Is this a dating site (wink, wink)?

docgatorbdocgatorb
in General
I wish that I realized this before so that I could have kept from going in the deep end. Now it's too late, I've ;lost my footing.Soon I will be confused enough to stick my own foot in my mouth and then nibble on the toes and tell everyone how great it feels and how for a mere $80 they could have an hour of this. Really, I don't where CC is going or if anyone is that the wheel. Maybe I need a hug.
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Comments

  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    No (blank stare)

    Seriously dude what the heck?
  • CrispinCrispin
    I don't think of it as a dating site. It just has those overtones and that's ok.
    I think there are many serious huggers who are on the right track.
  • [Deleted User]SnuggleSymmetry (deleted user)
    If this was a dating site the women would be picky with men and they would ignore most of their messages, oh wait.
  • bluestripesbluestripes
    Doc, what makes you think that? I haven't been following the threads closely lately, did I miss something?

    "Where CC is going and who's at the wheel" -- I have some thoughts around that, but since I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, I'll hold my tongue just yet :)
  • MarkMark Mod
    edited August 2016
    This is not a dating website or at least that is not the intention.

    When it comes to direction of the website, I am primarily at the wheel. It might seem otherwise as I like to see a community evolve naturally without too much intervention. 
  • frankparker9frankparker9
    You're thinking of Tinder.
  • [Deleted User]Samuel616 (deleted user)
    Seriously! This the exact opposite of a dating site. The point of this site is explicitly to find people to cuddle with in a non-romantic non-sexual way.

    And, for the record, if this where a dating saying "wink wink" and talking about nibbling toes would not be a good way get a date.
  • BruinBruin
    I share doc's feelings (I think) there's an increasingly date site vibe to the place. Shopping lists and stuff that has nothing to do with cuddling. I've been hanging on in the hope that the site will somehow turn a corner toward it's stated objective but I'm engaging less and less with the site and despairing more and more.
  • docgatorbdocgatorb
    @Bruin I think that you expressed things better than I did, but I was trying to be provocative and apparently I was. I have a gut feeling that it is somewhat related to the 'professional' option presented as an option to new members. Maybe the 'professional' approach is the greatest thing since margarine, but I feel that it puts a twist on the whole cuddling thing by implying that women aren't getting the same benefit from cuddling as men, so they should be compensated for their time, the same as a plumber or some other craftsman. Maybe these two things are unrelated.
  • [Deleted User]paulmuaddib (deleted user)
    I don't think professionals are treating this like a dating site....but I do think many of the non professionals are.

  • Cuddlygal21Cuddlygal21
    I'm still pretty new here, but I'm curious  - are there any male professional cuddlers?  I'm guessing there are more females in that role - but I don't believe it's because they're not getting the same benefit from cuddling as men. I can only speak for myself, but I honestly think that it's due more to how we're socialized, as well as that innate mothering instinct. So I think more women are drawn to the role. And if they enjoy it and realize they can also make some legitimate income by doing it, I say more power to them. 
    If there are, in fact, fewer professional male cuddlers, what do you think is stopping more men from going into it?
  • MarkMark Mod
    edited September 2016
    We have recently experimented with having male cuddlers but as expected the demand is almost nonexistent so I'm not sure we'll continue with that.
  • docgatorbdocgatorb
    I'm glad to hear this, Mark. But even if the demand is nonexistent, is it really a strain on your resources to offer both? I would think that a non-sexist approach would be preferred. I mean, do the women have to demonstrate a clientele before being accepted? Is age considered?
  • MarkMark Mod
    edited September 2016
    Yes, it's a strain on resources based on our current setup. We monitor each account for record keeping purposes as the fees are in form of a tax rather than we take the money then give the professional their share.

    Age is not a consideration but we do try to judge whether someone will receive demand before accepting. That can be based on location, their application text, whether they have experience with other agencies etc.
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)

    So this is really a male oriented clearing house for "professional" female cuddlers. Explains some things. Rethinking my participation here. 

  • [Deleted User]SnuggleSymmetry (deleted user)
    @Arielle Well men are the one's that need the most cuddles. Look at any professional cuddle website, Craigslist, Backpage, etc. It's women offering their services to lonely men.
  • [Deleted User]SnuggleSymmetry (deleted user)
    Women get bombarded with messages. For them online dating and cuddle websites are like a buffet.
  • docgatorbdocgatorb
    I respect that the money is collected from the cuddler after the fact, much more above board than some of the businesses describe in the forums. The business model seems to be designed to accommodate members who were already doing this as a business and would like to integrate and promote their business through this site. However, it also introduces new members to this practice as a way to get cuddles and money. I saw where some new members signed up as professionals and only later realized that they had done so. In the end, does the site have the intention more to promote cuddling as a human behavior that should be more freely shared between individuals or a way to make money. I realized that these two intentions are not necessarily in conflict with each other and that Mark approached this in a manner sensitive to the various issues. I ask that question now that there is some experience to draw on.
  • MarkMark Mod
    edited September 2016
    "The business model seems to be designed to accommodate members who were already doing this as a business and would like to integrate and promote their business through this site. "

    Yes, exactly. Either we used resources preventing professionals being here or we helped integrate them and get something in return. It was never the plan when this place was created but that's how it has evolved. Professionals still represent a tiny proportion of members here but it can seem otherwise based on the fact they are online more.

    "I saw where some new members signed up as professionals and only later realized that they had done so."

    That's not possible by the way. You cannot sign up as a professional - you first have to create a standard account, then file an application and then once I have reviewed it I can manually upgrade the account via the database.
  • docgatorbdocgatorb
    Thanks for clearing that up, Mark. I will add that you brought this up to the community before making your decision and this business model is consistent with most of the opinions expressed at the time (in case there are new members who haven't read all the old forum entries).
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    Personally I do feel the presence of professionals here adds an unpleasant "marketplace" feel (totally opposite to a "dating site" feel), but I respect Mark's right to seek some kind of funding source for this site (maintaining a website like this doesn't come cheap).

    I get the impression that most women who sign up here get scared off by PM overload, some genuinely get involved, and the rest think "hey I can make some money off of this". They are the professionals, making money from other people's misery, exactly the kind of people you DON'T want to spend time with.
  • docgatorbdocgatorb
    Although I also question the effect of 'professionals' on the site, my concern is more the rationale behind charging more than some craftsmen who have spent years honing their skills and put real physical labor into their work. It's the old "charge whatever the market will bear". I don't see the motivation as quite so mercenary, after all, they didn't create the misery. I can see compensating for the cost of transportation and such, but how much labor is actually involved?
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)

    @Naturaloceans , thanks for putting some of my misgivings into words. Marketplace is exactly right, with some women as the commodity and other women somehow not as "user friendly"  because no cash is involved and choosing to engage is a personal decision.  I suspect some men prefer the marketplace feel. Cash exchanged and commodity delivered.  THAT is what is "scaring" me off, as well as some of the thoughts and feelings that have been expressed in the forums.

    I've had some success on here, and talked to some really nice people (most too far away) but I am now sure I can do as well or better involving myself in a cuddling group, or even just being open with friends about the need for cuddling without the rather creepy feeling I've gotten from some, particularly in the forum.

    I also agree with Doc in a way. Something about charging to hug and hold someone really just strikes me stinking to high heaven.  No skill, just a warm body. Hm.


  • bluestripesbluestripes
    May I say a few words in support of paid cuddling?

    Even though I've never paid or got paid for cuddling, nor have I ever talked to a professional of either gender; but I have heard from multiple people who've used these services -- people mostly not that vocal on the forum. These conversations led me to believe that professional cuddling is a great thing, and I often encourage people to try it.

    When humans engage in any kind of relationship, it's always an (energetic?) exchange of a kind. We like each other and so we are friends, and I'm good with listening to you complain, and you are good with having me over and giving me food and tea. There's an exchange here; but in a good relationship what we give is so easy for us, we might not even see that it is an exchange; in fact, often both people will wonder if the other person gives more than they do!

    But what happens when we are not able to give back (or even just perceive ourselves as not having anything to offer). That tends to happen when we are in the hardest of our lives: when we are low and depressed, when we find ourselves in completely new circumstances, whether geographically or emotionally (or both). When we can't even think of doing the work of putting ourselves out there and going through all the trial and error.

    For these circumstances we have the wonderful medium of money. And we have some amazing, brave people who decided that they will give us touch, care, affection without expecting that their needs are met at the same time, but who instead are okay receiving the money. Who make themselves available to help the most aching of us, the most confused, the most needy.

    I say, thank goodness for professionals. The fact that we don't even have an option for males is disturbing and sexist and unfair, but we might get there eventually. I'm really thankful to the professionals for the work that they do, as I witnessed it through the eyes of those who benefitted from it. I say "no" to people all the time because I'm looking for my needs to be met, but often my heart aches as I see that the person I'm talking to is in pain and really needs a cuddle. It is great that we have that option.
  • docgatorbdocgatorb
    @bluestripes Well stated. As a massage therapist, I would have to agree with what you say. I would have to convince new therapists to charge money for their services. Even though they had just spent two years learning their skill, they felt that they should do it free. Money is our medium for exchange of energy and energy exchange is necessary for healing. The exchange should be direct, not through a disinterested 3rd party. Even modern medicine sometimes fails because the energy exchange is handled by a third party (insurance). The amount of the exchange should be determined by the practitioner and agreed upon by the person being treated. This is how Mark does it here (he simply provides the guidance of what others are charging). This is how it is done by traditional healers.
  • Cuddlygal21Cuddlygal21
    @bluestripes Eloquently put! And I agree - I really think there should be an option for male cuddlers. As much as I'm a proponent of reciprocity, sometimes we all find ourselves in that place where it would be nice to have someone focus solely on you. Just as if you were going in for a massage. Why shouldn't that be an option if the man is professional, respectful, and adheres to the cuddling code of conduct? As a single mom of a child with disabilities, I can certainly say I find myself in need of that sometimes and don't always have the energy to give that same level of attention back. So being able to go to a professional would actually be a welcome option. Sadly if you're not in a romantic relationship, you pretty much have to do without adult physical contact (outside of say, casual hugs with friends, etc).
  • 50statecuddlr50statecuddlr
    It may not be a dating site, BUT I just met someone from this site for a pre-cuddle date, and a few hours later we were happily married!!!!!! Now I am being cuddled for life!!! YAY!!!
  • [Deleted User]SnuggleSymmetry (deleted user)
    Annoying
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    @50statecuddlr seems legit...
  • [Deleted User]Cara (deleted user)
    @bluestripes Thank you for presenting the other side of the issue! I've been a member of the site since January, and I've had several positive experiences as well as several negative ones in that time. In July, I decided to apply to be a professional cuddler for two reasons: 1) with the aid of the clearly defined boundaries in the cuddler and client contracts, to better protect my own safety and deter some of the unwanted sexual advances lurking under the surface of many supposed would-be cuddlers -- in essence to weed out those who, unlike me, do seem to view this as a dating site or worse, a cheap hookup site in disguise (this comment, unfortunately, is based not on mere suspicion but on personal experience -- I've had multiple interactions with people who contacted me on this site to meet for a cuddle and only later made their unwelcome and often inappropriate true intentions known), and 2) in the course of my non-professional interactions with others on the site, I discovered cuddling is something I can do quite well when I put my mind to it, and I see professional cuddling as an opportunity to use that gift to help other people without being distracted by whether my own cuddle needs were being met equally as well as the other person's... something I believed I could achieve by approaching cuddles from a more objective, and yes, professional standpoint.
    The reality is that a single cuddle, like most interactions between two people, is rarely ever exactly as satisfying to both parties involved. Rather it is a balancing act of give and take that is only evened out over the course of many interactions with the same partner. It's much like a conversation with a friend -- usually in any given conversation, one person does more talking and the other more listening; if that were the only conversation to ever take place between those two individuals, things would be left very imbalanced; however, a true friendship typically includes an infinite series of conversations with a varying amount of give and take from each party that balances out over time. From what I have observed and experienced, cuddling is very similar to listening in the sense that it lies much closer to the "giving" end of the spectrum than the "taking" end.
    Some people prefer to talk to a professional therapist in place of or in addition to their friends and family, and they willingly pay for the therapist's time and skill as a listener/giver. I believe cuddling will someday be recognized as a valid form of therapy as well, but whether it is or not, I have a naturally empathetic and nurturing personality, and this is a gift I would like to use to help others by acting a professional cuddler/giver (in essence a cuddle therapist).
    As for the discussion of compensation, I would love to see more open and honest dialogue about this. In attempting to determine what rate to charge, I have found it difficult to strike the right note between how much is enough to be taken seriously and make this worth my time and how much might prospective clients feel is reasonable in return for the service they receive. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get a straight answer on that second factor. In the few conversations I've had with prospective clients, they have no problem saying that whatever number I've set out as a starting point is too high, but they seem unable or unwilling to take the time to actually determine the value of the service for themselves and negotiate a reasonable rate based on that consideration. Though I don't have a degree in cuddling or any kind of certification (I would certainly pursue one if there were a legitimate program readily available), I do take my "craft" seriously and have invested a significant amount of my own resources, time and energy in research and practice since I made the decision to go pro.
    Unfortunately, it's beginning to seem like that has all been for naught as I have yet to receive any truly serious inquiries regarding my services -- it seems the only people I hear from are those who just seem to want to critique the idea of charging to cuddle or ask if I cuddle naked (I don't. And if they bothered to take it seriously enough to look at the contract, they'd know that's not even an option). For the most part, going pro has saved me quite a bit of time in weeding out those who aren't here for the right reasons or at least not the same reasons I'm here for (which are the same as those clearly stated by Cuddle Comfort as "the goal of bringing physical affection to more people without the romantic prerequisites."), but it also seems to have scared off anyone else who might actually be here for the right reasons... why have so many bought into the ignorant and unfair stigma against professional cuddling? Uninformed bias helps no one. Never has.
    At this point, I'm at a loss as to what to do next. Do I give up my "professional" status and the benefits that come with that (meaning the safety and clarity of the contract -- because believe it or not I'm not in this for the money -- I'm blessed to have a full time job with pay more than adequate for my needs) and go back to the hassle of fending off the come-ons and sorting through the BS just in case there's some tiny nugget of truth in there somewhere? Or do I throw it all out, walk away completely and just give up on my silly aspiration to help make the world a better place by cuddling?
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