@DaringSprinter That’s a hard no. A cult needs fresh blood, so they will always be looking for the next gullible pea brain. As a result they will always be loitering amongst the “normal” for recruits. I won’t give them the satisfaction. They can believe their trash, but I do not have to tolerate it, nor is it my job to deprogram their twisted minds. This is cuddling, not an intervention.
@FunCartel: Cultish. Not... literal cults.
And no, exposing people to sanity is not your job. But it's not a bad thing to do, either.
@DaringSprinter Well look what happens when they are exposed to sanity here. They are banned. Why? Because they violated the TOS, which protects other people. I have TOS too, even as a client of a pro. Those are mine and I am quite certain I am not alone. Listening and reasoning with hateful people who advocate for their hateful views is a fool’s mission. Would you cuddle all those people you despised at the gas station? I wouldn’t expect you would. They really don’t deserve it.
@DaringSprinter It's a nice thought, but for a lot of people, their beliefs are who they are. Their beliefs determine who they associate with, who they vote for, whose welfare they care about and whose they don't. And the fact is, the kind of people FunCartel is describing would likely not want to cuddle with me or anyone else who doesn't believe as they do. (And we can all list at least one type of person we would not want to cuddle with -- someone who doesn't believe in respecting boundaries.)
@WriterGF Well put. I cannot add anything else to that.
@FunCartel and @WriterGF: Gee. I specifically said "nobody who poses an immediate threat." Someone you personally could cuddle safely. And here's you talking about people who breathe virus onto others and don't respect boundaries, like that's safe somehow.
Here's me talking about how cuddling somebody with harmful beliefs isn't necessarily evil or immoral—and here's you talking about how a lot of people with harmful beliefs refuse to change their minds. Do you think that makes cuddling anyone with bad beliefs a wicked thing to do—that it's immoral to give a "bad" person anything good?
Weird.
@DaringSprinter Tell me how many of those people that you have written about that you despised at the gas station have you cuddled? I kind of posed that question earlier and you ignored it, yet you persist in questioning why there are certain people I won’t cuddle. I told you that is my TOS, and much like the TOS on this site, I really do not feel the need to justify it to you or anyone else. It is what it is.
@FunCartel: The people at the gas station who I despised put me in immediate danger. So obviously I've cuddled none of them, since I don't cuddle people when doing that would endanger me. Which I've said multiple times. Sheesh.
I'm not questioning why there are people you won't cuddle—I'm questioning the validity of this claim:
Hate is efficiently eradicated when the hateful are ostracized. Let them see how their hatred works for them as a lifestyle in their cocoon of hatred.
The idea that there are some people who shouldn't have their basic human needs met, not because meeting those needs would endanger whoever's doing the providing, but because it's better for everybody that those "bad" folks have no one to hang out with but each other... I question that.
Obviously you can and should make your own decisions about who you will and will not cuddle.
But maybe avoid condemning those who are willing to cuddle people with harmful beliefs. It is not the same as saying, "You perpetuate hate, but that's okay."
Hate is not efficiently eradicated when the hateful are ostracized. Refraining from cuddling people who believe hateful things may well be safer for you, is definitely more comfortable... but it is not necessarily a morally superior choice. Those who choose to attempt rehabilitation (even on the smallest level) are not condoning hatred.
Claiming that people with harmful beliefs are beyond help? I question that claim.
And the idea that it's bad to be willing to try to help them, that they need to be punished and any kindness is just encouraging them to be worse—oh, that's a little too Christian for me.
Reading a lot of your thoughtful answers and having many nights to think on this I've gotten a deeper perspective on how many of us feel when it comes to our core beliefs and values.
My volunteer work calls for a great deal of empathy and holding space for individuals no matter their background or personal beliefs. I can extend that unconditionally for the short periods of time necessary as what I am doing is entirely at their request. They may forget my name, my face, but I hope they will always remember I help them feel empowered and safe.
But cuddling and sharing a deeper more intimate part of myself I feel more exposed emotionally as I tend to absorb other people's emotions, both positive and negative.
I think I would find cuddling with someone who stood completely opposite me on some of my strongly held beliefs for equality ,reason and individual autonomy I would probably end up feeling exhausted.
There's enough that exhausts and stresses me in life. Who I choose to cuddle with should not add to it.
But maybe avoid condemning those who are willing to cuddle people with harmful beliefs.
I never condemned anyone who cuddles other people I wouldn’t. I said I wouldn’t. This is the problem with many of your arguments—you extrapolate things that aren’t there and make unwarranted assumptions. Why would I care for a second who someone else cuddles? I don’t. Sheesh.
But if you believe everyone deserves your cuddles regardless of their beliefs, then expand beyond hobgoblin and cuddle these “bad” people you repeatedly proclaim deserve equal opportunity hugs. I have and I have decided I won’t again for the very reason @WriterGF stated—some people are their beliefs. For this reason, I do dismiss your assertions because my conclusions are built on my experiences of having cuddled a couple of people like that, not on my echo chamber of thoughts in my head.
In my experience, ostracism results in cultishly tight-knit groups that band together against the outside world
Share this experience with us. If everyone stopped watching televangelists they and their followers would disappear. If no one supports fill in the blank it would vanish. Movements, beliefs, or fads all die if they wither on the vine from inattention from various forms of ostracism regardless if the form of ostracism is financial, moral, or boredom. Ostracism based on misguided prejudice also produces change—marginalized groups have galvanized in spite of ostracism to affect positive change, so that also runs counter to your unnamed experience.
@KYtranspant That is why I won’t either. I have cuddled with people like that and it is soul-sucking, draining and lowers the level of oxytocin. You shouldn’t cuddle for stress and no one should be required to become a social worker when cuddling.
There's a very good book called The Confidence Game that gets into the psychology of why people won't give up their beliefs even when they are harmful to themselves. Exposing them to "sanity" doesn't do much good.
@FunCartel says, "I never condemned anyone who cuddles other people I wouldn’t. I said I wouldn’t."
You also said if someone has harmful beliefs, then you think cuddling them is the same as telling them it's okay to perpetuate hate. You literally said that.
If someone believes in [harmful things] then I support anyone’s decision not to cuddle said bigot. To me it is the same as saying “You perpetuate hate, but that’s ok. You have a place of comfort here.”
How is saying "so far as I'm concerned, cuddling someone with harmful beliefs is the same as telling them it's okay to harm people" not condemnation?
At the risk of repeating myself ad nauseam:
I'm not saying you, or anyone else, should cuddle someone who believes terrible things. I'm just saying anyone who does is not condoning the beliefs.
if you believe everyone deserves your cuddles regardless of their beliefs
You're extrapolating things that aren't there and making unwarranted assumptions, I'm afraid. Where did I ever say anything about anybody deserving cuddles?
All I said was that the idea of punishment for the "sin" of having bad beliefs is an uncomfortably Christian one.
Share this experience with us.
Okay.
I'm the eldest child of deeply religious parents. As such, I've gotten a front row seat to any number of ostracisms and the reactions thereto.
A minority in the church you're attending thinks homosexuality is okay? Shame them! Preach their wrongness from the pulpit! Shun them during the after-church social hour! And watch them coalesce into a small, tight-knit group that's even more solidly convinced in their divergent belief than ever. Watch them split off into their own, new church which can now be attended a block down the road.
Some people in your church think baptism isn't necessary for salvation? Repeat the steps above! Watch them coalesce and oh, hey, there are more of them than you. Watch them replace the preacher and ostracise you. Band tightly with those who aren't ostracising you, and buy a new church across town!
The local kids make fun of you for being weird religious nut jobs? Band together with the other nut jobs and fail to learn how evolution actually makes sense!
Do you want details on all of my experiences with the phenomenon of bonding and belief reinforcement in social outgroups? Shall I message you with a detailed account of my childhood? Would you like me to write my autobiography for you? Or will this do?
If no one supports fill in the blank it would vanish.
Yes. The problem is that when you're looking at someone who supports a thing, that sort of proves that there isn't no one who supports it, doesn't it?
Don't go pretending that, if you kick everyone who believes X out of the group, it won't create a new group of people who all believe in X.
@WriterGF: Funnily enough, being exposed to sanity worked for me. It's almost as though writing all people with harmful beliefs off as hopeless is a bad move.
So you think cuddling a racist is suddenly going to make them sing Kumbaya? Well, it might, if they were cuddling someone of a different race and seeing that person as a human being ... but what are the odds a bigot is ever going to want that cuddle?
@WriterGF: Aaargh.
Look. It's not going to do anything bad. That's my point. So long as you're safe doing the cuddle, cuddling anybody is not going to hurt anyone.
It's not going to make them any more certain that it's okay to have harmful beliefs than they were before. It might give them a little push in the right direction. And it might not. But either way, nobody's going to be hurt, and nothing bad, wicked, or immoral has been done.
It's just a cuddle. Cripes.
@DaringSprinter I agree. It just cuddling. All human being need affection. You may change their beliefs, you may not. Should that be the main objective in that moment? I'm not sure. I would think it would be for a moment, to get some peace and tranquility in that moment.
@Libra0: Nothing but peace and tranquility is a very valid preference for a cuddle.
And yeah, I never said changing anybody's beliefs should be the main objective of any cuddle—just that it may happen to happen, and even if it doesn't it's not as though you've made anything worse.
To DaringSprinter’s point above… I am living proof that cuddling can change people for the better.
I was not any type of “ist” or “phobe” to start with but I used to be more rigid in my thinking and less empathetic towards others. Not hostile or antagonistic toward anyone, I was just more about logic and less emotion / connection with others.
The pro I have cuddled with the most over the past 6 months has absolutely had a profound impact on me by helping me see and understand other points of view on several issues and to learn more about myself. Neither of us had a goal of influencing the other but as we spent time together in nurturing touch, we had many deep and personal conversations. That sharing of ideas and perspectives, in a warm and safe embrace, really impacted me far more than any logical argument or online debate ever could have.
@JohnR1972: That's some solid back up—thanks.
I was a bigot. An "-ist" and a "-phobe," and self-hating with it (which just made me more certain I was right). I wasn't cuddled out of it, but being treated with kindness and respect by people who knew how bad my beliefs were and didn't pretend to share them... that definitely made a difference.
I couldn't see them as "the enemy"—I couldn't reject their view of things as corrupt or evil or truth-hating. That made it a lot easier to consider their ideas logically. To my surprise, they made a lot of sense. And now here I am!
It's no one's responsibility to do, of course. And it doesn't always work. But if you do... well, it's not a bad thing you're doing. Even if it doesn't work.
Finally clicking into this thread and haven't made it past page 1 yet, but will weigh in on the OP's question...
"Can you cuddle with someone you disagree with on issues, points of view, fandom, lifestyle, etc.?"
I 100% would not be at all okay cuddling with someone I know has foundational differences in their beliefs than I do.
I think it's facinating that there are people who are open to sharing intimate space with some who has an ideology/political stance that is in drastic opposition to theirs. There's just no way that I could. Though to be fair there are also people on here that consider walking in the park or cooking together to be cuddling. If that's the activity then fine I would. But in a bed, exchanging touch, with someone I believe is an active participant in the perpetuation of harm or general degradation of society...?? No way.
It depends on what it is. If there would be some clashing with differences then of course not. If someone likes to get drunk or high I can't cuddle with someone who does that.
Yes. All of my friends and a lot of my family have different beliefs from me. Not really a problem. So a cuddler definitely does not have to share my beliefs.
It depends on the belief and if they express their viewpoint intelligently without emotion and aggression. But if the belief is too stupid and espouses a phobia of groups of people or is fundamentally hateful, then no, it is not happening.
No. I want the person to be a mirror image ,of myself in every way . I want it to feel as though I am literally cuddling with myself.
@pmvines Laughing my hiney off.
@pmvines ummmm, I can't compete with that beard. 😉 You'll just have to settle for my longer hair.
But I'll bet you our sarcasm will be a good match.
Yea my cuddle buddy likes her steak well done and I like it medium rare but we worked out our differences
@chillguy77 you are a better man than I
Depends what it is we disagree on.
If it's something like liking a certain show or movie that I'm not really interested in, then yes I'd still cuddle with that person. Depending what the show is and my reason for not liking it I might suggest watching it latter when I'm not around or will still cuddle and watch with you even if I'm not really into it. The show is not really that important.
If I think it's boring, I'd let you continue watching anyway. If it's something like the Saw movies then I'd ask to please watch something else. But yeah I'd still cuddle.
People aren't always going to like the same things all the time so to expect someone to like everything you do in order to cuddle with them is really unrealistic.
Now if it's something more serious than just disagreeing what to watch on TV...
If I'm not going to feel safe with that person because of the disagreement then no I wouldn't still cuddle with them.