@stdisc0827 I have no pain. I learned my lesson. And I am glad for it. The deposit can be seen as a boundary and layer of protection to these ladies and I wanted to ignite a thought to why a deposit is seen as a deterrent. I think that some scams are definitely hard to avoid, for sure. Hope I don't seem inconsiderate cause I am very considerate, overly considerate but still gotta ask the hard questions. For my desire to be that strong to send money to a stranger before I just go along with what the person has told me in a couple sentences, is an inward issue. Edit: does the full story ever get told? Not for others to resolve for my betterment. Now maybe my attentions is most grabbed by the boundary issue and I can admit that so I will look into the stories of abuse by a pro to get a better understanding.
Hehe… 🙃
I'm just gonna put here...
Anyone uncomfortable with the idea of giving a deposit without legal protection - you do know you can refuse to do so without some form of written contract and other documentation that you could then take to court to sue the professional for failure to uphold should they not deliver or refund? Right? More than a receipt - get a written and mutually signed and dated contract stating what the deposit is for and what will happen if either party fails to uphold the agreement. Professional Services Pre-Payment 101.
Pros - word of advice: If/when I were to take a deposit as an independent contractor, I would always protect myself and the client with some form of written contract stating the purpose of the deposit, the date of receipt, the proposed services, the consequences for either side of breaking contract, AND any terms of mutual backing out. It's standard professional service agreement practice that builds trust with clients and protects your ass should something go not as planned. There's legally sound contract templates available online, but J would also recommend contacting your local Small Business Association who offer free advice to make sure yours covers all necessary details
More than 10 recent reviews and a detailed profile? A deposit is ok. No reviews, and shitty profile? No deposit.
Regardless of anybody's perosnal opinion its all about choices. You can choose to ask for a deposit, and you can choose to decline giving a deposit. What both parties choose to do from there is up to them as there is no rule re deposits on this site. I can understand points from both sides as being valid.
I don't have a dog in the fight, just will only say do what you are comfortable doing and know your boundaries. It does go both ways and whether agreed or not , the right to decide to charge a deposit and also to decline a request to pay one are indeed both rights of the individual. Both sides can simply walk away without having to justify it.
Just don't turn it into another reason to get pissy about pros because the resentful attitudes are already rampant, and some of y'all will take any chance you get to pick apart something about pros you don't like and moan and groan about it all the live long day. Not saying all of you do this nor am I talking about specific people, but yeah, it's a thing. And it's noticed, and we are tired of it.
@pmvines thank you! the resentment is very weird and makes me uncomfortable. I worry that one of these people with these attitudes towards the pros might book with me.
@pmvines - maybe I'd misread the room, but I hadn't taken this thread as some heated argument. I read it as honest questions from both cuddlers ("am i the only one with these concerns?") and professionals ("why would this be an issue?").
But your point on rampant "anti-pro" resentment and pointless griping is very well taken.
@Halfnuggie / @mimtheplantmom - if any of my comments came across as questioning the motives of "pros" or griping about their chosen rules, I'd like to apologize. That was definitely not my intent.
At the risk of making it worse, i'll try to clarify myself:
Every cuddler - professionals included - should have the absolute right to define the rules they need to feel safer and more secure, and screen out bad actors. Requiring a deposit is a valid business practice to reduce risk, but its bound to over-screen and discourage legit customers who are vetting their own options / risks.
For the "pro", if there is enough demand losing some good customers may still be their preferred trade-off if it screens out bad actors and reduces enough risk. That is their choice to make, as long as it is an informed choice that should be ok for everyone involved.
For a first customer, all things being equal a deposit is a net risk (particularly online, where the risks are often beyond the deposit amount) and it is a reasonable precaution to just move on to any other options with less risk. They don't need to assume a high-rate of scammers, just compare zero and non-zero risk.
This issue is not unique to this industry, and I'd think is a reason why deposits for intangibles / service industries are not such a common practice (vs for tangible property, rentals, supplies, renting a space, etc).
My other (badly made) point was that if a "pro" needs a deposit as part of your vetting requirements, as a potential cuddler there are common phrases / patterns which can trigger my online skepticism bias, and there are ways to frame your process and requirements professionally that mitigates my personal concerns far more effectively than negotiating deposit amount, etc.
Quite apart from vetting requirements, if a pro has booked a session and the client cancels last minute, that is time and money lost to the pro since there is no time to schedule someone else. Most contractors I have dealt with want at least some money up front.
@protectoratum I'd like to point out a bit of perhaps unintentional self contradiction within your last comment -
You say it's not your intent to question the motives of pros, but then you keep putting the word pro in quotation marks - which to the audience indicates that you question the validity of that title. It's demeaning to pros, and rampant in these forums, and it's that very sort of passive agressive coded language that puts us and supportive enthusiasts/clients on edge.
So if your intent is truly to not lump all professionals together and portray to readers that you think all are fake, scammers, invalid, etc.... Use your language to better match your values. You can use qualifying adjectives or other terms instead of quotation marks when talking specifically about the bad actors: unethical pros, scammers, fake pros, fake accounts, etc.
@protectoratum, you say that deposits are uncommon for intangible services. The definition of tangible is: perceptible by touch. I would be tangible in this scenario since the service is touch, and I am giving and receiving touch. Imagine if I owned a moon bounce that I rented out for birthday parties, and for my business to be profitable, I needed it rented out every weekend. If I were a savvy business owner, I would ask my customers to deposit to ensure that I would get compensated even if they had to cancel because renting it out for another party on short notice would be tough. In this scenario, I am the moon bounce my only way of generating an income is by being physically present, and I can only be in one place at a time. Therefore my time is precious as I need to have a lot of sessions to pay for all of my overhead fees (I have two offices) and pay myself a livable income. I cannot afford to gamble a spot on my calendar on a new client who may not show up. I also have to wash sheets to prepare for a session, and I have to drive to my office or the client's home, and I have to pay rent on office spaces which are all very tangible things.
It is unfortunate that one bad experience casts a bad light on a profession but that's the way it is in some professions, including cuddling. It is not my intent to put all professional cuddles into one box; many perform a valuable service but because of some personal/life experiences I personally am not comfortable with advance deposits.
This is my opinion only and I may well be in the minority.
@houdini2019 Well I agree with you, but I don’t begrudge a pro asking for a deposit. They just won’t be a pro I book with. The two times I paid a deposit when I first came to this site they ghosted and deleted their profile. That will never happen again. I have never had a problem finding pros who don’t ask for a deposit. That is just my boundary and I stick to it. I will never try and talk a pro who asks for a deposit out of asking for a deposit. Just not productive or worth it.
@houdini2019 I don't know if you are in the minority or not and it doesn't make a bit of difference if you are. You are entitled to your opinions. Prepaying a deposit is a risk for someone just as not receiving a deposit can be a risk for someone else. This is part of the world of business and can only be resolved by the participants. I hope you continue to pursue this wonderful world of cuddling.
LOL, don't pay deposits. You are not protected against it. It's easy, ask the pro you aren't comfortable and can you still see me without it.
@cuddlefaery - sorry if quoting pro gave that impression, there's no subtext/code there but I'll refrain from doing that in the future.
In no place on my message did "pro" mean anything other than professional. Literally.
Using an not commonly used contraction in the middle of a sentence feels weird to me, language wise without some clue its a contraction / term of art. My brain keeps trying to parse it as a different full word (pro as in affirmative, pros /cons, etc) - quoting or italicizing is a way to put context on that.
But in the context of how people use air quotes in english language, I can see how that can be misinterpreted.
@WriterGF - yes, that is correct, and if as a client I cancelled or no-showed, I would expect the cuddler to charge a fee. And to report a case of non-payment. That is pretty standard.
But again, most service industries do not handle that as a deposit. At least in my experience: from doctors to barbers to plumbers to dentists... will have a cancellation policy and fees, but do not require a deposit. I've never paid a deposit for a restaurant reservation, unless I'm renting a dining room. I've paid deposit for a contractor, but thats because they are buying supplies / repair components before they show up for the work.
Does not mean its unreasonable or hints at bad motivations, just that its not standard, and requires more trust from the customer than usual. Expect many customers to opt out.
@xandriarain - seems I'm struggling with the language today...
By "intangibles" I meant what pure service industries, where the exchange is for professional expertise and time vs tangible assets, property, real state or improvements (e.g. if I hire a contractor to remodel my kitchen).
For whatever reason, the common practices of the latter tend to be different - there are deposits, insurances, liabilities, etc.
That does not make your time (or mine) less valuable - on the contrary, it is very scarce and valuable for both parties. Its just not commonly insured that way, again at least in my experience.
You have every right and reason to protect your time, however you find it most effective. If you are making an informed choice and decide requiring a deposit works best for you, then that is unambiguously good.
There is no value judgement on making that choice, informedly.
There was a subjective opinion from me on how some profiles present that choice better than others, which perhaps was not welcome.
@xandriarain You are correct in what you are doing if you own a moon bounce. The deposit you collected will help you if your customer doesn’t show up… Now think other way.. as a customer I deposit money and book the place and on the day of the party, i show up with all the guests, but you can’t accommodate and mentioning some problem what should I do? Go and immediately find another place to celebrate birthday party.. ?? LoL 😂
A pro taking money and not showing up or denying services or not keeping the obligation is same as this..
if cuddle pros are compared to shopping experience, how about I buy something and return it because the item is not as per my expectations or how it has been published. It is perfectly fine since we all do that.. Similarly on the pictures, if pros don’t have at least couple of pics, then how will the cuddler know what he is paying for… and if the cuddler asks for more pics to understand about the Pro why is it assumed as picture collector?
I know I am clubbing two different threads but I feel that these analogies will bring in more confusion. For a good cuddle session, both parties should take equal responsibility and have mutual respect… that’s my take
@stdisc0827 You raise an interesting point, but the OP in the Pictures thread already had four pics up, including full body shots. So there was no legit reason to ask for more pics. The debate there isn't about someone having next to no pictures up.
I feel very bad some of you here judge all pro as deposit-scammer, just bc had bad experience with it once ( Sorry to hear that had happened to some-of you) , the 3rd comment on this post even said : “ Even if they have tons of karma.“ ??!! I really want to ask : will you judge all German as Hilter ?
As a Pro for over 2 years here , at the first beginning I didn’t ask for a $30 deposit rule in my profile, as I knew my profile was new and has less than 20 karmas , I know and understand very well that it’s very hard to let people trust a poor profile without quality karmas, I questioned myself : why would they trust you and send money to you ? Depends on what ? On a ID name and some pictures everybody can download easily from instagram? So back then , I worked very hard to build my profile to be a reliable one that would definitely be over qualified than $30 deposit, I got stood-ups after I traveled an hour by train to a client’s place , also got the last minute canceled after I’ve already booked a hotel in other city, got no-shows after I changed my dentist appointment for the client……. Finally, I built a profile that I cherish each quality karmas ( I care about quality not quantity) I gained.
I’ve clicked into this post several times and tried to be silent , but I’m fail : This post and some comments make me feel so terrible that seems I would prefer screw up my CC profile here , that I have spent over 2 years effort to build, just for a $30 deposit ??! Jesus…
Don’t judge us as deposit-scammers if some of your unlucky experience due to investing time & money to a new profile with attractive low market prices and sexy pictures but without any quality karmas, you knew what you were looking for.
@protectoratum understood, and thus why I was pointing it out. Text communication can be difficult to read tone and context sometimes.
But regarding other professions charging for late cancellation and no-shows... There is no system in place on CC for collecting and validating credit card numbers from clients, and the industry is largely cash based. Thus the need for deposits in situations where in other industries a contract guaranteed with validated credit cards that can be charged if the contract is broken.
I worked in hospitality for 16 years and hotels that still take cash payments upon check in will often do this - you'll put down a large cash deposit at check in as guarantee that you won't damage the room, and at check out your room will be inspected before your deposit is returned. If damages are discovered, your deposit is kept to cover the damages. This is becoming far less common though as people prefer to use cards for their many protections over cash, and as the few cash deposit transactions tend to end up being problematic.
Pros on this site would have to be able to collect credit card numbers and real names, validate the cards (make sure they real), verify they have the funds to cover any fees, and have the client sign a contract. Considering how reluct clients are to even show ID or provide a deposit at all, I highly doubt they'd be willing to provide us their full credit card numbers and personal details. And CC will not do it - they are not a booking agency, simply a networking site. Pros that have their own booking site through say Square could perhaps direct clients to book through there to have Square do the card validation & verification, but then CC requires that we do all booking on site.
Collecting a deposit is the simplest option with the least amount of privacy issues for all involved. Clients just need to be more aware of how to avoid internet scams in general, how to vet their pros just as pros vet their clients. That doesn't mean it's the client's fault if they are scammed - the fault lies fully on the scammer, but that doesn't mean we all shouldn't learn how to best protect ourselves. With new technology we've all had to learn how to not fall for Nigerian Princes, popup ads, scam phone calls, etc. Unethical professionals in any business tend to all use the same tactics dressed up differently, so we just have to learn the skills to spot them.
@WriterGF In the same post in reference to pictures I had mentioned that a fully sized pic and a face pic is enough. But they have to be closer to reality and if sometime someone asks for couple more the client should not be thought as picture collector.
I don’t think anyone is calling pros deposit scammers on this thread. I do think there are a lot of people saying they won’t pay a deposit and there is nothing wrong or unethical about that, just as charging a deposit is the prerogative of any pro that wishes to do so. Most pros do not charge a deposit and I have had no issues finding them. I am not hurting anyone by my choices and I will continue this practice.
All I ask of a pro asking for a deposit is to respect my choice to use pros that do not charge deposits as I respect your choice to charge a deposit. We do not live in a perfect world but we can respect each others choices even if we disagree on the whys of those choices.
Personally I prefer deposits as a client. Allows me to confirm with the Person and booking well ahead of time. Generally I find those suggesting deposits are very professional and communicate well during the booking process. When the book process is complicated or too open ended, I will avoid booking all together. Deposit, book, public meet and cuddle - easy peasy. That is just me
After being ghosted last minute with several different scheduled seemingly legitimate cuddlers, I am more inclined to require a deposit. Those cancels cost me precious time with my other responsibilities that are important to me and dear to my heart. A total of several days at this point.
I feel like if you haven’t chatted with a pro long enough to trust 25 bucks to ensure they commit a time to you, you haven’t spent enough time to ensure your safety with them. Just find a cuddler who works for you. The easy come easy go parties may be easier to book, but you get what you put skin in the game for. I find that to be true in every area of life. Show up and be showed up for 💫💞
If a person is taking money and not showing up, report them. This site is the best I have found at regulating crooks. I appreciate that as well.
The easy come easy go parties may be easier to book, but you get what you put skin in the game for.
That is a huge assumption to make about other pros that don’t take a deposit that have far more experience and karma than many on this thread. Also a false supposition to say that if one doesn’t want to pay a deposit that it is because one hasn’t chatted with a pro long enough.
I understand the boundaries pros put up and I respect them. If I see a pro that says a deposit is required I do not waste their time by even messaging them. There are plenty of pros to message who don’t. If they say I don’t cuddle in the morning and I want a 9 AM session, I don’t bother them. Pretty simple.
I also understand not trashing pros for their pricing—anyone can charge whatever they want and their price is their price. I don’t haggle. I respect the hustle and let the market dictate the rates and I pay what I feel comfortable with. These are all boundaries we should respect.
What I don’t get in this thread is when people say they won’t pay a deposit that some pros insinuate the pros who don’t charge a deposit are somehow inferior or trashier than themselves (pro on pro trashing), that by stating a preference one is attacking pros, or that one should be paying a deposit because they somehow don’t know how to vet a pro. All of these are assumptions. It just feels like no one is respecting the boundaries of those who choose not to book with a pro who charges a deposit, and my take away is all this talk about mutual respect touted on this site is lip service.
I fully get cancellations and the constant pushing against your boundaries. I get you want to charge a deposit. I totally support and will pay a travel fee if I am several miles away or crosstown. But I see it as foolhardy after being robbed twice after paying a deposit to try a third time. I won’t pay a deposit and that is my boundary. Respect what you want respected—boundaries.
P.S. This is NOT aimed at anyone specifically, but at the responses by many pros on here arguing why we should pay a deposit. Why persist with people who have already drawn their line in the sand and state this is my limit?
@FunCartel there are indeed plenty of cuddlers who have very valid reasons and boundaries around not paying deposits.
The problem is that when every few days a new thread is started questioning the validity of deposits, and the same few vocal anti-deposits people are the main ones to respond in depth, it validates the distrust in pros as a whole and adds to a forum-wide narrative that I (and I'm sure many others) have observed: that most pros here are in it for the money, scammers, not legitimate business people, etc. That may not be the intent of those speaking up with their whys of not paying deposits, but I can assure you that that is the observable effect. It's created a feedback loop that is damaging how professional cuddlers are viewed here and is forwarding stigma when we should be working to end it. It's why I've started responding by linking back to past conversations rather than repeating myself ad nauseum.
@Sideon @Charlie_Bear et al Just a thought - what if when frequently discussed topics like this one pop up, especially if they already have a sticky, they got locked and merged as soon as mods see them? It would serve multiple purposes: cut down on the number of threads on the same topic, help refer people to past discussion on the same topic, and help with organization and navigation.
For new clients and clients that are very far away I require a 30% deposit of the total session cost. It covers my transportation fee as I do not host.
If a pro takes your deposit and ghosts you can report them. CC doesn't take kindly to scammers!
@cuddlefaery there is not a weekly thread on deposits. Deposits comes up maybe once a year. You are conflating pricing threads with deposits with all due respect. The only ones who are creating a damaging feedback are those vehemently underlining that that is their perception. The guy (OP) was ripped off, he asked if this has happened before and if anyone else felt the way he did and many of us asked and answered WITHOUT attacking pros. These are paying clients and they have as much right to share their experiences and choices as pros do as long as they are respectful. I do not feel respected as a client on this thread in the same way as I would respect a pro that had just been ripped off in one of the many threads pros post about their trials and tribulations. I understand the challenges pros face but no one was undermining pros in any way when they say they choose not to pay a deposit. It’s pretty simple—it’s a choice. Don’t disrespect it based on your perception that it might undermine pros.
Our choices not to pay a deposit are not going to change the perception of pros by clients. I will continue to see the pros I wish to see and really, do you want someone that is that easily manipulated by some knuckleheads who actually do complain about pros as a client? Sounds like a client that disappears with a gentle breeze. But not paying a deposit as some mods already stated is freedom of choice on CC.
I am done debating this because I stated my boundary. Persisting in trying to suppress people’s opinions on this subject is boundary pushing of sorts and censorship when people are stating opinions and their boundaries while not attacking anyone.
As a cuddler for almost 5 years and almost 300 karma reviews: I have never had a deposit. That absolutely does NOT mean I am any better or worse than cuddlers who do offer them.
What I do offer is consistency and proof of that. I have had clients who just pre-pay months in advance and call it good. I have clients who do payment plans with me that have never ghosted me or shorted me. Because I have literally cuddled them for years and we've built that trust and lots of communication.
Not everyone is going to get me as a professional. 😆😆😆 so save a little room for those that have deposits, especially if they have good karma and a detailed profile. They're just as caring and honest, but bad apples come in all shapes and sizes and we all deserve to choose how we protect our time, energy, and cash flow.
I am an anomaly in the platonic cuddling world for many reasons -- connection is my priority, but I definitely do not like my time being wasted. especially since I'm fully booked typically when I travel. I just purposely find rooms and bnbs that have hot tubs or a giant soaking tub for my own personal down time and a good book/show.
You can't control when someone cancels. But you can control how you respond to it. On both ends.
Now my time isn't being "wasted" when a client cancels. And I'm indulged in self care when I'm canceled on. The facts are this: don't count on others for your financial budgets/earnings until the session is complete and paid. You'll eliminate that personal disappointment with that mentality.
If you don't like deposits, just move on to the next pro. I don't understand why it can't be that simple. 🥸