@dennis22554 Fair enough. I guess it's good I didn't try to correct you on anything.
Then we are good...I respectfully suggest that you watch rewatch the movie carefully to see if there not some additional positive takeaways you can identify as you have already done..trust me .it will warm your heart..respectfully stevr....Dennis is my middle name99
@dennis22554 As I said before, I do not watch christmas movies. Especially when you've told me they have "traditional values" that I won't agree with.
Why did I have to repeat that to you?
Then why ask me questions about them..have a good night
@dennis22554 Are you being deliberately obtuse? Go back and re-read. My question, the entirety of my question, was what you meant by "traditional values". I asked nothing about the movie. I asked what you meant by "traditional values". It took three times, but you finally answered, but it doesn't seem you could understand my response.
I guess there is truth to what JohnR said.
@dennis22554 Christmas movies are awesome! It’s the best time of year and these movies celebrate the loving message of Christmas. If I put what the message of Christmas is people will flag it.
@supadupa Here's a nice heart-warming song.
@supadupa ...⁷⁷.I whole heartedly agree..struggled to make what should have been any easy non offensive post but am glad I did..thank you
I love all the unique messages the holidays bring .especially classic xmas movies..with exceptions...warmth just seems to be in the air during the holidays
For me the traditional values of Christmas are to think about others before yourself, take the time to give to those who you care about or who are less fortunate than you, appreciate all gifts for their intention rather than their monetary value, and to share happy times with those who are important to you in your life.
I appreciate Dennis coming here to share something that brings him joy so that others may either share their own experiences with the movie or discover the joy that Dennis wants to share. It's a shame that it had to become derailed because he used the words "traditional values" with zero ill intentions.
Thank you..don't think the post was derailed..there a number of very positive messages..that were a pleasure to read...I just try to overlook the negativiity.and ignore personal attacks..after all..its the holidays
@dennis22554 its possible to see both sides, without being upset. As a child of two veterans, and grandchild of 2 veterans - I’d love to understand more what you mean by people not respecting the country, and pledge of allegiance? My family, some of which who have died in combat, did so that other weren’t forced to pledge to anything. That they could be free. My family didn’t die killing nazis for their grandchildren to be in a facist country.
Please elaborate.
The pledge of allegiance is plain creepy. We are born here, tied to this land we had 0 say in as a clump of cells to baby, and then told we should hold undying loyalty to some authority.
You cant even really leave unless you want to be stateless or marry into another country.
You are born to work and further the coked up war machine that is the US Govenment and Corporations, wow what a great traditional value.
The “Traditional Values” of the United States are slavery and genocide.
We rename them from time to time, simply for marketing purposes, but we never really leave them behind.
Really not trying to cause contriversy so I am only going to talk from my. perspective..ill start with a disclaimer..everyone is entitled to an opinion..im not judging anybody for what their opinion is..nor I am tring to change it. In my case...I also come from a military family and served for twenty years...I lost several friends as well during time served. The pledge of alliance recited dring my elementary classes was done so freely as a sign of respect for those that served..patriotic activities came naturally when I grew up as did respect.for the country. The pledge of allegiance is also routinely recited prior to various military activities and is done so gladly..Nobody thinks America is perfect but I don't. recall. America being bad mouthed or public displays of flag burning during wii. The nation wasn't as nearly divided. Unless you were alive then and now..its hard to describe..differences..its sad when discussions resort to name calling due to differences.It's crystal clear to me that I am not on the favorites list of many but nevertheless I always try to be respectful. I can look in a mirror and smile back at what I see. I appreciate the ability to arrange cuddle sessions while on this site when the occasion arises..thats my primary focus. It's certainly not to create hatred..and I would like to note overall feedback was primarily positive.
It’s a fantastic movie and message.
Lol. I used to watch the movie before cable and it was on for the Sunday night movie. Almost like a tradition of mental preparedness for the Merican values.
To many wow 'that' just happened moments.
Unfortunately society has been programmed to bring the fake lives in hollywood, to transpose into the reality we live in.
If this country should be like any movie, if that really has to happen, let it be like......... Actually lets just be better people in a micro or macro scale and learn how to value our personhood and that of others.
Scene annnnnnnd cut.....
It’s my favorite movie by far. I’ve watched it enough times to lose count. Laugh at me if you will, call me traditional all you want. The character portrayed as George Bailey is how I’m going to strive to live my life. Caring for others, speaking up for those without a voice, standing up against injustice, making those you love a reason for your being. If those values aren’t fashionable anymore, I have no regrets in being labeled as old fashioned.
IMO, this entire forum is one massive Rorschach test. Take ANY comment posted, regardless of intent or context, and some will see logic, beauty, and sincerity while others will see “hidden” agendas, oppression, and fascism.
The whole premise of a Rorschach test is what a person sees in an ink blot is a reflection of what is inside of them. Or, stated another way, “Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks”.
@dennis22554 When you say, “What should have been an easy, non-offensive post…” implies judgment on anyone who takes issue with it. As with the phrase “traditional values” the offense lies in the embedded assumption that your values are (or once were, or should be) shared by all.
@IronLemon, “It’s a Wonderful Life” is a product of its times.
Gender norms were rigid and heterosexual coupling was the rule. Mary, the main female character, goes off to college, but returns home to pursue her “Mrs”. (That’s an old joke about women who went to college to find a husband. The movie does not make the joke, but the term “old maid” is used in earnest to indicate her best alternative to marrying George Bailey.)
Segregation was evident. The only African American character is a domestic servant in the protagonist’s childhood home. And given the fact that the Bailey patriarch is a bit of an underachiever as a businessman, the racial privilege implied by the servant’s presence suggests much for a critical eye to examine.
All this said, I think “It’s a Wonderful Life” is a great film. And, for all its faults (clear enough, with hindsight) I think you would appreciate it.
At its heart is a critique of greed, and the unchecked immorality of a capitalist elite, hoarding wealth and exploiting (and stealing from) the poor in order to do so. There’s a huge emphasis on the masses pooling assets to help each other get out from under the thumb of the banker / slumlord. And, when the Bailey savings and loan helps Giuseppe achieve the dream of home ownership, the recognition of his shared humanity points the audience toward the larger picture: either we accept that we are all in this together, or we will be miserable and alone.
More of the film’s “progressive” elements: Mary is depicted as being more worldly and in many ways more competent than George. She has tremendous grit, determination, and agency. There is also an interesting side plot concerning a woman who eschews marriage, and isn’t shunned outright. Her future is left respectfully open. And the chemistry between the eponymous “Bert and Ernie” sparks much joy as well. Who can forget their romantic harmonizing, or that kiss?
If you do end up watching it, let me know what you think. I’d be glad to hear your opinion.
🐒
@btc13 It's too bad it took him so long to answer a simple question about what he meant. It's as if he knew his "traditional values" weren't all that good and was trying to evade the question. Many people have said if you don't want something talked about, don't bring it up. That was definitely the case here. If he didn't want to have to explain what he meant by "traditional values", he shouldn't have mentioned it.
When he finally did answer, his answer was a lot more nationalist than I expected. And it seems likely he was also thinking of anti-LGBT values. Basically, 1950s values which we can do so much better than, at least those of us who don't want to return to the 1950s.
And of course after I give my opinion of his so-called values, he tells me to watch the movie again, ignoring that I said I wasn't going to watch a christmas movie. [Removed]
Flagged by a member of the community. Removed part of comment. [CharlieBear]
Traditional values in the movie are wonderful and are numerous. I don't have an intolerant dismissive attitude and rude attitude to others have expressed here ..once again..everyone is entitled to their opinions. I will never dismiss the values expressed in the movie nor will I express hatred toward this country .. if that makes me a monster so be ir...I want to thank the multitude of people sending positive private message
And will not apologize for typo errors related to a medical disability
Feel free to make fun of them all you want .I am alive and breathing and happy with life
The movie has one overwhelming message.
Be grateful. Your influence is only partially realized.
I don't know how "traditional values" automatically implies anti-LGBT or racist intent. There are many traditional values that are still values today. And simply depicting a hetero couple is also not an indication of anti-LGBT sentiment, regardless of the era it was released. I did not see any mention of anything related to anti-LGBT sentiment until IronLemon inferred that "traditional values" must signify anti-LGBT, despite the fact that neither It's a Wonderful Life nor Dennis' comment even hinted at anything related to the LGBT community. Like JohnR said, no matter what someone says here, there are people who will twist it into something negative. Someone says Happy Thanksgiving? You must be anti-Native American! Someone likes It's a Wonderful Life? You must be anti-LGBT! It's the modern form of the Salem Witch Trials.
@btc..I can not express enough gratitude for your comment ...I hate being accused for something derogatory about my core values ..especially when they know nothing about me. I account it to their leading a very bitter..miserable life. I would like say I feel sorry for them but they will never change. I can't imagine going through life so negative all the time. Thank you for your remarks once again
I grew up during the 70s in NY and. Orlando the haydays of the Lbgt life so it seemed at the time..at least it wasn't a divisive time ..ignoring war protests
@btc13 "Traditional values' is a dog whistle commonly used by anti-LGBT people. Pay attention and you'll see this. When someone repeatedly refuses to explain what "traditional values" means, it usually includes anti-LGBT sentiments. [Removed]
@dennis22554 You were around in the "heydays" of LGBT life (whatever that means)? What did you think of the Stonewall Riots? If you're calling the 70s the heydays, it sounds to me like you remember fondly when LGBT people "knew their place".
I thank you in advance for your lack of clarification on this.