I agree with @CharlesInWI Where we are in 2023 is dystopian enough.
(Removed off topic comment.)
@CharlesInWI @TxTom I can agree 2023 is indeed a dystopian.. But the question remains.....is it your favorite one?
@Jova114 I guess I'd go with Animal Farm. At least that dystopian future still has cute animals.
@TxTom Animals > people 100% of the time
Why isn’t anybody talking about POTA?
@TxTom its pretty. Animal farm is a cross over between science fiction and fable. Not dystopian.
@Joe82_ because it’s the wrong genre. Science fiction and dystopian are different.
Genre is incredibly important in literature. It’s my job to teach it. Science fiction/alternate realities aren’t the same as dystopian.
The easiest way to picture the genre and get it right is asking, “did the apocalypse happen?” “Was the past our world?” “Is there a totalitarian regime in place?” “How many people are still alive?” “Did we do this to ourselves?”
Questions to define what it is not: “did something scientific go wrong to lead to a change?” “Are there new species or technology that are steps sideways from magic?” “how did this technology come to be?” “Is space involved?” “Is this science gone wrong?” “Did the human race envision it as a positive change and it failed?”
@stormydaycuddle What happens if the apocalypse was initiated not from a political or social matter but a scientific/technological cause?
Also, isn't dystopian society just the antithesis of a utopian society (ideal, positive, etc.)?
And Sir Wikipedia spittin bars:
"Despite certain overlaps, dystopian fiction is distinct from post-apocalyptic fiction, and an undesirable society is not necessarily dystopian. Dystopian societies appear in many fictional works and artistic representations, particularly in stories set in the future. Famous examples include George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four (1949), Aldous Huxley's Brave New World (1932), and Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 (1953). Dystopian societies appear in many sub-genres of fiction and are often used to draw attention to society, environment, politics, economics, religion, psychology, ethics, science, or technology."
@stormydaycuddle I agree that Animal Farm is a fable, or allegory, but it is also dystopian because the pigs promised a humanless utopia, but instead created a totalitarian society far worse for the animals than life was under the farmer.
I've always viewed Animal Farm as a parallel to 1984.
EDIT: What makes Animal Farm, in part, science fiction?
@cylee1180 sub genre is another matter. Usually, the world is undone by humans. An out of control virus etc could be the cause of the change to the world but not society as a whole. Society is what makes the utopia or dystopia in the genre.
Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451- is actually an example of that.
In the case where it is chance and societal failing isn't the cause its more likely post-apocalyptic science fiction.
The Dictionary:
Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages dys·to·pi·a /disˈtōpēə/ noun noun: dystopia; plural noun: dystopias
an imagined state or society in which there is great suffering or injustice, typically one that is totalitarian or post-apocalyptic.
@txtom the pigs.
@Cheesecak3 @cylee1180 Definitely have to include zombie movies / TV. I was a big fan of The Walking Dead (up until the the long COVID break - I never got back into it after they came back. I also loved the first 2 seasons of Fear the Walking Dead (a prequel to the Walking Dead that showed how the old pre-zombie world ended and the new world began).
But my favorite was probably the Brad Pitt movie World War Z.
I'm out for the day (fingers crossed) I don't want to start an argument on @JohnR1972 's thread. Its a good one. Hugs.
@stormydaycuddle - I knew an apocalypse was a common feature of dystopian futures (I.e. Mad Max) but I did not think it was a requirement. So you would not include 1984 as a dystopian future? The book mentions continual wars but that did not seem anywhere near an apocalypse. I think the same is true of A Clockwork Orange - a VERY dark and disturbing future but no apocalypse between now and then.
@ everyone - for anyone interested in a good non-fiction read about historic dystopias, I enjoyed Dr. Jared Diamond’s book “Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed”. Dr. Diamond is also the author of “Guns, Germs and Steel”. Dr. Diamond is a professor of Geography at UCLA. I don’t agree with everything he says but his books are very thought provoking.
In “Collapse” he examines several ancient civilizations that are no longer among us (for example the people who carved the heads on Easter Island) and examines archaeological evidence to determine what is the most likely explanation for their demise.
@JohnR1972 you're right. I'd say in that case it tends to be an indicator. More like... how did we get here? rather than an apocalypse.
@TxTom and it has underpinnings. So I'll back off that one. Still formally classified as science fiction but I'll give that argument up.
@stormydaycuddle just refreshed my screen after my last post and saw your updated comment about definitions of dystopia. No worries about an argument - I am learning from everyone on the topic.
General comment for everyone - the second part of my question was “why” is that your favorite dystopian future. Or put another way, why would you consider a post apocalyptic zombie land better or worse than a post apocalyptic roving gangs future like Mad Max or a totalitarian future like 1984?
@stormydaycuddle Good points. Cheers! No need to argue. But I'm always up for healthy debate - unless misogyny or inequality is at stake then I go Luda (move out the way!).
@JohnR1972 Love zombie movies and yet to watch the walking dead. love world war z, 28 days, and other well written zombie flicks. I think we are all dead on Netflix is too scary for me or Asian horror in general (esp Japanese and Thai horror). I can only handle medium horror. world war z is it.
Love the discussion of dystopian stories guys!
also, I am legend is zombie and dystopian, esp since In the OG story the last human is actually the antagonist to the zombies and they fear him.
“If you had to pick a dystopia to live in, which one would you pick and why?”
I’d pick Huxley’s Brave New World.
There’s no war, famine, or disease. The masses are controlled by pleasure, as opposed to pain. And the rampant promiscuity, consumerism, and recreational drug use is a largely continental affair that somehow hasn’t destroyed our entire planet.
Actually, that sounds a lot better than my lame reason of cute animals.
@JohnR1972 can I change my answer?
@MonkeyNeedsAHug Brave New World is an excellent choice. Going to the “Feelies” predicted virtual reality way back in 1931.
Surprised no one mentioned Metropolis which is considered the first dystopian movie:
BLACK MIRROR
👆🏽
Monkey loves you.
@BoomerSpooner
I had forgotten that BNW predated Orwell’s 1984 by more than a decade!
Thanks for the reminder.
@stormydaycuddle The answers to all your questions in the first paragraph regarding POTA are Yes. I think if you draw a Venn diagram of dystopian future and POTA and science fiction you will only have one circle. What about The Chrysalids? Dystopian or SF? Why not both?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chrysalids
@JohnR1972 Have you read the Smithsonian article where maybe Dr. Diamond got the Greenland Viking story wrong? An interesting read, I also enjoyed his book GG&S.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-greenland-vikings-vanished-180962119/
Downtown LA
Because of inflation, it's now A Clockwork Grapefruit.
@JoyfulHeart 😂😂😂
@WestsideMarc Good show. got pretty depressing after a few seasons to me. The inevitable downfall always got me.