@TheFunCartel
It was already pointed out, If she said “Based on my experiences or , I believe that some…” That is not what she said and you keep purposely ignoring that . The only thing I saw was Most men don’t like to interact with non attractive women. As a male I find that generalization ridiculous and laughable.
As for avoiding East Oakland , Are you victim blaming? You’re blaming me for getting robbed in the city I live in because I’m not avoiding certain areas I am free to go? The Airport is in East Oakland, The Raiders , A’s and Warriors used to play in East Oakland and that was when it happened.
Pointing out grammatical errors is petty trolling based on the fact I touched a nerve.
As for avoiding East Oakland , Are you victim blaming?
Not at all. But you missed the point. I will leave it at that.
Then can you explain your point and tell me how I should have avoided Going to sporting events where I live?
@Kense If you feel like you are not seeing a serious discussion of your points, it's because the same points have been raised and discussed here many, many times before. Nothing against you, but there is not that much new to say that hasn't already been said elsewhere on the forums.
You’re right I don’t post much here for obvious reasons. Carry on I’m out.
It’s a reflection of how you present yourself, It was my intention and it worked. ☺️
Geez this got toxic… so much for all the respectful conversations lol Re-reading I guess it had already started though, generalizations of people never lead to good conversations.
Btw the op and others may not know, this topic does get used to try to shame men or show how men are generally bad (had it happen multiple times) It also is an honest curiosity for many others and that’s how I’ve been reading the op and most comments (though a few I’m not sure about)
To put it in perspective it’s the same as starting a discussion asking why (some or most) lesbian women don’t want to cuddle men if it’s not meant to be sexual, then people making generalizations about how most lesbians are… on a post all about lesbians that was created by a straight man… Kind of tactless and offensive right? (Yes I know there are lesbians that cuddle men, some are my friends 😊)
Again, I read it as an honest question. I also passed over the generalizations as not being worth my time but it’s a legit reason for the people who are upset. Keep in mind that not all circles are like the ones you are in.
Anyway there are also some good points by a lot of you all and now there’s some actual references in here to answer the original question if anyone wants them and can find them in the comments lol
And the social conditioning in those references, even if overall negative, is still a valid reason for men to have the preferences that they do. Just maybe something to work to try and heal without shaming anyone.
Carry on I’m out.
@Kense YAY!🥳🥳🥳
@me2
To put it in perspective it’s the same as starting a discussion asking why (some or most) lesbian women don’t want to cuddle men if it’s not meant to be sexual, then people making generalizations about how most lesbians are… on a post all about lesbians that was created by a straight man… Kind of tactless and offensive right?
WELL SAID! To me, that comment nails the essence of this whole thread. It seems some people have to explain / defend their preferences while at the same time it would be inappropriate and offensive to question the preferences of other people.
I personally don’t care what anyone else’s preferences are. That is their business, not mine. What I take exception to are statements about the need for men to “overcome” their current preferences because someone else views those preferences as being the product of outdated “social programming”.
Using “overcome” in this context is a social judgment. “Change” is neutral, “overcome” implies advancement / victory / improvement as in there was something wrong with the previous preferences but they have been replaced with better preferences.
@JohnR1972 thank you. I think part of the problem is that with these issues people don’t understand that while understanding sociological concepts and trends is helpful, they don’t play out on individual levels the same ways. Individual experience is so much more varied and nuanced. Also, sociological trends play out in generations not lifetimes and social conditioning is really strong.
I’m actually one of those people that believes men have been conditioned away from being as affectionate with each other. I provided some solid evidence for this in a previous comment but it quickly got overshadowed by the drama.
The thing is it still isn’t cause to shame men for their preferences. Conditioning is strong. It’d be like a man telling women they shouldn’t wear make up or high heels because it symbolizes antiquated commodification of their sexuality and reproduction. Regardless of whether it’s true or not, that man would have no idea what it’s like growing up with the woman’s social conditioning and the topic is too complicated for such simple directives anyway.
The true step in this regard is not shaming men that are comfortable cuddling or being affectionate with other men (which you already seem to agree with 😊) having grace with each other, and maybe just some general contemplation.
@Katota I appreciate everything you have said as well.
@me2 100% agree. If a man wants to cuddle with another man, that is entirely their business and I do not disparage their decisions or ask them to “justify” that decision. It is not something I am interested in but I could say the same thing about rap music, RomComs, and Pokémon 😂
I’ve been blessed with the opportunity to travel to 15 countries across 5 continents over my career. I’ve seen cultures very different than the Midwest of the U.S. I have enjoyed some aspects of France, Spain, and Singapore that I really didn’t expect to enjoy (or in some cases didn’t even know about) and I feel “richer” for having had those experiences.
That said, I also saw things in each of those cultures I didn’t care for and did not want to participate in. There was a bull fighting arena next door to my hotel in Valencia and a bull fight was scheduled there during my stay but I had ZERO interest in being a spectator to that type of event.
I tend to like i think east Oakland is probably a lovely place. I've never been but some of my favorite people come from there. I'm not a sports guy so i don't know much about that. But this old guy stuck me up at the tigers station once, i was surprised because i thought he worked there acting like security. I'm was young and trusting of certain kinds of people based on how they look, but life has taught me a lot.
Are there people trying to "shame" others about their cuddle preferences here? I don't know. Maybe. I haven't noticed because I've learned over time not to worry so much about what complete strangers on the Internet think. My cuddling preference is women, and if someone here were trying to "shame" me for it ... sometimes you have to say, "I don't know this person, they don't know me, so who cares?"
I'm a heterosexual man, and from my perspective there are two reasons I'd only cuddle with women. The first is that I don't believe my aversion to cuddling with men is just social conditioning. I do think there's an evolutionary default where men see other men as potentially rivals or as potentially dangerous until proven otherwise. I'm not saying that's how it should be, but that's a strong instinct. I'm sure that men who have worked to transcend that are better for having done so, but it's a hurdle and I don't think it's something we should feel ashamed of.
The second thing is that I think that Freud was wrong to think that sexuality is fundamental. There are things more fundamental than that: knowing that we're going to die eventually, feeling that we're fundamentally alone, feeling that we are supposed to contribute to humanity in some way (if only by reproducing). Sexuality is a product of those fundamental drives, not the source. I think Carl Jung was much closer to the truth in saying that we are divided into male and female for evolutionary and biological reasons, but we feel this as a harmful separation, so we seek to complete ourselves by connecting with the half of ourselves that was taken from us.
Potentially a third factor is that wanting to cuddle with someone one is physically attracted to is sort of the path of least resistance, and is something we should work to get beyond. I can't make sense of what physical beauty means or doesn't mean, but it's a biological marketing scheme, and it works. I do think we should challenge ourselves to put that to one side and not discriminate either for or against people we find physically attractive.
@JohnR1972 Exactly, and great analogy. So much depends on what you grow up around. Learning about the differences and where various preferences come from is incredibly enriching and may even change some people’s preferences to some degree, but there will always be things that are just too far away from our original conditioning and it isn’t appropriate to expect people to change. Food preferences are an excellent example of this. I had no problem eating grilled silk worm larva, crickets, tadpoles, water bugs, and even rat in Thailand but I bet a lot of people here couldn’t handle that and I wouldn’t shame them. I could even try to say that everyone “should”be ok eating crickets because it’s the most efficient source of protein but I know that’s just too much conditioning for most people to get over in their lifetime and shaming never helps.
@WriterGF there’s been more shaming in the way of hurtful generalizing and questions that are borderline questionable. There was a lot of good respectful conversation at first and I can’t remember anything super overt. I’ve had this topic used to try to shame me with in person interactions a number of times before though. Again, I took the op as genuine curiosity. I think the point people are making is that if this type of questioning was done by a male about another gender it would be assumed to be shaming. I also brought it up to make sure people understood that the reference I provided wasn’t intended for/or cause for shaming
@JohnR1972 hey here’s the article I posted earlier so you don’t have to search for it. It’s pretty fascinating and was mind blowing for me the first time I saw it. Again crazy how difference cultures can be through space and time. I’m affectionate with my male friends but not to this level 😂
https://www.filmsforaction.org/news/bosom-buddies-a-photo-history-of-male-affection/
I would love to cuddle with women ❤️✨🫂
@MissJade we have something in common. See i was able to find common interests with a stranger on the internet, i think we should all do more of that. Didn't cost me a thing.
People keep saying that people are being shamed for their preferences here. Can anyone provide links to comments in this thread where this has happened? All I've noticed is people expressing their experiences and opinions, and other people misreading it so they can be offended.
I've asked before, and no one has been able to tell me where people are being shamed for their preferences.
@IronLemon I might have inadvertently implied feeling shamed but in no way was I suggesting that I felt shamed in this discussion. I think @SariSari has been very respectful and asked a question that I have actually thought about myself. We sort of witness our own needs and choices, and the reasons aren't necessarily easy to identify. I feel like an anthropologist studying myself sometimes.
The only reason shame entered my thoughts is because the question posed sort of rhymes with or resonates with judgy things I've heard in general throughout my life. So it's where my mind goes, not because of anything said here. Partly it's me questioning my own motives as to why I would only cuddle with women. Shame tends to show up to a party uninvited though, doesn't it lol
ME: Shame?! Nobody invited you here! SHAME: True, which is why I snuck in here early and waited for you all.
Costco basketball shorts
@JimBeam I'm glad no one here has made you feel shamed.
This thread does invite a lot of self-reflection, which is always difficult no matter how comfortable you (the generic you, of course) are with yourself. And usually if you have self-awareness, no one is better at shaming you than yourself.
My question was aimed at people who have been accusing other people of shaming them for their preferences. They're part of the reason this thread has gone on for so long.
@IronLemon Maybe re-read my comments? There seems to be confusion. Some of this was me making caveats about what that resource I posted means because I’ve experienced this topic being used to shame people in other situations (not on this site.)
I was also trying to illustrate and validate why people may have taken the questioning and generalizations as shaming. “the answer is that most men don’t respect or want to interact with things they’re not sexually attracted to.”
For my self, I believe the questioning to be in good faith and not shaming.
Btw I was kind of curious what you would think of that article as well as you seem genuinely curious. Did you see it?
@me2 As I said, there's been several people in this thread who were very explicitly offended because they somehow thought people were shaming them for their preferences.
It's an interesting article, and I'm glad you posted it. It's not anything new to me, though. It used to be acceptable, if not expected, for men to proclaim their love for each other. I know that Greek has several words for love, including brotherly love. And on a tangent, men also used to be allowed to cry. If you read the Arthurian tales, you'll see (if I'm remembering correctly) Lancelot crying because he couldn't participate in a tourney, and no one thought less of him. In the bible, Jesus wept, and no one thought less of him for that. I read an article about this several years ago, but I don't remember enough to be able to find it again.
And to further call modern masculinity into question, here's President Franklin D. Roosevelt in a dress. https://medium.com/@NewAgeNews/why-is-president-franklin-d-roosevelt-wearing-a-dress-83fba3549523 Admittedly, he's 2 1/2 in this picture, but apparently it was normal back then.
And for amusement, this is what Doctor Who did when they were told to tone down the homoeroticism.
I agree dude, it’s kinda nuts. Hopefully, we can teach the younger generation that men being platonically affectionate isn’t any to be scared or intimidated by.
@littlepeanut The younger generation seems to be learning that pretty well. It's the older generations that need to learn it.