Yin and Yang

SolarisSolaris
in General

I often wonder why I keep coming to these Cuddle Conflict forums... why I keep getting into arguments here when I joined the site for cuddles.

It hit me just now as I was reading another thread where the OP was accused of trolling and trying to start fights (I'll get to my epiphany in a minute). Meanwhile those accusing him of starting fights on purpose have been fighting with him for 5 pages (and counting). Others post that they wish they could hide the thread, that they don't want to read it. But they posted that on page 4 (I think it was page 4)... they could have just ignored the thread. We are all adults and we all know that the best way to end an argumentative thread is to ignore it. To end a tug of war only one person needs to let go of the rope.

And I have to admit, I have done the same. I have picked the rope back up. I came for the cuddles, but I have stayed, in part at least, for the drama. Don't get me wrong. I don't troll. I don't start fights. The arguments I have had here have all been genuine. I will join a fight that I believe in. Sometimes. And sometimes not.

It irks me when someone uses purposefully inflammatory language then complains of being harassed. When someone complains that their group is being stereotyped and then stereotypes the group of the member who offended them.

I have done this too! I'm calling myself out. And if choose to continue to seek out conflict here (let's be honest, there isn't much comforting being done in the forums), I will try and be more conscious of my posts and my intent.

So to that epiphany. I am here to admit to the dual nature of this man. It's like yin and yang. The conflict (yang) of the forums pairs neatly with the cuddles (yin) of the rest of the site. Positive attracts negative. In some circles they would say we are paying out our cuddle shadows here in the forums. Where there is light there is shadow. The fights are inevitable. It couldn't be any other way. Every attempt at utopia has been a failure.

I do wish there was a segment of the forum where people could only make compassionate responses. But it's my choice to keep coming here, and if I continue to do so, I will try and stop complaining of the argumentative nature of the forums here. I will try and cop to the fact that I am of a dual nature. Yin and Yang. Light and shadow. Cuddles and conflict.

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Comments

  • pmvinespmvines
    edited January 2025

    Not everyone feels there needs to be kid gloves and bleeding heart responses to everything. Complaining about the forums doesn't make you any better. It doesn't make you more virtuous. This isn't a therapy or self help group. Not giving happy go lucky responses doesnt mean that you're wrong. And giving happy go lucky responses doesnt mean you're right. It doesn't give you a moral high road. Frankly some people are extremely overly sensitive to criticism and conflict especially considering the emotional condition of some of the folks this site attracts. But I'm not responsible for whether or not they enjoy the forums. And maybe some people need to be offended. Some people think the more agreeable and passive you are the better. I disagree. I personally get just as tired of hearing people complain that there are meanies on the forums as someone else might be about there being meanies on the forums. It's a choice to participate and we all have a place at the table. We don't have to be entirely homogenous.

  • GuyverGordonGuyverGordon

  • BearBear

    Mr @pmvines always beats me to a well said and thought out answer. So This ⬆️

  • GuyverGordonGuyverGordon

    @Bear I feel like I got between you and your intended message ... 🙃

  • BearBear

    No problem.

  • BearBear

    I’m Italian, and Dr Evil seems to be speaking my language Mr @GuyverGordon

  • GuyverGordonGuyverGordon


    😆

  • MorpheusMorpheus

    @billiam there’s a group on here, it’s always the same people, they think they run the site and constantly attack people for very little reason. It’s a mob mentality. It is what is though and I don’t pay it much attention anymore.

  • ReltvlyCanshesReltvlyCanshes

    @billiam i think what your saying is true. Most of these posts are pages of people saying the same thing over and over. None of which is adding to the conversation. It's really bothersome to me when the appropriate answer to a lot of these questions are yes and no.... answer, explanation if you choose to do so and that's it. Maybe further explain if a question is asked but no need to defend your position because it's yours. No need to attack someone's opinion because it's theirs. Pontification for the sake is just inviting conflict.

    I also appreciate how you included yourself in the failure because we all do these things that cause strife. I know i try to be aware of it and avoid but it's hard.but just like all of be just written. It could have been an "i agree sir" but i added all those useless words because i tend to believe someone cares what i think. To sum it up. I agree sir.

  • KatotaKatota

    Not everyone feels there needs to be kid gloves and bleeding heart responses to everything. Complaining about the forums doesn't make you any better. It doesn't make you more virtuous. This isn't a therapy or self help group. Not giving happy go lucky responses doesnt mean that you're wrong. And giving happy go lucky responses doesnt mean you're right. It doesn't give you a moral high road. Frankly some people are extremely overly sensitive to criticism and conflict especially considering the emotional condition of some of the folks this site attracts. But I'm not responsible for whether or not they enjoy the forums. And maybe some people need to be offended. Some people think the more agreeable and passive you are the better. I disagree. I personally get just as tired of hearing people complain that there are meanies on the forums as someone else might be about there being meanies on the forums. It's a choice to participate and we all have a place at the table. We don't have to be entirely homogenous.

    👍👍👍👍👍

    @pmvines

    😁🫂😁🫂😁

  • SolarisSolaris

    @pmvines

    Not everyone feels there needs to be kid gloves and bleeding heart responses to everything.

    1000%. To further what I said, I wish there was a section where people can just get compassion if that's what they need. I think that would be good. But I also believe the hashing things out and seeking out truth section should be the main section.

    @pmvines
    Complaining about the forums doesn't make you any better. It doesn't make you more virtuous.

    Which is why I included myself in the argumentative group as well. I'm no better or worse.

    I will say that there are people who come just to argue and are disingenuous about that. People who don't own up to their motives. I have done that and wanted to set the record straight for the things I have said in the past. I like to argue sometimes, and I have, in the past, said otherwise.

    One of my points was that contention is a natural part of life. I'm not disparaging it. It should exist. But I think there should be a place on a cuddle site for compassionate only responses.

  • KatotaKatota

    @GuyverGordon
    😁

  • SolarisSolaris

    I'm all for your arguments. Before I had that realization, I was often against them. I would have been upset with @pmvines comment. But now that I've seen though my own hypocrisy and b.s., I'm cool with it.

    Except for the part of me that isn't. And that's cool with me too.

    If I implied or out right said people always need to be nice, that's not what I meant. I don't think that's healthy or realistic.

  • SolarisSolaris

    @Katota
    What's the fire girl from? I can't remember...

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    there should be a place on a cuddle site for compassionate only responses.

    The problem is you want what YOU want and that is a problem everyone has. People are messy. So when you ask for “compassionate responses “ one has to wonder what are the exact parameters of a compassionate response? People are messy and compassion is subjective. Some think compassion is just empathizing with the person and sometimes compassion is telling someone the hard truth about themself or the situation. Each can be construed as helpful, compassionate and caring; but they can also be interpreted as unhelpful, dismissive and uncaring.

    Yes, we all have bad days and get in petty spats in front of a handful of people who actually use the forums. The best advice I have is take a break when you feel the anger and conflict on the forums getting to you. I find that works best because you are not going to change anyone’s minds here, or govern their compassion or eradicate conflict. You can only control you. That is the best thing you can do for the forums. And that applies to everyone…present poster excluded.

  • KatotaKatota

    @Katota
    What's the fire girl from? I can't remember...

    @billiam Silent Hill. 😁

  • btc13btc13

    I believe that part of the reason for the conflicts here is that there is not only disagreement about the topic at hand, but also disagreement about how things are discussed. Some people are very comfortable with debating different viewpoints respectfully, responding civilly to alternate points of view, while others simply are looking for an echo chamber to validate their points of view and respond harshly to anyone who is not fully aligned with them. Suggesting that there are compassionate only responses would mean that only echo chambers are allowed and healthy debate is not tolerated. I personally think that healthy debate is good for society, although society's capacity to engage in it is becoming more and more scarce.

  • [Deleted User]WriterGF (deleted user)

    @billiam Thing is, your posts in the past were always thoughtful, well-reasoned, and calm. It's only been in the last five or six weeks I have seen you actually argue with anyone. Granted, I could easily have missed stuff, but I found myself wondering if something had happened in your life to change the tone of your posts.

  • KatotaKatota

    The best advice I have is take a break when you feel the anger and conflict on the forums getting to you. I find that works best because you are not going to change anyone’s minds here, or govern their compassion or eradicate conflict. You can only control you. That is the best thing you can do for the forums. And that applies to everyone

    👍👍👍👍👍

    @TheFunCartel Sound advice!😁

  • Vocalist100Vocalist100

    What confounds me is that some people get butthurt over the opinions and remarks of someone who has no other connection other than the CC forums, as if their opinion actually means anything or has any impact on their life. It takes someone I know and whose opinion I value (I respect everyone's opinion, even if most have no value) to actually get me in a tizzy if there's a conflict, but random strangers from the internet have pretty much zero capacity to get to me.

  • cozysoxcozysox
    1. I wanna say hi, so Hi 👋🏻 ☺️
    2. I truly could write a paper about the yin and yang, the shadow self, and the strife found in modern discourse, but I won't.
    3. Overall, I appreciate OP @billiam 's message, wording, and self-reflection.

    To further what I said, I wish there was a section where people can just get compassion if that's what they need. I think that would be good

    This is cuddling work to me. The pre-session communication needed to strengthen your boundaries allows for the exchange to be a platonic and powerfully compassionate experience. The work I do in cuddling is to bring total compassion. Unfortunately, I find that I must be strong in boundaries so as not to be taken advantage of since, as Rihanna said so well, "all of my kindness is taken for weakness". That's a conversation for a different thread.

    No one will convince me to stop being kind and compassionate.

    The cuddle, for me or what I give when I cuddle, is love and compassion, warmth and understanding, peace. If a person is in need of kid gloves a cuddle can help, public discourse probably will not.

  • SolarisSolaris

    @TheFunCartel
    You are definitely speaking to how I felt about things just a day ago. I did take breaks often because the the anger and conflict were getting to me. Then I’d come back and get angry again. Like @writerGF alluded to, I used to kind of swallow the anger and find a thoughtful, well-reasoned response. And then I’d just get upset again. It wasn’t the answer for me. I was about to walk away from the forums completely this week.

    Then I realized what I posted in the original post. That the arguing is actually good. Maybe I didn’t explain that well enough as it doesn’t seem that anyone is picking up on that part of it. My bad on that one.

    One thing I don’t like, however, is that many of the people here who wish to have a less punchy conversation sometimes, people who are hurting and want a virtual hug on a cuddle site, people who have left me very many DM’s about how they don’t like how punchy the forums are, have all quit posting here. And I realized that me swallowing my anger and taking a break was about to result in me leaving too. Which isn’t what I want. I do get a lot out of the arguing too. I have changed my mind on things because of arguments. I have also learned to speak up more often. And the new lesson, that anger and arguments are good too.

  • SolarisSolaris

    @btc13
    Not at all. I think the normal, argumentative, truth seeking portion of the forums should remain the main focus. There would just be this little side play area for people who want something else. And there are many people who want something like this. I have dozens and dozens of PM’s in my inbox from people who have left the forums because they want an alternative. As I stated in my posts, I actually like the arguing. Sometimes I want something different. And I have seen hurting people come here looking for a sympathetic ear only to be berated and leave the forums too. Healthy debate is good, but it doesn’t have to be a part of every single conversation. And when it repeatedly pushes people away, when it makes the divide between people wider, I have to wonder if there should be an alternative.

    The kind of thing I’m talking about can work. I’ve been a part of it. I’ve seen it work. Some people like it. And none of the people I met in those spaces have become incels or terrorists.

  • SolarisSolaris
    edited January 2025

    @WriterGF
    Yesterday I read this: Anger is a good example of how we hide our experience from ourselves. For many people, anger is a very unacceptable phenomenon on the one hand, and a very compulsive way of acting on the other. But when anger stimulates investigation, it becomes a meditation on life rather than a distraction from it-then the escape syndrome, the resistance to life, becomes recognizable and we start to come out of hiding. We start to emerge into the light.

    And then like I said above, I read through that angry thread and had my ah-ha moment. And now I am cool with the anger. I just want a space to talk here about other things too. It was doing me no good to ONLY – I say only because I know people will miss it-it does me no good to be ONLY calm and well-reasoned. Anger is necessary too. And taking on my own anger has led me to this ah-ha moment and now I feel better, now I don’t feel like I need to leave the forums like all the others have.

    A few things happened. I’ll put them in a spoiler tag as it’s a bit of a sidebar.

    Like I mentioned before, the calm, well-reasoned approach got me dozens and dozens of DM’s from people who liked what I had to say. But over time, most of those DM’s eventually started to include phrases like “and that’s why I don’t post here anymore.” My approach wasn’t helping anything. Not really. I wasn’t happy swallowing my anger, and I am not happy that a great many amazing voices are no longer being voiced, or heard, here.

    The other part is that I have learned a life lesson: we need to make space for all of our feelings, including anger. In the past 3 months:

    1. My mother died from vascular dementia less than two weeks ago. She hadn’t been able to speak, write or communicate at all for the last 18 months.

    2. Seven of my friends lost their homes in Florida during the two hurricanes. The people we hired to help her in different ways all lost their homes too. So I lost the help. And my mother’s nursing home was evacuated too, and we almost had to move her again for the 5th time in 18 months. That was stressful and scary.

    3. I was in a car accident that was not my fault that damaged my back and neck. It was quite painful and disruptive. I am still going through it.

    4. My sister totaled my mother’s car and had a serious head injury. Not to mention now my mother is being sued and as power of attorney and health care surrogate for my mom, I am handling it. My sister is also being sued, but so is my mother.

    5. And lastly, the woman I have lived with for 10 years, my best friend and spiritual sister, was just diagnosed with a very serious cancer. We don’t know how serious yet, but for 3 weeks it seemed like a death a sentence for her. We went through Christmas and New Year’s feeling like it might be her last. We got some better news just this week, but on the heels of everything else, it was a big blow.

    So what I have learned through all this is that anger is important. When I saw my mom, my sister, my best friend have anger and express it, the anger moved on. Things were easier. They returned to peace. They felt better. I felt better. Whenever the anger was swallowed or repressed, things got worse. The anger increases. Pain gets worse. Confusion gets worse. Fear gets worse. So many things.

  • [Deleted User]WriterGF (deleted user)

    One thing I have tried to do (not always successfully) is to simply scroll past the posts of the very small number of people whose opinions I do not respect. It's not ideal, but I have enough stress in my life, I don't need to see comments I know are just going to get me irritated. There are people on here who really like to debate (and that's cool); there are people who are pretty obviously triggered by other members; and there are people who just want attention, even if it's negative attention. Frankly, I think these forums probably drive more people away than entice to stay here.

  • [Deleted User]CharlesGrove (deleted user)

    Many of us here are isolated, and know that we have little or no impact on the world.

    Our reactions to those facts vary, but do tend to be emotional.

  • pmvinespmvines

    @billiam
    To be clear, I realize you are.expressing an idea and taking a view from both sides approach and wishing it could be different. I understand and respect that. If I am emphatic about my point please understand that it is the premise.of how I feel and what I believe personally myself, and that I am not attacking you or belittling your thought. I mean what I say when I said there is room at the table for all of us whether we all agree or not.

  • TxTomTxTom

    This is a damn good thread.

  • btc13btc13

    @billiam I think that you are correct that there are discussions which are geared more towards debate, others which are seeking information, others which are just looking to share something positive, and others which are only seeking compassion. For the most part, the discussions maintain the mood for what the thread initiator intended, for example the threads about how best to cuddle someone with autism or discussing an unfortunate cancer diagnosis have maintained the proper decorum and given the correct level of compassion or provided valuable information about the topic at hand. There have been instances where either debate was inserted into a discussion where it didn't follow the theme of the posting, or that the debate degenerated into personal attacks instead of remaining a discussion of alternate /opposing ideas which probably lead to the discussions which may drive people out of the forums. Some of us call out that type of behavior to try and discourage it, which can be unpleasant, but with the interest of preserving the decorum of these forums.

    I don't know if it is possible to categorize threads into different categories along the lines of what I described above so that those who are deterred by the tenor of the debate threads can avoid them and focus on the threads they are most interested in. Also, it may make moderation easier because if someone is trying to start a debate in a thread that was clearly not intended for it, there would be less of a judgement call about which posts should be removed.

    Sidebar: That was a really rough year for you last year. Hope you have a better 2025.

  • GuyverGordonGuyverGordon

    I think something that is hard here is that emotions sometimes does not translate well in forums. What I type may not be what is read. The tone in which I mean it may not be how it is received.

    It is part of the reason I like to use gifs so much. While it isn't 100%, I think gifs may help convey the tone I mean. Or maybe help lighten things up a bit.

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