@AllAboutSoul - On a cuddle site of all places. Who wants to cuddle with somebody who openly shows disrespect?
@SammyG_
OP’s question seems innocuous enough, but predictably, some here are using it as another opportunity to slam someone for being “demanding” on pros. Seriously, go back and read it and ask yourself if dude’s question was actually offensive, rude, needy, or demanding.
But that's the thing! I'm not just slamming OP here, because what I see in them is my past self! OP's post precisely mirrors my thoughts back when I was 28 and making my first efforts to try dating apps. I constantly thought, "why can't they just have the decency to tell me no?". And what I ultimately learned was that the problem was me and my lack of experience. You can't blame women for trying to keep themselves safe.
Back then, I would often break points 4 and 5 from my previous post; These two behaviors were enough to set off most people's "creep radar".
Basically I used to worry that if we talked too much before the date, there'd be nothing to talk about during the date. (How naive I was!). Then on the day of the date I'd be like "so it's today right?" and they'll be like "oops I forgot" and then ghost me when I suggested another day. I understand now that the reason they'd ghost me then is because they probably didn't know enough about me to feel safe, since we stopped chatting.
Likewise, panic texting steals the ball from the other person and makes it even more difficult for the conversation to continue. Perhaps they just briefly stopped responding because something took their attention in real life. When I panic texted, that was forcing them to now additionally respond to behavior of mine that was decidedly neurotic.
And getting a pro cuddler session should be easy mode compared to dating. Point being, when a pro cuddler ghosts you, I expect they probably have a very good reason!
@SammyG_ FYI, OP's account has been deleted.
@mikelamps that was really well thought out. My only addition would be that ghosting so to speak can also not be a persons fault just a fact of life. @PeopleLikeUs may have put it a more eloquent way (and if that was actually AI... I need to up my writing game lol)
@MikeLamps I agree with much of what you've said except for point #4. If you're reaching out to an enthusiast or looking to date (on another site), then continuing the conversation after setting a date totally makes sense.
I won't speak for all pros, but I actually prefer having the small talk in person. When messaging and trying to set up a session here, the main things I want to know are if they've read my profile, agree to the site rules, and will respect my boundaries. Then we can discuss logistics to set a date and time. I'll usually reach out the day before to confirm we're still on if they haven't yet, but otherwise I'd rather save most of the getting to know each other for the session.
Too much idle chit chat outside of a session can be unprofessional and give off the wrong impression, not to mention I usually just don't have the time for it. If I start receiving too many irrelevant messages, I may either ignore them or actually cancel for fear that they will become clingy (which has happened too many times).
@bekah_cuddles that is a good point. Actually, you are right, looking through my messages with pro cuddlers, I did not try to initiate small talk with them. They set the flow of the conversation after that (either by posting an FAQ or asking questions like, have I cuddled before).
Actually, I was caught off guard when the first two SMS messages I got from one cuddler was "How are you doing?" and "Ooh, what are you eating?", because my gut reaction was that this kind of chatter seemed a little unprofessional. I went along with it because I figured it's part of how she tests the water to filter out the creeps and ne'er-do-wells. 🤷♂️😅
So yeah, point 4 probably does not help for talking to pro cuddlers. Or at least, not small talk.
(there are still some less unprofessional ways to break an extended silence if you feel the need. "Anything you like to drink? I'm going grocery shopping later today", or maybe ask a question related to cuddling, especially if you're new to it)
Does no one feel the random chit-chat is a good business strategy for client retention? I have had quite a few cuddlers that I keep in touch with on a friendly basis regardless of whether or not we have an imminent session upcoming. Other than genuinely being friends, I assume they want to keep in touch so that I won't let them drop off the radar. In turn, I appreciate the thought and it makes me more likely to reach out again for a session. The same thing goes for my realtor. I have unintentionally wasted this guy's time for years since I didn't end up buying a house from him but he still sends out messages from time to time just to keep me on the radar for the future. I feel this is typical salesmanship is it not?
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@jplemmon Oh absolutely! Chit chat after meeting is quite different from before meeting. I do think a successful cuddler should feel like a friend once you've met for the first time.
I do also like to share stories from time to time when things happen in my life that are related to things we have talked about during a cuddle.
That said, my messages outside of setting up new appointments are pretty rare. I save most of the stuff I want to talk about for in person, because it's just more fun that way. 😄
@jplemmon Your realtor has their eye on a commission. That's different. All talk with a cuddle pro is superficial until either you enter into enthusiast cuddles with that person, or you start doing other things together outside of paid cuddles. You can call it friendship all you want as long as you understand that stops and starts with the buck. I would pay extra special attention to time and money around Pros in any profession including cuddling.
@stormydaycuddle Yes. Total AI. I just simply dropped the OP unedited into ChatGPT and that's what it spit out, unedited. I hope AI changes how people communicate online.
@PeopleLikeUs definitely not denying that money is always in the equation. I guess I just feel from a sales point of view you don’t always land a deal right away or sometimes at all but keeping someone engaged is often the cost of doing business. You never know when you might get referrals or future business from that person.
@jplemmon I get what you are saying. And you are right. And some pros view it as a good business practice and some pros don’t. I think chitchatting requires the ability to read the room and some pros are good at it and some aren’t. Likewise some have the time and sone don’t. But yes, from the business end of things keeping in touch doesn’t hurt. But every pro has the right to run their business as they see fit and in proportion to the amount of time and resources they have.
However, as a client, I was thinking the other day how many reach out to me after a cursory viewing of their profile or before me asking for a session. That is fine but the messaging effort put in on the front end far outweighs the follow-ups after a session. I think I am going to make a concerted effort to patronize those that say hi after a session more often because I do kind of feel like the ones that go silent after a session are taking me for granted. Why do I say that? Because I saw someone in a city the past few months who reached out to me and we had a great session. She left me karma and I got a text out of the blue from two years earlier asking why I saw her when she was available. The one that texted me was a great session as well but she only pops up because she saw I had a session? That made me feel invisible and treated like an ATM that was out of order.
If I left a cuddle feeling like it was entirely transactional, I probably wouldn't return to that cuddler. Great cuddlers help me feel engaged by making me feel that they personally enjoyed their time with me and that I am one of their better customers. If somebody can convince me of that, they've more than earned my patronage! 😂
I was in a bit of a commenting timeout because of a payment issue (gee thanks, bank!), but I wanted to comment on how my "white knight" got taken way, way out of context like a game of telephone.
When I originally brought up the term here, it was very specifically towards people who feel the need to come to the aid of people they seem "in need" solely off of a quick visual assessment, not those who help everyone. I'm not quite certain why the people who claim to help everyone felt attacked by my comment - if you're not one of the people making snap judgements of people and continuing to infantilize visibly disabled people or women, then you have nothing to worry about.
Most likely it was mix up over my use of collective "you", when I should have used "one" (as in "one ought to" instead of "you (pl.) ought to") - @JohnR1972 I did not mean to directly accuse you of being a white knight, but more to pose a philosophical idea to consideration since you did not mention holding the door for everyone in your example, but I likewise did not assume you did it exclusively for the people you mentioned.
My call out was only to highlight the fact that many DO still assume that only people who are visibly disabled or women need help, or that those people must want and be grateful for unsolicited assistance.
White knighting is exactly what its imagery calls to mind - the feudal white/good knight swooping in to save the damsel in distress. They often expect praise for their actions and cannot understand why people might get upset about having their agency and autonomy taken away or impeded. The white knight assumes that the person they are helping needs saving even though they have not been asked for assistance, and likewise assumes that they know best how to solve the issue at hand. It tends to go hand-in-hand with narcissistic behaviors and is rather rampant in our society - from white people assuming they know racism better than BIPOCs, to men thinking they know better than women about STEM, to parents assuming they know their teenage kids better than they know themselves. Almost everyone is guilty of it at some point.
I would say with a very healthy sample size over the years on this site, 9 out of 10 pros do a fantastic job and it does not feel transactional at all. A lot of the people who won’t do pros seem to have issues mentally or they have an inability to compartmentalize money and self-care. They can get a pedicure and a hair cut and feel great about it and tip their barber, but the minute a pro and cuddling are mentioned in the same breath they assume a position of moral superiority or disdain. I feel fortunate because I can afford the service, I focus on whether it makes me happy, relaxed or calm, and it doesn’t really feel like a business transaction to me. But I will admit—I can compartmentalize like a mf’er.
At any rate, the 1 out of 10 that do make it feel like a transaction usually do the following—intentionally or unintentionally:
They put little reciprocity into the session. In other words, if I ask them to suggest a position, or a topic, or even a preference they reply “Whatever you want.” NO! What I want is genuine input from you as well. Whatever you want does make it feel like you are only there for the money and you employ a one size fits all approach to customer service.
They fall asleep quickly. This is the ultimate “I don’t give a f”
They offer services like a back rub or ASMR and then quote prices to you…during the session. It almost feels like if I say no they will get their boss and turn that no into a yes.
They find out you travel and then offer to travel with you on your dime. This has only happened twice and I laughed in their face when they said it. Chances are, where I am traveling to offers a better cuddler than you who won’t ask that question.
They smell like cigarette smoke or they are really intoxicated. Lack of respect for me. Hey I love a little 420, but I ask and inform.
Bad hygiene
These 6 things aren’t really transactional but are things that remind me that I am paying for something so they make it feel transactional. When the session is great, the money is inconsequential.
I’m going to disagree so strongly with a comment I can’t even right now… my original comment stands. I think the point was made the 1st time. And it wasn’t cool then either… I really feel when reiterated it doesn’t add anything but assuming the reader of the first comment was stupid… which they weren’t. I 100% agree with him. And assumptions were made so… take it back but don’t gaslight.
It’s either a call out or a diatribe at a topic at someone’s expense. Pick one.
Personally my point is that if I have to stop and think of the social impact of holding a door for someone then that’s just ridiculous. That’s how I understood the post.
@jplemmon , spot on
I think I should make it clear @JohnR1972 is not who my comment is aimed at. It’s the novel of hostility written and rewritten based on a single sentence that wasn’t inclusive enough… apparently …I got a philosophical question since it seems the term “white knighting” IS so offensive on so many levels we can probably find better words. Yet again everyone is getting thesauruses for Christmas.
@BoomerSpooner was accused of white knighting for me defending me against a troll. Since then it’s been a sore spot.
@stormydaycuddle my issue isn't with how John responded - he understandably thought I was specifically accusing him, most likely for the reason I mentioned. The reason I brought it up and clarified is because from there it spiraled into commentary on "white knighting" in general and defense of people who get accused of that.
I'm struggling to understand what part of my original comment or this one makes you believe I think anyone is stupid or that I am trying to gaslight anyone?
Changed my mind… here it is the part where someone is attacked. Here’s the section….
“one thing to consider....true courtesy ought be offered to everyone equally, not just those **you deem in need of **aid based off of snap visual judgements. Often the people who need that kindness the most show it the least, and people who fit the stereotypes get tired of people trying to white knight for them. I encourage people to truly think about treating people equitably and not making assumptions based off of our biases. People in wheelchairs do not always need assistance. People who smile the brightest often are hiding the worst pain. Anyone could do with a bit of kindness to brighten their day from a stranger even if they don't show it.“
It wasn’t philosophical… it was directed at him with the language pretty darn clear but it happened… so that would be what I’m taking issue with. Tried to put the exact sentence in bold. Not working on my end.
@stormydaycuddle I was responding to his hypothetical examples he posed, and yes - I poorly chose to use the philosophical/plural "you" which can be read as accusatory without vocal tone, when I ought to have used the more neutral "one". If you read back on other posts, I tend to use the philosophical "you" regularly because I am used to discussing more personally, but I should know better by now that it doesn't always read well over text.
I apologize that this became such a trigger. It truly was not intended as an accusation towards him.
Okay. I’m good. I can’t stand that term.sorry if I was too aggressive.
And your use of second person narrative is fine as long as someone’s name doesn’t come a few words before. I get it though and I’m sorry. 🤗
@jplemmon Re messaging etc as a means of client retention, my understanding is that OP was implying that he expected the chit chat part regardless of whether he planned to book and even seemed to acknowledge that he was essentially being called a time waster or they stopped messaging back because he didn't plan to book a session. In that case, I can understand where the pros are coming from . And I know there are plenty pros happy to exchange messages and make friends on here without the anticipation of a booking. That being said , I certainly don't fault the ones who do not.
@pmvines I do agree with that. I guess I wasn't specifically referring to the OP. I do get the feeling that some believe non-business related chat is a waste based on some comments. I guess I'm addressing that more than anything.
Often times the people I lose my hospitality and courtesy with are men that are just on my profile to look at my pictures. A few people have told me that I am “hard to have a session with” because I have security measures in place to protect myself, my property, and my clients. I’ve had several people insult the way I run my business or the questions I ask in order to see if we connect at all enough to get to a screening call. When I have creepy dudes sending me rude messages because I’m uncomfortable with their repeated compliments on my physical appearance, I stop being quite so nice. I keep things on a professional level, but I do put my foot down and announce my boundaries. Some people take this as an unkindness. I think there is a large volume of ghosting that happens around the idea of cuddling and cuddle therapy. You’re not alone.
@JustPlaneCuddle - Sounds like a red flag and I wouldn't book them. Guys are who actually respectful will care about your safety. As long as it isn't anything that will put me at risk, they can get whatever they want. No they aren't getting my SS #. Lol.
Also, complimenting on physical appearance usually doesn't get guys very far. It's old. Find something else to talk about.