive topics but this one being so vague and yet so specific has proved in my opinion as the OP, to potentially have been less productive than perhaps encouraging the actual parties involved to just sit down and hash it out may have been. At the end of the day I did want to advocate for the person I know and get varied perspectives but going forward I will try and refrain from actual examples as this is what was told me to me is most triggering to some folks. So I apologize sincerely to anyone who may have taken offense to anything within this thread and with respect to confidentiality and the further possibility of offending people I will think hard about what I post before posting going forward.
✌️😊
Another PSA on public hand holding. If you are holding someone’s hand it inhibits putting your own hands together and squeezing them to make a fart sound which brings a smile to most children when they look and I point at their parent. Such childhood development will be missed as a result—developing a sense that you can frame someone else for anatomical missteps.
@FunCartel Also valid 🤣👏
@FunCartel Pull the other one.