@pmvines Thank you! When you have a virtue hammer, everything seems like a hate nail. It's ridiculous.
And to question why a woman would pay a man is a sexist question
I did apply it to both. It is implied in the quote from me above. It applies to both sexes. The question is sexist towards a woman paying and towards a male having the audacity to charge.
@Mike403 I play phone games…please don’t judge me too harshly. I do own every console and handheld since the NES (minus a few like the CDi and Jaguar) and I have a gaming PC and a steam deck, as well as a Quest 2. I play a lot of games…
@FunCartel Fair enough. There is both empirical and anecdotal data supporting the observation that Women don't pay Men to cuddle. Wondering why a woman would is as sexist as a scientist observing a trend and wondering why an outlier exist.
Why would a woman pay to cuddle a man? They live longer and often spend the last years of their lives touch-starved. Residents in long term care facilities are disproportionately female. That’s one reason. There are other reasons women may be touch-starved. However, there seems to be a greater social stigma associated with a woman paying a man to give them attention and physical comfort.
@slowblink I dont mind a virtue hammer when it is appropriate. It seems cool these days to scoff at that sort of thing. Being woke to the point of indoctrination is one thing , but calling out true prejudice and injustice is totally my bag being that I am a social worker and lean politically to the left . I just dont agree that @Moxytocin is being sexist. Not getting into a debate with @FunCartel et al because I know he means well and is entitled to his opinion, and usually makes.some really good points. Just dont agree on this one . And like I said I know @Moxytocin and where here heart is, and that it likely hurts her to be accused of something like being a sexist.
Contextually speaking, both men and women alike have spoken about the lack of demand for male pro cuddlers .
@pmvines So rather than question it, why not celebrate that progress has been made when it occurs or not say anything at all?? The question is the same as the question as why are they letting black men play pro baseball? when Jackie Robinson came up. When a barrier is broken, those questions, whether you personally think so or not, should be laid to rest. Otherwise, the stigma remains. Anything that is not the norm but should be is never advanced by cherry picking who is allowed to say something against it or if they really meant it. It should just disappear if we truly want a better world without barriers.
It is the same thing as old guys who have pawed women as a friendly gesture all their life and see nothing wrong with it even though women have pointed out that all these years it made them feel uneasy but they never really had the power to object until recently. Their excuse that I didn’t mean anything by it or it’s the way things were when I came up are lame excuses. I mean they are saying they are incapable of change and that is an extremely sad statement on our society if we accept that.
I just dont agree that @Moxytocin is being sexist.
@pmvines Ah, there is the rub. I never said she is sexist, but she did post a sexist statement. There is a huge difference. In a previous post I pointed this out by saying someone who makes a sexist statement or a sexist question just may not have thought through the question completely. That doesn’t make them sexist, but the question does remain in the sphere of sexism.
@pmvines Well said. Relative to the metaphor, a virtue hammer is never ideal. People should have a virtual scalpel where every situation is thought through thoroughly and all the idiosyncrasies and nuances are analyzed carefully. Otherwise, we are just as unhelpful and even hurtful as those who generalize loosely without education or empathy. It was very obvious that @Moxytocin wasn't being sexist. Twas a simple question that @warm_embrace answered beautifully. The social stigma that women shouldn't or shouldn't have to is real and invalidates women that do or need to but Moxy clearly wasn't suggesting that.
@smoothvibes80 - Real talk. She should cut it short but pay the hour to get rid of the bum. If it is a longer session then it comes down to what her gut tells her. If there are no serious red flags, offer a fraction of the money. If there are vibes of hearing about her body being found in the woods on the 6 o'clock news, I would recommend cutting the session short but pay the full amount. It's only money.
Sorry she had a horrible experience. Make sure she leaves a review to warn others. If the cuddler was a young man, they love their phones. Older men can be as bad (myself included) but most still can remember how to live without a device in their hand.
Other women seem to like meeting in public first before agreeing to private cuddles. Good way to separate the wheat from the chaff. This would allow her to walk away without a worry about personal safety.
@Moxytocin wasn't being sexist
Never said she was sexist. I said the question by itself is sexist. There was no context. To you it wasn’t sexist, but to someone else it is. I am quite sure a make pro doesn’t appreciate that question and a female client definitely doesn’t.
You are again extrapolating something that isn’t there—in this case, that I said she is sexist. Words and people are two different things.
@marcustanaka That is some great advice for the woman going forward. Public meeting is a great place to ask him what a session with him is like. I ask that question and it is meant to elicit their thoughts or philosophy on cuddling. If they say I just cuddle it raises red flags because to me it means they haven’t put much thought into it. But if a pro comes back and describes a session on basic terms and then turns the question back on me and asks what I expect or like in a session then I know I have a winner.
I think this is her boundary to set since she is the one paying and I think it’s the same for men paying as well. No difference if the person paying is male or female.
Also, I play phone games, and enjoy them lol! I’m a female, and I think the idea of paying a man or a woman for cuddles actually seems pretty appealing if I’m the one who is touch starved and wanting touch.
@saltwaterlover As should anyone! And it really is no one’s business if you pay someone or not.
@FunCartel Now you're just splitting hairs. How about a hypothetical?
Let's say we have a sinking boat and two groups that make up the occupants. The groups are purely differentiated by age and size. People in Group A are ages 1-50. People in Group B are ages 51-80. Group A is twice the size of Group B and the size of the life boat can only hold 60% of all the passengers. Someone from Group A suggest that because Group A is bigger and younger(meaning they have more lives and more potential life to live), that Group A should fill the boat first with any space left over going to Group B. Is said person from Group A ageist for suggesting that since people from Group B likely don't appreciate it?
@FunCartel yyou are right , you didnt say she is sexist but that her words were. I do apologize for assuming you meant she herself was sexist.
That being said , usually when someone says someone is being a.certain way or saying certain things, the implication is assumed that they are themselves that way . You can see how easy it is to make that leap of assumption.
@pmvines This. Otherwise, Donald Trump wasn't sexist for saying "Grab em by the p****". Just his words were sexist. At what point does Donald become sexist and not just his words or actions?
The statement implied that it wasn't even worth having this thread because it never happens. That's especially insulting considering how inexpensive it is to have the thread -- some 1s and 0s on a hard drive? Internet throughput? Some people's attention? It's not like we have scarce resources we have to allocate efficiently here.
Also, it's pretty insulting to those who actually do it.
Cant accommodate every single person who might be offended by a comment. Not realistic . Sure you can say to just keep your thoughts to yourself, but we are all adults and should be capable of not taking everything so personally. Until we are able to have discussions and discourse without slinging poop and getting triggered over every little thing , threads will continue to be closed and more differing opinions and semi controversial topics will be censored. Then the forums will all be about what we watch on tv, favorite snacks , and rainbow gifs. Yuck
I thought it was one of those riddles where the answer is the obvious thing stated in the first sentence that everyone overlooks.
@pmvines The originating comment also broke the following forum rules:
The rule about baiting is also debateable.
Cant accommodate every single person who might be offended by a comment. Not realistic . Sure you can say to just keep your thoughts to yourself, but we are all adults and should be capable of not taking everything so personally.
Please do not insinuate that because I took offense to something you don't approve of that I'm acting like a child. You are not the arbiter of what is okay to be upset about and not.
@zerocantaloupe It's well-known - and there are threads dedicated to the topic -that male pros get very few requests and when they do, they're mostly from men.
There’s nothing wrong with stating the obvious fact that women are a lot less likely to pay men to cuddle than vice versa. In fact despite its obviousness there seem to be a lot of people who don’t get this, so maybe it should be stated even more often and more clearly.
However, occasionally when women on this forum discuss differences between the male and female experience, they use phrasing such that they seem
This is not helpful and is likely to contribute to men feeling exactly the kind of resentment towards women we all want them not to feel.
@CuddleWho Agreed, and ironically then defended with the same rationalizations ("we're just stating the truth") and shaming techniques ("you're too emotional") used by men against women.
Okie dokie then . Nice speech. Not sure it will actually change my opinion on anything in the least but go you ....
@zerocantaloupe So nothing can be said that even risk a single person potentially feeling unwelcome. wow...no wonder no one uses the forums. I wash my hands of all this.
Wow, this post turned into an absolute train wreck from the start.
How about we all take a collective breath.
Now let's reframe the question...
"A person pays another to come cuddle with them. The cuddler comes over and all they care to do is play games on their phone while sitting next to the person with limited conversation. How long should the person wait to tell them to get the hell out and never come back? Asking for a friend."
Now, no matter how flawed the premise or how urgently you still want make your point about sexism, gender, etc. simply stop yourself. It's that easy. Then try answer this question as best you can.
If you can't, simply move on.
If you want to further discuss gaming, sexism, or the price of tea in China, feel free to make your own thread on that topic.
I would say end it the moment they started playing a game. I play plenty of games on my phone, but that is just disrespectful of the other cuddler and their time.
15 minutes if it bothers you, and that’s a lot of grace if you paid.
It's a bit rude to respond to "when doing a rare thing, this problem occurred: what should be done about the problem" with "who does that rare thing?"
The person on whose behalf the question is being asked, obviously. They do that.
A response like @Moxytocin's is just mockery. "Who would do that? Why would anyone do that?"
Kind of rude.
Anyway, if you've hired a pro cuddler and they're not cuddling you the way you want to be cuddled, I'd say communication is key: tell them what you want, and then if they don't provide it you can end the session without being unfair.