I understand wanting to know because that is my right, yet I understand why they would want to hide it for fear of being judged or rejected There are hundreds of stories where trans have hid it and when someone found out they were severly beat, attacked and even killed. It’s sad we aren’t accepted for who we are but just as much as that individual deserves to be cuddled as whomever they wish to be we as the cuddler deserve to know and decide for ourselves whether we want to cuddle them. I personally wouldn’t care but I agree I would want to know. THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY!!
I am all for respect. However being logical and realistic is not the definition of hate or transonic lol auto correct, I mean transphobic.
Although I have yet to read a lot more of your feed-back. As far as I read @Mark replies he has really good points! Likewise with many of your, though I have yet to read all.
@Stitcher
"Trans women are women. Full stop. End of story."
First let's not shut each other up from debating, and having conversations. That is how we understand each other and grow. Even if we don't agree, it is important we take time to hear each other.
As for your response: "Trans women are women." They are not Cis-woman. There are no trans women that can give birth, or have the cycle of women. As for Cis-women who can't have babies or get their monthly cycle or who are too old, we recognize to either be a health issue or past their stage. However these due to health conditions are a minority and or often short lived. For things such as manopause - it's part of life.
I run a Facebook page at AcceptLoveLight which I share some educational content on this subject, likewise you can look deeper into it with your own research. (This is not an ad for my page just to let you know that you are welcome to get a different perspective).
Transgenderism is complex. It is worth exploring and understanding like every other disorder, issue and challenge. Respecting while also being logical and science based.
@Mark
With your permission I'd like to share your:
"I think most people are SJWs at heart but I guess whether the derogatory form of that label applies depends on where you fall on the spectrum between idealism and realism." - Mark
?
Too many acronyms on this site. What is a POV? Person of Value? Previous owner of the vehicle?
I must admit, that comment about identifying trans people by bone structure made me laugh out loud. I'm a cis woman that gets misgendered frequently because I have short hair and an androgynous face. Meanwhile, my transgender best friend passes completely as a woman when out and about and she's not even begun her medical transition yet. People frequently think we're a heterosexual couple and that I'm the man! But by your logic I suppose I must actually be transgender and she must be cis - I'll go and tell her about our mix up, I'm sure she'll be thrilled to take the anatomy that fell off me when you revoked my woman status!
In reality I must add that all trans people are different. Quite simply put, in the erection scenario, that depends entirely on whether she's had sex reassignment surgery or not, whether she's on HRT which can curb erections, and whether she's actually physically attracted to you (not everyone will be you know). I wonder, does someone who has had all of the surgeries including facial feminisation surgery still need to disclose their medical history, and why?
I once again find myself agreeing with @pmvines . People have preferences, and I've not seen a single person here try to argue that it's not ok to be able to choose who you cuddle. I've been very honest on here about my age preferences and why I have them. But at the same time this argument also seems to be splitting off into a few different topics such as are trans women 'real' women, do they have some bizarre motive to trap male cuddlers, etc. There seems to be no common regard to the feelings of these people, who are indeed people, and who I sincerely doubt want to go anywhere near a person who is so interested in their genitals on a platonic cuddling site.
@Lovelight Of course - I'm flattered.
I agree with @pmvines and a lot of you.
@natural_oceans
First again. I understand your concern, you don't want to cuddle with someone that has a certain part there. I understand it's also a comfort and a preference to cuddle either a Cis-woman or (someone who has done the transition, possibly?).
However, myself and others would like you to take a moment to understand the struggles of trans-people and their need to have some rapport before they can disclose. Some have reached the strength and comfort to be open off the bat. Some haven't yet, maybe they'll never and will always need some patience to feel comfortable.
If we view each other as a person first and not as this, this and that, I think we will have a better chance reaching our goal to becoming more understanding and comfortable with each other. Thus we'll be better able to be ourselves, even if sometimes it takes some time.
If you are unsure, for example you can say while chatting: "I am just wondering if you are a Cis-woman, and I respect if you don't wish to disclose that either way." Then based on their response go from there. If you are either still not convinced or are uncomfortable, then simply discontinue interaction. Best to give them some closure out of respect: Example:
"Alright, thanks for speaking with me. Hope you find a mutual match."
What you said:
"how do you spot trans people who have misidentified themselves on their profiles?"
"By the bone structure of they're face."
I find this to be FAR from the truth. There women who have Androgenous look. I don't really like to use the term as it can mean a range of complex lala stuff. Though basically they are ciswomen who either most times are mistaken for men or look confusing due to how their facial features are. As a person who looks confusing myself, I can understand the struggles people who don't look Cis-persons face, likewise people who don't look their age whether they look older or younger.
So it's important to think of things from more perspectives. I hope these and our feed-back help. Feel free share your thoughts since hearing our feed-back, or questions.
@UKGuy pov means point of view
Google is your friend?
@snughugs
The struggle is real! I used to get asked if I am a man on datin' sites while ago. Sometimes some men went out their way that just because we "liked" on (each other). Saying like: "Man I don't swing that way, take that blank shiz out of here." I had a few cases of these. Also some I video chat with and they never spoke to me again, most likely because they thought I am either a man, or trans-person, due to my ambiguous appearance.
All because I look confusing even though I am a Cis-woman. And just seeing a picture, not taking the time to see me as a person first, sitting down talking, and all in all just respecting me as a person. While each trans-person is different and their struggles are unique as they are. I thought for sometime damn I somewhat can understand what some trans-people go through. Though at the end of the day, I love myself, and looking like a man, a woman, whatever is not a shameful thing. It is just how one looks. As much or as little as we might not agree with someone, it is important to have common human respect.
@Lovelight I’m already fairly educated on this topic as a member of the LGBT community. My best friend and one of my cousins are both trans women. I’ve never seen them as anything other than female.
@pmvines - TFTI
YW LOL
Just to give everyone a heads up im actually transracial, if you dont like my ethnicity its your fault
-dont hate me for my opinion-
@Navyman1010
In my opinion, hating you and or your opinion would be a waste of stuff. lol.
@Lovelight " would be a waste of stuff" nice way of articulating your feelings
I have trans friends and it wouldn't matter to me in terms of a cuddle partner, I've already cuddled with trans people.
I think being upfront about it on one's profile is probably a good idea, otherwise it could lead to an awkward and even threatening situation.
@Babichev you've made the most sense lol
It doesn’t make much sense to me? Why should someone’s genitals matter if the cuddling is platonic? ? Edit: If a transwoman is passing, would you even care or question it? I’ve met trans women who had be on hormones for years and because I’m not having sex with them, would have never known they were trans until they told me.
I figure it's the secondary characteristics that matter most in platonic cuddling. Where are the curves, how pillowy's the front, how much muscle can be expected and where...? A body type thing, not a genital thing—but the genitals do tend to make a difference to the body type, so if you know that then you have a good idea what the basic body type is.
So when I say on my profile that my body type's female, what I mean is that the hips and chest and bottom stick out a bit. That's nice to know if you're thinking about cuddling with me, right?
If I ever manage to pull together enough money for top surgery, I might switch to describing my body type as "agender, female leaning," to give people an idea of what to expect (since I'm not planning on altering the hips or bottom). If I started HRT (which I don't intend to because I don't want a male body any more than I want a female one—Edit: well, maybe a little bit more) and it made my body look completely male except for the between-the-legs bit, I'd probably describe my body type as male.
Cuddling with a woman who might get an accidental erection is just as awkward as cuddling with a man who might get one, so I can understand why people would want to know if that was a possibility, but otherwise I think it's secondary sexual characteristics that matter, not genitals.
I think if you are concerned about something such as you mentioned, you can ask about it specifically. If you care about secondary sexual characteristics, then I would probably not be a good match as I’m very flat chested, even though I am a cis woman. If you cared about my rear or hips you’d probably be fine with it...but if that’s why you wanted to cuddle with me, I wouldn’t. I think you can have preferences but too many specifics will only hurt you. I think in an ideal world, especially a world of platonic cuddling, someone’s assigned gender at birth wouldn’t matter.
The majority of us don’t care if they are trans, they are still human and they want the same as everyone here, they want human touch, a caring soul and to be held and hold another human being. They want to share stories, talk, laugh, etc just like the rest of us.
It isn’t us I am worried about it’s those that don’t agree with their decision to change that would hurt them. That’s my only concern.
I am only stating this because I have heard it, so please don’t criticize me for mentioning it. I have heard that trans are very open to discussing it because of the stigma. Discuss their feelings, the process, etc to make people aware of the process and in turn help people understand and accept them for who they are and see they are no different than us.
I would most definitely cuddle with a trans. I want them to know I am as comfortable cuddling with them as they are me.
'Platonic' means non-sexual but that does not imply that one's sex is not a consideration. Most heterosexual men are not socialized to be intimate and affectionate with members of their own sex. That seems to be something that far more women are socialized to be comfortable with. I'm surprised that so many women seem to be unaware or unaccepting of this fact.
Part of this discussion relates to a trans-persons right to self-identify as whichever gender they wish, and for that to be right to be validated by not having to publicise it in any way to potential cuddle partner on this website. The arguments in support of this include that this website is for platonic cuddling only, and therefore, it is irrelevant what genitals might be hiding under there. Fear of the consequences of disclosing trans status (being beaten up on discovery) is further cited as reason for hiding that a person is trans.
However, one way to view this argument is to consider it by any of the other search criteria on the website.
For example, if a man who is 75 years old decided to self-identify as 35 year old, would their female cuddle partner have grounds for complaint when he turned up for their first meeting and she had hoped to meet a guy between 30 and 40 years old? Or would he be justified in saying that it is his right to self identify, and that the fake picture he sent is simply part of his new "identity"?
Would a black woman who limited her search preferences for other black women to cuddle have cause for complaint, when a white woman or man arrived for a meet, who has self identified as black and female?
If not, The search criteria at this website could themselves be considered ageist, racist, sexist, and so on, but they are there for a reason.
So, if I submit a search for a straight female to cuddle, I would be a bit annoyed to find any other variety of sexual or gender orientation turned up, on the basis they had "self identified" to meet my search criteria. The selection of "other" is there, alongside man and woman (as options for a cuddle partner you are seeking). If trans people are unhappy with that category, perhaps that category needs exploding into the various options.
Otherwise, if we make a special case for the LGBTQI community only, then it makes sense to remove ALL criteria from the search options, based on the same argument. That is, remove the ability to search for anything in the search criteria related to your preferences, and only be permitted to search for a generic "cuddle partner".
You will gather that the heartland of my argument is that we should all be open and honest on this website, as that underpins the trust we need to engender (sorry about the pun) as cuddlers meet each other. There is some degree of risk in each of our encounters, and the more we advocate openness and honesty, the better it is for the entire community of cuddlers.
Thoughts?
Forgive me if I am wrong but I don’t think it’s that difficult to tell if someone dresses as a female is actually male. Just because they self identify as a female does not make them female. Lying about their age or color is catfishing and once you show up to cuddle and she it’s not who you thought you have the right to decide whether or not to do the cuddle. If you think you are meeting a female because of a picture you were sent and that individual shows up and you can clearly tell is a male are you still going to cuddle? Honestly I don’t know what I would do but what I do know is if any of them would have been honest about it there wouldn’t be an issue. Take out the possibility of them being hurt, I’m sorry but I would still want to know.
@garysmith please clarify if you would. At the beginning you stated they can self identify as any gender they wish and for that to be validated by not having to publicize it to any possible cuddle partner. I hope I am correct so far here......so it’s irrelevant what genitals they have which is reason for hiding they are trans? But at the end you state that in this cuddle community we should all be open and honest which will provide for a much better community for all of us. Is claiming to be female when they are a male being honest. I am asking as a sincere question bc I don’t know. This is a touchy subject that personally when meeting would bring it up because as the Cuddler I feel I am entitled to know. It won’t change the session I would still cuddle but I just feel I should be told. God, I don’t know. I start putting all this and then think shit what would I do? Going through the decision to even be a trans must be hell to begin with and I don’t want them to feel less accepted because I am sure the world already makes them feel that and in the Cuddle world they feel like they can be themselves. It’s hard enough functioning in society just being the sex you were born being and having to change that and identify as the opposite sex to feel comfortable in their own skin must be pure hell. Ok now I’m confused!
I think arguments such as 'trans age' are just an unsuccessful attempt at straw manning to be honest. Primarily because a 75 year old will never be able to look 25 and thus there is no chance of the person you meet still meeting the requirements you have. Particularly with a fully transitioned person there is often no difference between them and a cis person during cuddling alone. Trust me, most of you will have met a trans person and not even realized. I think as cis people we fall under this false pretense that we're somehow able to detect every trans person we meet, and that comes from the assumption that all trans people are the same.
I think we rely too heavily on gender markers in this society to tell us who a person is and what we can expect. I've been astonished in the difference that simply cutting my hair has made to how people perceive and react to me. It's intriguing to watch the way that strangers interact with me now that a good chunk of them assume that I'm either male, or a butch lesbian, or what have you. My face hasn't changed, my body hasn't changed, and I do still wear women's clothing, do my makeup, etc. It fascinates me that something as simple as hair can be the difference between going to the supermarket undisturbed and having me and my partner questioned on whether we are a gay couple whilst we're out with our daughter. Although I do enjoy the embarrassment of bigoted middle aged women when they demand to know how we got our daughter then hear my distinctly feminine voice tell them that I pushed her out!
I also think it's worth noting that no two cis people are the same either. Take me, for example. I have PCOS and part of that is that I have the testosterone levels of the average cis man. This gives me male muscle structures (but I still workout, because my health comes before whether a man wants to be with me or not) and body hair growth (which I do choose to deal with). I am also incredibly tall like the men in my family. However, I also have a distinct pear shape, with large hips and a small waist. I have short hair, but I also love to paint my nails. My face is truly androgynous, not leaning more one way than the other unless I use makeup. I confuse a lot of people. And people assume that's me making a deliberate statement about identity or whatever rather than just being my natural, God given self.
Do I think that someone should cuddle me anyway, even if I'm not their preference? Of course not! Aside from respecting their choices I wouldn't want to be that close to someone who found me distasteful anyway. But I also wouldn't take too kindly to that same person saying that I'm basically a man, or that I should try harder to look like a woman, or that I should just transition because it'd work better for me, etc. And I think that's where I really draw the line. People have the right to refuse me for any reason and I accept that, but equally I wouldn't put up with someone deciding to question who I am or try to coach me into being someone else. And I think that's really what I'm getting at in this debate. A simple 'no thankyou, we're not compatible' is enough. I don't see why it should then turn into some sort of investigation.
@CreativeCuddles hi, sorry, perhaps I could have stated it more clearly. The opening bit of my post was laying out the arguments that I have seen put forward on this website for hiding info. I don't agree with these, and hoped to sum up by saying it's better to be honest and open. After all, if a person is trans, be proud and say so, just like those who are content to identify in the more old fashioned definitions of man or woman.
The issue here, perhaps, is that when these latter two are used, the person searching is likely to assume that the terms man or woman indicate biologically. Perhaps this is unfair on the trans community.
I'd be happy for my profile to indicate that I am biologically male and that I identity as a straight male, while a trans person might state biologically female, but self identify as straight male.
Controversial perhaps, but straightforward and honest, and celebrating individually who we are.
Thank you! ?
Sorry for the lack of clarity.
I don't intent to single you out, it was for anyone who wants to learn more about. Though we can always do well for ourselves by revising, refreshing and staying up to date. ?
@garysmith Thank You! I believe I saw a FB page or link to help understand the topic at hand. I am going to check it out.
@garysmith “I'd be happy for my profile to indicate that I am biologically male and that I identity as a straight male, while a trans person might state biologically female, but self identify as straight male.”
I think this is where the issue is. Being out as trans is dangerous. Being out at a cis-male is not. So while you might not have any problem being yourself, others might have a hard time with it. Not everyone is proud, thats why pride is such a huge thing the lgbtqia community. (As a side not, I’ve been outted without my permission, and it feels terrible.) Why should anyone have to out themselves? If you see a picture of a woman, and she self identifies as a woman, wouldn’t you think that she is a woman? Maybe the issue is how passing a person is.