Medical Aid in Dying

[Deleted User]Mman (deleted user)
in General

I just listened to an NPR show on this topic. One that I have not given any thought to before. Now it has peaked my interest. It seems like a viable and humane option for some people. Currently ten states and DC have enacted laws allowing for this under certain guidelines and several others have it under consideration. Please share your thoughts if you want and respect the opinions of others.

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Comments

  • Lisa123Lisa123

    I absolutely agree under certain circumstances. We are kind enough to animals by putting them down so they won't suffer. Why do we not afford the same kindness to humans?

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @Mman Can you be a bit more specific? Are we talking heroic measures, assisted suicide, or something else?

  • BearBear

    I agree with this, as long as it is done in a painless manner and is Legal . Usually it’s the family members who are not open to it. Not the ones experiencing the pain or such to stay alive. As well as the struggle. So I would agree in extreme circumstances.

  • [Deleted User]Mman (deleted user)

    @BoomerSpooner I guess Medical Aid in Dying is the new term for assisted suicide.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    Ah so assisted medical suicide. Oregon has had it for years. I believe it is a necessity if we truly believe in bodily autonomy. However I do believe in steps to getting there such as a third party, non-healthcare affiliated, non-relative or friend to evaluate the wishes and concerns of the patient. Without that there can be self-interests influencing decisions such as a spouse wishing to rid themselves of the patient, a Catholic hospital who will reject the patient because they view it strictly as suicide, or just a greedy doctor. There are also insurance questions attached to such decisions as well as psychological assessments before making such a final and irrevocable step.

    But in theory and in practice this is a matter of a patient’s decision IMO.

  • JasonCuddlesJasonCuddles

    I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone what they can or cannot do with their life, unless they're harming others. If that means that they choose to end their life that's their choice.

    I think in the case of assisted suicide I would want to really make sure that the person wanted to die. In some cases it's easy to understand, but there is a giant grey area that is difficult to deal with.

    I am not someone who knows enough about this topic to say how to go about this, I just think it should be discussed and implemented in at least some cases right away.

  • [Deleted User]Mman (deleted user)
    edited June 2023

    It does allow for a person to experience end of life on their own terms.

  • [Deleted User]YabYumist (deleted user)

    We didn't have a choice when we entered this world. I think you should have a choice if you want out. Not providing a humane option is actually the most inhumane thing you can do. There have been people in my life that have committed suicide and all of those endings were gruesome. There's better ways for sure.

    Fun fact: Dr. Kevorkian played jazz flute.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    Another reason we should be allowed to make our own end of life decisions is that DNRs can be overridden by a doctor and there are a plethora of situations this can occur. So even though you think you have made a commitment to DNR it is still not entirely in your hands. Only medical assisted end of life options are entirely your decision.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel
    edited June 2023

    https://www.practicalbioethics.org/

    https://www.practicalbioethics.org/?s=End+of+life+ethics&id=1468&post_type=post

    https://www.practicalbioethics.org/shared-decision-making-and-advance-care-planning/end-of-life-ethics/ambivalence-about-end-of-life-planning-and-assisted-suicide/

  • [Deleted User]Mman (deleted user)

    Hmm, I did not know that about DNR.

  • [Deleted User]MrAdmirer (deleted user)
    edited June 2023

    It's so sad that we need to have 'laws' around this. People should be able to go out on their own terms and with dignity. I've already stated to my family that if my quality of life is reduced to a bedside, I'm ending it. Then I can get organized, say goodbyes and leave everyone in a happy place with the decision.

    If my mind is no longer functioning (dementia, etc), then they have the right to end it for me. I don't want to be a burden to anyone.

    Having laws to put a stop to this is very selfish. It's only going to cause unnecessary and potentially messy suicides that leave trauma to everyone else. I'm sure the the only reasons we have laws in the first place is to protect insurance companies as opposed to actually caring about the human angle.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @Mman

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1496446/

    This is only one of many scenarios. They are well-intentioned I suppose but ultimately, in my opinion, misguided.

  • Ironman294Ironman294
    edited June 2023

    And then there’s Canada
    Have Assisted Dying Laws Gone Too Far?
    https://thewalrus.ca/assisted-dying/

  • [Deleted User]Mman (deleted user)
    edited June 2023

    @MrAdmirer Your comment on insurance companies makes me wonder whether this procedure would be covered. Also, would this negate a life insurance policy that doesn't cover suicide.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @Mman Insurance and greed were issues I brought up in an earlier post. The other question is Catholic hospitals rejected abortions and would they be made to assist in dying because that goes against their dogma if this became a patient’s right. This is why we need third party facilitators to ensure proper boxes are checked.

  • [Deleted User]MrAdmirer (deleted user)

    @Mman What I think would happen is if that someone is going to plan to get medical aid in dying, then (a) an insurance company could refuse to pay out on an existing life insurance policy or (b) refuse to issue new policies to potential client unless they sign some kind of waiver stating the policy is void if they getting assistance in dying.

    And yeah, I don't any insurance health insurance plans would cover this.

    You ca see the gray area here, and of course it's all about money....

  • [Deleted User]Mman (deleted user)

    @BoomerSpooner I agree with the third party scenario. And thanks for the links.

  • [Deleted User]Mman (deleted user)

    @Ironman294 Interesting link. I guess there is the chance of it going too far.

  • LetsCuddle505LetsCuddle505
    edited June 2023

    We are not the owners of our bodies or souls, but Allah is. It is the result of godlessness that we have lost our family structure and feel lonely all the time, otherwise, we wouldn't have needed websites like these to patch up our loneliness. When I look at societies with traditional values and family structures, family members (children, siblings, nephews, nieces, and sometimes cousins,...) will give up all their resources just to be able to keep their elderly individual whom they love, alive for even one more day.
    WHAT COULD BE MORE DISAPPOINTING THAN HAVING YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS SEE YOU WHEN YOU KILL YOURSELF AND CALL IT A HAPPY MEMORY?! I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT PEOPLE HAVE BECOME NOW.

    Reported and reviewed due its religious nature. Leaving intact but wrapping in a spoiler tag. Any responses will be removed to avoid a flame war. (I was late to the party so please report responses after my next mod note below.) [Charlie_Bear]

  • [Deleted User]Mman (deleted user)

    @LetsCuddle505 I appreciate your perspective. I wonder if most families would be supportive or is it better to watch your loved one suffer.

  • lucybug1985lucybug1985

    I agree given a medical check up and the reasoning behind it is heavily weighed.. doctor would be ultimately responsible and would need to know without a doubt this was the best option for the client.

    I say this because my father is at stage 4 cancer and is relying purely on the chance he gets a clinical trial in TN.. a board of directors currently has his life in their deciding hands as to whether or not he will even receive this possible treatment. My father is now in so much pain he cannot sleep comfortably in bed, he can barely eat anything most days, despite being terribly hungry.. If I were in my father's shoes and knew he wanted to suffer no more I would support him but still obviously be devastated. The topic brings tears to my eyes.. it isn't right that we can offer peace to our little furry loved ones, but not the family that supported us from the day we were brought into the universe.

    It is such a sensitive topic for so many, and for sooo many reasons. This is just MY take on things. Let the patient and physician/family decide what is needed to give the best medical care they could ask for. 💞💔

  • [Deleted User]Mman (deleted user)

    @lucybug1985 Thank you for your touching and very personal post. It is definitely a sensitive subject and I appreciate your thoughts.

  • lucybug1985lucybug1985

    @Mman thank you 🥲🫂

  • Lisa123Lisa123

    My mom was very sick and dealt with so much for so many years. I'll never forget when she told me that she couldn't do it anymore. That she couldn't swallow one more pill. I was pregnant with my first child and my heart broke instantly, but what was worse was watching her slowly die for almost 3 weeks. It was the most difficult thing I've ever gone through and instead of just feeling sadness when she finally passed, I mostly felt relief. I wouldn't wish that situation on anyone.

  • [Deleted User]Mman (deleted user)

    @Lisa123 So sorry you and your mom had to experience that situation. Unfortunately ,
    that scenario plays out millions of times each year.

  • Lisa123Lisa123

    @Mman I work in the medical field and find it difficult to deal with adult children doing anything and everything possible to keep their parents living. The amount of tests, exams, treatments, etc. performed because the children insist, not what is necessarily best for the patient makes me angry. My kids know that when I'm done, I'm done.

  • [Deleted User]Mman (deleted user)

    @Lisa123 I probably couldn't do the work that you do. Thank you for being there for people.
    I could not have had that type of conversation with my parents but I certainly have with my kids. I am glad you have also.

  • JubalJubal

    Yes, I think that an elderly person, or someone with a terminal or irreversible condition, should have the right to refuse medical treatments and ask for whatever pain medication, etc, will allow them to peacefully and painlessly die.

  • pmvinespmvines

    I work in hospice and often times people get hospice confused with assisted suicide. I believe in palliative, compassionate care when aggressive treatment is not an option or desired . So I feel like assisted suicide certainly has its place under that umbrella.

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