@IronLemon Don't feel sorry for me when you either fail to grasp the premise of my comparison or intentionally are deflecting it into something irrelevant to the point I was making. The moral superiority you are taking in response to my comments is a perfect example of trying to social engineer the viewpoints of this forum against the points I have made.
Regarding your obviously leading questions, the answer is simple... We all have our personal preferences. How we get to those preferences will be unique from individual to individual. If you respect other's preferences instead of questioning them as though there is a problem with those preferences, we will all get along better.
@btc13 I asked
For those who believe ... that who you choose to cuddle with depends on instinct, that you'll only cuddle with people you're sexually attracted to, I have some questions.
Your response to this question is
We all have our personal preferences.
To me, this makes even less sense than you believing that people who are trying to understand something are actually criticizing your preferences. Can you explain how you arrived at the conclusion that instinct is a personal preference? I am genuinely confused by your responses.
Wow! This thread is still going on. Folks making such broad generalizations based on anecdotal "evidence." Others upset that some won't bend to their way of thinking and convictions (yet in other context would demand that we "live and let live"). For those of you who continue to defend yourselves I ask , "Why?" Who cares what others think about you and your beliefs? Cuddle with a same-sex partner or don't.
Move along. Nothing to see here.
Newsflash: some people just like to argue. It gives them a false sense of superiority.
Why the gender imbalance? If this is a cuddle website, why are men specifically looking for women?
The assumption of the OP's question is correct. And the answer is, most men are more instinctively affectionate towards women. And this is by Nature's evolutionary design.
@CuddleDuncan said,
The VAST majority - I mean well over 99.9% - of intimate affection does not lead to anything.
I disagree. But what I said was, "close intimate affection generally leads to...". I didn't say, "it always leads to..."
Nevertheless, my original comment comes from a very macro perspective. The purpose of life--in this largely lifeless universe--is to beget more life. If humans didn't procreate, we wouldn't need affection. The two are closely related.
To quote myself from Aug. 2022:
...we live in a society that no longer wants to recognize objective truth. Millions of years of evolution, human physiology, natural selection, the hard-wired instinctive motivations of men and women, et al, has all been swept away--we are told to believe--by the musings of a social/political fad, that in the bigger scheme of things, will itself probably be very short lived.
@jimmylee Some threads go on and on for many pages. If the conversation is interesting, regardless of whether there is general agreement or not, I enjoy reading it.
@TxTom I understand. I breeze through the forums from time to time. I typically find very little that personally holds my interest. Its either saturated with half-baked, indefensible positions (not all, but plenty), or it is a return to a schoolyard where the "cool kids" are big fish in a small pond.
Just my experience after bring on CC for 8 years (despite what my profile says).
More power to you. Whatever floats your boat.
...we live in a society that no longer wants to recognize objective truth.
Hmmm. In your argument you say the urge to procreate is why men prefer women basing this on biology and is the very foundation that your assertion for objective truth is built upon.
Yet just before that you said
If humans didn't procreate, we wouldn't need affection.
Modern science has shown that is entirely untrue. Ancient armies and cultures encouraged bisexuality and the need to adapt. Having same sex relations was not seen as other or bad or any moral judgement we see in today’s culture.. Alexander the Great liked both sexes but was said to prefer men. This is very much a result of cultural freedom to exhibit such behavior.
So in the realm of platonic love the “objective truth” spoken of in biological terms has become more of a moral high ground “bubble” to justify an all-or-nothing approach to intimacy by conflating the biological urge with human affection. This is a fallacy. Objective truth would be true regardless of context and it isn’t. But the idea has been given currency despite the existence of many platonic relationships where sexuality does not enter the picture—familial, friendships, and so on. Objective truth is a dangerous concept because in reality, it is used in platonic situations to justify rape, assault and a disregard for boundaries because we are wired that way and therefore it is natural.
A good example of why objective truth is limited is the fact that Catholic dogma for centuries is that sex is for purely for procreation. If this were true you wouldn’t need a “law” to enforce it. Likewise the church denounces homosexuality even as they have several in their ranks whose actions defy that law. Objective truth as presented biologically is only true if the right ingredients are in place and if one wants to extend this to all male-female then anyone who doesn’t conform to that truth is condemned for being different. Hence the all-or-nothing way of thinking.
There is a kernel of truth in every assertion and if a woman is ovulating and the egg is fertilized by male sperm then the objective truth holds true. But sexual urge is not predicated solely on that, otherwise homosexual relationships would not increase in contexts such as prison, war or lower stress contexts such as same sex schools. And a lack of affection is debilitating as seen in scenarios such as Romanian orphanages where children received no affection—this had nothing to do with an “objective truth” of man lacking a woman women to procreate with. This had to do with a pure lack of human contact regardless of sex, age, looks, color or sexuality. We need affection in a form that shows us we exist and are connected to others in the human race. Affection is contextual and comes in a multitude of forms and is not some monolithic universal objective truth that is presented as a form of power to dismiss or condemn others that do not conform to said objective truth. There are truths, then there are truths that are used to define areas where that truth is not always true.
In the grand scheme of things, even preferences can shift given the context and the reasons are various. Some base their preferences on biology, while others select on personality, and others still based on other factors.
It's worth mentioning in this discussion about cuddling preferences and their relationship, or lack there of, to sexual attraction that parents cuddle their children and pet owners cuddle their pets all the time. Sex is completely out of the question in these scenarios, but on a level plane, the exact same cuddle conditions are happening as they do anywhere else. Animals enjoy and require comforting touch for full embodied health. If you ask me, that is our true instinctual drive towards cuddling, to receive this comforting touch. And this instinctual drive is developed at a pre-sexual stage. Really it begins the moment we are born. Ideally our first cuddle come a few seconds after our first breath.
@cas123 What you said I was saying in my argument prior.
Waking up to another collection of essays about another irrelevant non-issue. bottom line is people bend over backwards to normalize and glorify exceptions while questioning anyone who doesn't.
And all I'm asking is why? why
If a thread doesn't interest you, please entertain the possibility that it interests others. Non-participation in any thread is an option that is available to everyone. -JoyfulHeart
...is Starbucks not open already?
And again, this conversation reminds me of a song by the greatest band this planet has ever seen. posting it as a spoiler since almost nothing they do is "appropriate" so watch at your own risk
Agreed. Affection doesn't only exist because of the need to procreate. The need to stick together in a group to survive in a hostile environment is another. This is, in part, why being rejected from a group is so emotionally painful. It's a death sentence when you are young to be excluded from the group. And it's the death of your species of you don't have strong instincts to protect and care for members of your group. The need for affection ensures our survival as individuals and as a species.
And people are highly adaptable.
This…
On this site, it's well-established that most men are paying for cuddling, so they are actually consumers/clients. I'm not sure why it matters to anyone who someone else prefers… Personal preference. I'm limiting only myself, which is ok… I choose who's sharing my personal space.
100% agree with @starrynitecuds on this. I also find it interesting how someone describes other people’s preferences as “having overcome” other people’s preferences. No judgment in those type of statements 🙄
** Edited for clarity **
people bend over backwards to normalize and glorify exceptions
And that is how people in the minority become marginalized. Criticizing and dismissing what is different and making it into a joke about your bougie coffee choices. We should celebrate what is unusual and different as much as we do the majority and the mundane.
There's so much emotional violence around. Even on a cuddle site.
I think it should be celebrated when anyone can love anyone else in any kind of way that they both consent to. I hate (which I think is a form of emotional violence in and of itself) when people are shamed, criticized, or negatively reinforced regarding who they are able to love, who they are able to let in, and how they are able to love.
It's like those videos you see around. Of the abandoned, abused dog or cat who is afraid of the people who are trying to help it. And after time, and kindness, the little guy or gal comes around and shares and accepts love. Happy ending.
The dog or cat doesn't open up if people are criticizing and shaming her or him. And if they were abused by a man or woman, maybe they won't let another man or woman in right away.
And it's the same with us. And I'm talking to myself here as much as I'm talking to anyone else. I have some lessons to learn. I haven't had as much loving touch in my life as I've needed, which is why I'm here. Interacting with you all helps me see where I've gotten things wrong. Where I've blocked access to that which I've craved so much.
@billiam 👍👍 You nailed it beautifully.
@billiam This is a very apt summation, and adds additional perspective to what almost everyone here is saying. It's well worth thinking about.
Meanwhile, the Usual Crew are here being dismissive of people's experiences and holding fast to their baseless and unsupported beliefs (except for one who is being dismissive because he thinks the forums should cater only to his own interests). And it seems like some try to disrupt this honest and productive discussion by deliberately misunderstanding what's being said so they can be offended by it.
I'm happy about all the people here who are willing to discuss this honestly and with an open mind. And sorry for the OP for having to endure the negativity that some people "instinctively" bring.
I am enjoying the thread . I can't say that I entirely agree with most of the comments because I have my y own thoughts and opinions about why I feel the way that I do and why my level of comfort is what it is, but that's ok because I'm not on here to try to have my mind changed. I think a reason that many threads go sideways is because we have a hard time considering points of view of others without feeling like it's a challenge to our own. And on the flip side we have a hard time expressing our views without doing it in a way where we feel compelled to change the views of others. Topics like this catch more heat than they deserve because we can't seem to let our egos be quiet and simply listen and allow the other person to feel how they feel without personalizing it. We should be able to express preferences regardless of why and for whom without it being judged.
Ive cuddled men before, all you have to do is see my karma to know that. However it's not a preference for reasons already stated. I can read why someone isn't comfortable doing that and not feel like I have to defend myself for being comfortable with it in certain circumstances with the right men. And I feel as though I can do a pretty good job at expressing why I'm ok with it without making someone who doesn't feel comfortable with it feel as though there is something wrong with them for not being ok with it. If someone wants to get all snotty and demeaning and "no homo" then that's different. But I'm not going to try to make someone feel less enlightened for having a different level of comfort than me. That does nothing.
It's funny cis straight men is quickly becoming one of the most attacked "group" in the US today lol.
First off I don't care what anyone identifies as, who they choose to cuddle with, and or who they sleep with as long as it's between two consenting adults.
I understand what the OP was asking and I feel that's been answered by alot of people with varying responses that for the most part has been spoken without hate.
I do have problems when people have judged others for the choices they have when choosing who to cuddle or open themselves up too. Just because a man chooses to cuddle women doesn't mean he needs to change. What works for one doesn't mean it has to work for everyone.
I also find it funny when a pro speaks out saying they prefer to not cuddle with a group that's most likely the largest part of their income seeing most of the paying members here are cis straight adult males.
Long story short. Others cuddle preferences shouldn't matter to anyone else. If someone would prefer to not cuddle me for any reason I would not even try to change their mind.
Side note to the trans/non binary i believe also for the individual to choose.
Going back to the beginning of the thread I do agree with @starrynitecuds on who shares one’s personal space. But at the same time, the OP was shocked to find a lack of acceptance on this site and was trying to understand why that is. In a way he is right and answered his own question. A site like this should attract people who are far more open-minded to modes of human contact different than what conventional society deems normal. Acceptance should be the norm, but it isn’t in a lot of cases. And it is sad to see a concept like a site dedicated to cuddling be permeated by people who violently reject certain types of people at every turn.
No one is saying you must cuddle them (whatever group being discussed is), but my goodness, accept them on equal terms as a human being with all the respect that is afforded a human.
My sons partner is transgender, f2m. A work colleague asked out of curiosity because this is his second long term relationship with a transgender person if my son is primarily attracted to transgender people. I said no my son is attracted to the person, not the genitalia, his heart just happens to connect with the heart that is most compatible. In terms of the cuddle community and platonic touch, there are people who are like my son who do not see gender, and there are people who are not. There is room for all of us providing we are respectful and not hateful towards others.
@YusukeU A little perspective here. Pros can choose who they want to cuddle. And most pros do not rely on cuddling as their sole income. And the pro in question has been raped before and nothing was done, so her choice was not based on pure hatred. She has posted her story on here before. I refuse to judge her for that because I do not know how I would react after such a traumatic incident followed by indifference. I only know it’s horrible.
But I'm not going to try to make someone feel less enlightened for having a different level of comfort than me. That does nothing.
@TheFunCartel and that is what people here do and that is what I was referring to (but @pmvines is just much nicer than me what can I do, my weakness). I haven't seen anyone here mocking or making fun of those with less popular preferences. but they are the ones who judge everyone else. I'm not even upset about it. I was just making an early morning observation and if I wasn't up at 3am I doubt I would have made that comment at all.
I now also wonder how many of those who bothered to play the song I posted would misunderstand it to be Homophobic, rather than what it actually is, which is the exact opposite.
Now I would like to wish a happy weekend to all: To the enlightened ones and also all the miserable pathetic men out there, like yours truly, who still haven't found a way to break from the social conditioning and programming that led them to only like the opposite gender. (and since someone brought up cats and dogs, who programs and socially conditions them to like the opposite gender since they seem to also follow what the norm is for people?)
Some are tired of price conversation, some are tired of cleavage picture conversations, and some are also tired of mem on men conversation. and some are tired of all of the above.
So let's stop bringing up controversial issues and together Make Cuddle Comfort Great Again!
@TheFunCartel no one said anyone has to cuddle anyone or explain their reasons for it. Being SA myself by both genders in my youth I hear what you're saying its not something you ever forget. All I'm saying if I'm seeing a pro basically saying I'm not one they would prefer to cuddle with that's not someone I would like to cuddle with anyone.
But being a pro requires the following
You can be affectionate to anyone. You are accepting of all races, ages, genders, and sexual orientations.
So let's stop bringing up controversial issues
@Sooson Yeah but that’s not your call. What is your call is whether you have the maturity to ignore controversial threads that annoy you or not. I rarely start threads, but I choose the ones I want to respond to. If I respond to them I hope not to diminish the thread. Have I ever diminished a thread? Most definitely, but I try and grow from my bad experiences. None of us are perfect or even close, but we can all strive to improve.
@YusukeU I would say move on to the next cuddler then because you are not likely going to convince her to change her preference. And a pro is not required to cuddle everyone who wants to cuddle them if they feel it might endanger them.
I understand your point that it will reduce the number of people who will want to cuddle her, but I think that is exactly her point as well.
It seems to me that this thread has run its course. Everyone who wants to share their experiences has. All that's left is people being dismissive of those experiences, and people going out of their way to be offended by people's experiences. Congratulations, guys, you've successfully prevented honest discussion between people willing to talk about their experiences and learn from the experiences of others.
@TheFunCartel never said I wanted anyone to change their mind. My point was I wouldn't want anyone to change their mind to interact with me in anyway.
@IronLemon I know what you are referring to, and bad faith arguments do unfortunately make it a frustrating experience. But I think there are some that can maturely discuss things.
never said I wanted anyone to change their mind.
I didn’t say you did, but you thought it was funny that someone wouldn’t cuddle a certain group of people. I was just trying to give you the context of her story and why it isn’t that funny. No attack on you is intended.