People claiming they are female when they are actually trans

natural_oceansnatural_oceans
in General

With something as personal as cuddling it matters whether someone is female or trans. But some profile claim to be female when there obviously not. Also I had someone message me state that she is female when she is obviously trans. If I employing someone it would not be my choice whether I employed someone trans or not but when I cuddle someone I feel I have the right to make that choice. and it's decidedly deceptive for someone to not be honest about that. Have do others feel?

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Comments

  • [Deleted User]DarrenWalker (deleted user)

    The problem is the difference between gender and sex. English uses the word "female" to describe both a certain sex and a certain gender, which can be confusing.

    Gender has to do with who a person is. Sex has to do with what a person's body is. Trans women are female—it's just their bodies that aren't (unless they've had them reshaped). A woman who says she's female when her body is male isn't lying or trying to mislead you. It's a language problem.

    It does matter what shape of body you're cuddling. People have preferences, and that's okay. Maybe the site should have an option for physical sex and one for gender?

  • natural_oceansnatural_oceans

    I realize that distinction but question is clearer asked what genitals the people has. There are lots of trans options so they have no excuse not to use them.

  • [Deleted User]DarrenWalker (deleted user)

    Well, some people do like to keep their privates private. Weird, I know....

    But you said the one woman was "obviously trans," so she must have had a picture up? If so, she wasn't withholding the information you wanted, anyway. After all, from even just a face pic you can get a decent idea of what you can expect any given cuddler to have in terms of muscle or curve or... you know, all the secondary sexual characteristics. Humans are really good at spotting those signs, so if you put up a picture you're kind of giving up the whole "private privates" thing.

    Still, I can understand someone wanting to keep that information to themselves. After all, everyone on this site keeps their clothes on while cuddling (or at least they're supposed to), so a shy person might think, What does it matter?

    It does matter. There are differences. But not everyone's as comfortable broadcasting the state of their genitalia to the world as cis people are—which can cause difficulty on sites like this, where people like to know more or less what sort of body the person they've agreed to cuddle with is going to be wearing when they meet. Height, weight, curve, muscle, squoosh....

    For the sake of preferences, it's good to be upfront. But don't get mad if someone isn't. They're probably just shy.

  • natural_oceansnatural_oceans

    I should have realised this subject would attract the attention of SJW as well as reasonable people. Most trans people are reasonable respectable people who are capable of being honest. They don't need you to defend their "right" to be dishonest.

  • [Deleted User]DarrenWalker (deleted user)

    Hey, this is the first time I've been called a social justice warrior! Celebrate with me, people of the internet, for today I have been elevated to the ranks of those who fight for justice in society!

    More seriously, though, it's not dishonest to keep your privates private. It is a little weird in a society where everyone expects to know what everyone else's bits are shaped like right off—but it's not dishonest. In pretty much every other situation a trans person will encounter in life, it might even be the safest move. People have been murdered for having a body that doesn't match their self before. It's tough not to be shy about revealing a fact that might get you killed, you know?

  • MarkMark Mod
    edited September 2018

    With something as personal as cuddling it matters whether someone is female or trans. But some profile claim to be female when there obviously not.

    @natural_oceans I understand your feelings on this. We have options for all genders partly to avoid that scenario.

    If I see someone is a Trans-Woman but has chosen a different option on their profile then I'm inclined to correct that. Profiles here should be accurate. I assume it's often a mistake but who knows.

    I should have realised this subject would attract the attention of SJW

    I think most people are SJWs at heart but I guess whether the derogatory form of that label applies depends on where you fall on the spectrum between idealism and realism.

  • [Deleted User]Stitcher (deleted user)

    Trans women are women. Full stop. End of story.

  • MarkMark Mod
    edited September 2018

    I don't think it's reasonable to shutdown a discussion like that when the subject is regularly debated in the mainstream. Until it isn't a topic that involves a diverse range of views, open discussion should be encouraged.

    I think the issue regarding this thread is the vast majority of people make a distinction between Women and Trans-Women because they are thinking of Cis-Women. Until that expectation changes, it's worthwhile making the distinction between the two on a website that involves a vast range of preferences for a cuddle buddy.

  • ChocolatetreatChocolatetreat

    @natural_oceans bro your not going to win this argument nobody cares about a mans feeling they will argue that trans women are females and your a bad person for refusing to cuddle with them.

  • pmvinespmvines

    I am an avid supporter of the LBGT community and have no personal discomfort with trans people. However I do see the OP point. I don't feel it is necessarily a question of being against trans people or not supporting how someone chooses to identify, but rather about personal contact and affection as well as honesty. In the same way that it is my preference to cuddle anatomical women, the OP has the same preference.

    However if someone is trans and chooses to not disclose this on their profile or in initial contact that is totally their prerogative. There are many reasons why they may choose to do this. And I am sure if you had an exchange with the person and they felt comfy they would disclose it to you especially if talk was made about meeting. However you cant really get too upset over someone simply having a profile that doesn't state if they are trans or not without even getting to know the person or their circumstance. And you also might be thinking they are trans simply based on their appearance when they really aren't .

  • White_KnightWhite_Knight

    I would just ask em up front, I mean be respectful about it of course, but just ask em and let their answer be what determines if you want to cuddle with em or not.

    Also, I don't think it makes you a bad person if you wish to opt out just because they're trans. Just like if someone doesn't want to cuddle a person with tattoos, that's fine too. It doesn't mean you "hate them" or that "you're mean for saying no" or anything, its just a preference.

  • PinkLipstick22PinkLipstick22

    Please do keep in mind that in reality, it's not any of your business, and most will choose not to disclose to keep themselves safe. This is a platonic cuddling site, at least for now, and this means that what's going on under someone's clothing shouldn't impact the experience in anyway.

    Meeting up for cuddling can be pretty nerve wracking when part of a privileged group, whether it's first time or 300th time, and adding in the layer of being in the most vulnerable group in existence can increase the risk to astronomical levels.

    Your personal preference < someone's safety/life

    If you don't like the look of someone after seeing a pic, just decline rather than make them uncomfortable or feeling vaguely threatened.

    This is my 2 cents that I think should apply to a community that claims to be inclusive and welcoming.
    Happy Cuddling.

  • AndiCuddlesAndiCuddles

    Well, I don’t think you should probably just judge that they have mis-identified themself based on a photo. But, as an enthusiast or client, if you’re uncomfortable with anyone’s appearance you can just politely say no or stop communicating.

    Frankly, I’ve seen a lot of people lie about things on their profile — age, height, and body type, for example. So, singling out sex/gender seems somewhat unnecessary. Especially since trans-women have a particularly high murder rate (for being trans) in the Americas. (Interestingly, the UK is statistically the least dangerous person to live as a trans-woman.)

    Also, from my own personal experience, it seems cis-men are particularly paranoid(?) about trans-women being disguised as a cis-woman.

    This past summer, a virtual stranger (who was male) asked me if I was ‘really a woman.’ This was bizarre to me. I said, “Uh, yes?” I had no idea why they might have thought otherwise or what business it was of theirs. After I said yes the person said, “Okay, just checking.”

    It left me feeling really shaken, since the tone in which the person asked was definitely aggressive. What if I was a trans-woman? I have friends who are trans and non-gender-conforming and it left me feeling scared for them.

    A few minutes after the stranger went away, I realized why they had asked: I wear an estrogen patch. It’s usually an inch or two below the top of my pants, and a few more inches below my top. But, I guess I placed it higher than usual, because if I moved a certain way, you could see it where my shirt and pants met. (I wear an estrogen patch because I’ve had a full hysterectomy. It’s pretty uncommon for women my age, so I guess the patch looked ‘suspicious’?)

    Also, it’s a really sad, strange world when the term ‘social justice warrior’ is a pejorative. Even if you’re an idealist. :-/

  • natural_oceansnatural_oceans

    It's my business who I choose to cuddle you can't tell me that it isn't. And since we're talking with about someone who is contacting me asking for a cuddle that is shouldn't be information they can withhold or lie about.

  • AndiCuddlesAndiCuddles

    Uh... okay. Your post specifically says:

    If I employing someone it would not be my choice whether I employed someone trans or not but when I cuddle someone I feel I have the right to make that choice. and it's decidedly deceptive for someone to not be honest about that. Have do others feel? [sic]

    But I guess you weren’t looking for opinions. You just wanted to complain.

    Whelp, mission accomplished for you!

  • pmvinespmvines

    @natural_oceans Of course you can choose who to cuddle. Just because someone is trans on here and may not have it listed up front doesn't mean you have to cuddle them. It is their business to disclose what they choose just like it is your business to choose who to cuddle. I am sure you are not meeting a plethora of folks only to find after cuddling that they are trans correct?

  • SuzanneSuzanne

    @AndiCuddles I too have been asked if I can send more pics to prove I’m really a woman. I was completely insulted by this and assumed they were requesting nsfw pics. Guess maybe I jumped the gun on this? Oh well, yes, I’m really a woman, was born this way. But I’m sure not going to prove it to you!!!

  • AngelPendavezAngelPendavez

    @AndiCuddles
    Oh my gosh, I felt fearful just reading about your experience. I felt the aggression, even before you explained. Yeesh ?

    As far as the original post, here's where I stand.

    Considering the platonic nature of this site, I think that what's between a person's legs is their business and no one else's. (As it's been said before 'woman' is a gender expressive term, different from 'female', though often used incorrectly to express gender.)

    However, I also believe that both parties should be comfortable. So if you need to know what kind of equipment a person has to be comfortable, you have to be willing to be upfront about that, and you'll need partners who don't mind disclosing that information.

    Some people only cuddle men or women for preference or comfort issues. Some people might fear men or women because they've had traumatic experiences, you never know.

    I think as long as you approach the situation openly, honestly, and tactfully, you can do right by yourself and the other person.

    I can understand wanting full disclosure, but as it has been mentioned before, sometimes it's just a language thing (female and woman are not interchangeabl. You can be a woman even if you weren't born female). Could be a misunderstanding, or it could be that the person doesn't want to out themselves as trans for comfort or safety reasons (trans women are a massive target for violence, also mentioned before).

  • MesattaMesatta

    Another valid reason someone may not choose one of the 'other' gender options is because they may prefer to discuss this with people once they become comfortable. Or they're questioning. Or the other options don't fit them. Everyone's experience is different.
    I don't think any significant percentage of the trans population actively go around trying to deceive people into having physical contact under false pretenses.

  • [Deleted User]galowglass (deleted user)

    @Mesatta ++

  • CreativeCuddlesCreativeCuddles

    @natural_oceans I agree with you. Wanting to know if someone is trans is up to the cuddler not this panel. If they are proud of who they are they will share it. I would cuddle either way but we are all entitled to cuddle with whom we wish and not be bashed for our decision or for asking a forum their thoughts. Would a man cuddle with someone that had a profile with no picture not knowing if they were male or female? No, this is no different. You have your reasons as do men that won’t cuddle with men. Women that won’t cuddle with women. It’s almost not worth it to voice an opinion here. If other cuddlers don’t agree with you, you are definitely wrong for having a choice and/or opinion.

  • [Deleted User]snughugs (deleted user)

    The way I see it, I'd be quite perturbed if someone messaged me asking if I have a vagina or not on a site that's meant to be platonic in nature. I see it as akin to asking my cuddle buddy if he's been circumcised. It's equal amounts inappropriate, awkward and irrelevant.

    Now, do I think it's common courtesy to disclose whether one is cis or trans? Sure. Just as I would disclose if I'm chubby, skinny, tall or short. However I doubt it would be the end of the world - or even noticeable - if someone I was cuddling was trans. Perhaps it comes back to this notion that many people only cuddle those who they would romantically date. That, I think, ruins the whole idea of platonic cuddling.

    That being said I do feel people are entitled to their preferences and to not have those preferences questioned. Who we share our space with is personal and nobody else's business but our own. However I do feel that it's perhaps a bit on the nose going out of one's way to say 'hello I wouldn't cuddle this specific demographic of people' on a public platform (I do have to wonder, would stating a preference for white people be this socially acceptable?) but nobody is obligated to adhere to my morals.

    As an aside - I'm curious @Mark, how do you spot trans people who have misidentified themselves on their profiles? I'm a cis woman, however I'm also very tall, muscular with short hair and an androgynous face. I often get misidentified as either a man or a trans woman. I'm interested to see if I'd be flagged under the system.

  • MarkMark Mod
    edited September 2018

    I believe in every case they mentioned it somewhere in their profile. That's why I'm sceptical of the idea of dishonesty being the leading reason behind this. It might be the case sometimes but in those cases it's probably dishonesty in order to make some sort of point rather than to trick someone.

  • [Deleted User]chococuddles (deleted user)

    As I've stated before I have trans friends (mtf and ftm) who clarify they are trans on their dating profiles. Mainly to avoid conflict and for safety reasons. No, this isn't a dating site but people do have preferences and age and gender are two categories many people fill out.

    With CC having added so many diverse labels in the profile section it seems that all bases are covered so people can choose accordingly. To me a woman is a woman, cisgender or transgender, I've cuddled with both and both cuddle well.

    While I can see the point of of @natural_oceans I'm assuming the trans population makes up a small portion of this website. If you know for a fact she is trans and that isn't your preference move on to someone who is.

  • [Deleted User]snughugs (deleted user)

    I see, that sounds fair :)

  • natural_oceansnatural_oceans
    edited September 2018

    "However I doubt it would be the end of the world - or even noticeable - if someone I was cuddling was trans."

    Maybe this language problem between you and me. If someone had a erection between their legs I think would be noticeable and it would be my right to choose not to cuddle them. I choose to cuddle them. But I not. Just like a woman has a right to choose whether to cuddle a person with a penis or not so do I.

    "how do you spot trans people who have misidentified themselves on their profiles?"

    By the bone structure of they're face.

  • MarkMark Mod
    edited September 2018

    I'm concerned this discussion is going to escalate into something heated. This topic is a controversial one with valid opinions on all sides. As it is controversial, please can we all be particularly careful and considerate with the language we use to express our views as to respect people's sensitivities here.

    I've removed the last two posts as a precaution for that purpose and made a minor edit to the above.

  • pmvinespmvines

    @natural_oceans There are a lot of what ifs and assumptions being made here though. I doubt you would ever get to the point of meeting a trans person for a cuddle before it got to the point of knowing they are trans. You aren't picking them up off the street after all. I honestly doubt that is a real issue that you or others here have experienced for, as I said, if they were to the point of meeting up with you, I am quite certain there would be enough trust and rapport for that conversation to have been had. Seems you are more upset with folks mis identifying themselves on their profiles than the potential of actually meeting them not knowing. I doubt that has ever happened to you. Seems more wanting to call someone out.

  • pmvinespmvines

    @natural_oceans I have a preference for cuddling anatomical females. Though I have crazy respect for LGBT community this is my preference. However you are going about expressing your preference from only your POV. There are a myriad of reasons one may choose not to identify as trans right from the start. I don't believe there is any hidden agenda behind it and I am certain once there is some rapport and trust the few who don't identify at first would. Try seeing it from the POV of why is this person choosing not to self identify, and not how it affects you. Because ultimately it is their life and their story, not yours. You can move on to the next profile. But this is their body that they live in.

  • LovelightLovelight

    In terms of just cuddles and platonic friendships, it is a case of like: looks like a man, sounds like a man. Most of all they are a kind and respectful person, I am cool with.

    If however someone who sounds like a woman and looks like a woman (not having done voice, and appearance alterations wants to claim they are a man, I'd not take that. So in a way I am somewhat open. I respect if it's not your comfort level however.

    Unfortunately it's not as simple as insert trans option and they should identify themselves as that. In an idea world that'd be good, let who is okay with cuddling a man or a woman do just that, likewise a trans person. Though trans people also fear and can often take them a bit of time to feel the person before they can open up and let them know what's what.

    They fear facing haters and people who will shame them for being a trans-person, as oppose to respect them and being thankful to know.

    Again this is not to say trans people should hide especially when it comes to intimacy whatever the level in general. However, we also must understand that it's okay that sometimes it can take sometime for the person to first get to know you as a decent human that will not shame them for being themselves.

    Although the trans community is a minority compared to all of us. Maybe if you're finding yourself running into trans individuals and you are uncomfortable, that's okay we must respect your comfort too. You might find mentioning in your profile in a respectful manner that you would rather cuddle with just Cis-woman/men. And hope that someone doesn't misunderstand this for hatred.

    For example: While I do respect trans people, I am only comfortable with sharing cuddles with Cis-persons. Thank you for your interest and hope you find someone mutually comfortable with you!

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