Females and men
I agree with @Morpheus. Definitely took notes and @TxTom you're not dismissive in my eyes. And whether you were or not to others, here we all are ♡ I'm grateful we're all able to be adults about differences
In a world where you can be anything, be kind.
Women as well as the females from my home planet, I believe in inclusivity 🛸
@Morpheus what?! You’re welcome to share how something feels from your perspective, but don’t present it as a lesson for pros. You’re not upset that expectations weren’t met; it’s that your perception of being seen or prioritized wasn’t reflected back the way you expected. Emotional labor, boundaries and communication choices are individually determined, not defined by client guidance or forum consensus.
@BellaAine
Based on your previous comment, you are not a pro that fishes for business and so my lesson comment was not for you.
@kendrayk74 Thank you for your dissertation, but I don't need a text analysis of my comments. I'm quite aware of what I say. Nevertheless, I'll read whatever analysis you post.
@pnwpetrichor Surely you could find a more serious source than that Jezebel article. I'll wait.
@SpicyNSweet
TxTom if you aren't a woman, perhaps you could listen to the viewpoints of other women, and gain insight into a world you'll never understand.
@SpicyNSweet, you're right, I'm not a woman, nor could I ever be. And, yes, I do listen to women.
But do other women have insight into that world?
Because a very brief search of the discussion forums will reveal many women here whom use the words woman and female interchangeably, including yourself, here:
It blows my mind when men attempt to downplay the very real risks women face.... If a female cuddler, professional or or not, suddenly books it during a session, perhaps there's a reason!!
Thank you, @Cuddlesofcuddle, you're the best!
She used them properly, not interchangeably. She used female as a descriptor of cuddler. Female is used as a descriptor os the subject, woman is used as the subject. Example, I've noticed there are more female employees in the company as more women have entered the workforce. The recent usage of women and female interchangeably is not equally applied to men and male. It is done my many in the manosphere and by the redpill podcast bros as a way to minimize women.
@Pasquia and @BellaAine Exactly girls ! 💯
The recent usage of women and female interchangeably is not equally applied to men and male
This. Thank you, @Pasquia
Like the article shared above pointed out — the most common usage of male/female is as an adjective. Therefore, using them as nouns comes across as reducing people to labels dictated by their sex traits; namely their genitals, because that is how we tend to determine the sex of a human at birth — by the outward appearance of their genitals. We apply those labels of male and female at birth, and then people are stuck with them, even if the original assumption was incorrect.
If this reducing down to an adjective were applied equally to men as to women, it'd be less of an issue. But as you can see even in this discussion — people will tend to refer to "men" and then "females" or "girls." It's a hopefully unintentional, subconscious word choice that others women by dehumanizing or infantilizing them — especially when complaining or making disparaging remarks. If you want to use the word female and not get backlash, use it as an adjective and/or when also using the term male.
This discussion has been had many times in these forums over the years, because despite what the majority of women have said here, people keep insisting on using the term in an offensive way. If you know women who don't mind being called "females" — great! Use that term around them. But if you're speaking publicly to a group where you either don't know their preferences, or actively know they dislike it, the respectful thing would be to use the more accurate and widely accepted term.
But as we've seen time and again here in the forums, the people who insist on the appearance of manners instead of actual mutual respect are never going to concede that they might be the ones causing a problem. 🤷🏻♀️
As far as the female thing. Others and the article said it perfectly. I’ll add one more point. Female/Male can refer to anything in the animal kingdom that reproduces using sexed genitals. So calling someone a female as a noun can also have a dehumanizing connotation.
So yes, I have used the word female. I do not use it interchangeably with the word woman.
I’m with @TxTom
@Pasquia exactly, thank you
@Morpheus You started this thread performing civility and ended it dismissing one of the most careful thinkers in the room.
@TxTom Calling it a dissertation like that’s an insult isn’t the flex you think it is. Dissertations require thought, evidence, and the ability to consider a perspective that isn’t your own. Attacking the format of someone’s information because you can’t engage with the content, isn’t much of a response.
You don’t have to read or take in the reflections, but ignoring the reflections and experiences of others just because you disagree (which just looks to the room like the content made you uncomfortable), undoes any claim that you take others’ opinions or the impact of your words into consideration.
Overall not a great look.
I was polite in my comment but I also have the right to state what I’m not a fan of.
Hello,
I have found it’s not a manners issue, but miscommunications due to the limiting nature of texts.
For example, there was a polite person that asked if I was available at a certain day. I said unfortunately due to my other job, life stuff that’s happening currently and just how busy I am, most things in my life must be planned a few days to a week in advanced. I let them know that. They said that they cannot plan that far in advanced due to the nature of their job (I did not ask but I assume they have an on-call job like a nurse that covers the shift of others that call in sick). I said that’s okay and I hope they are able to find someone that can accommodate to their schedule, believing after these exchanges that it could be concluded that we were not a good match to meet.
However, they messaged me and seemed to take it as me not wanting to cuddle them and that I lost interest. Which was not the case at all. It’s just that we’re different people with very different lives, and that it sounded like based on that, that finding a time when we could cuddle would be extremely difficult / impossible. It was not a slight towards them. Nor was it meant to be rude. I just didn’t want to waste their time. But they took it as me being dismissive.
I am sure this discussion would not be misinterpreted if we were talking on the phone or through video call. So… that’s also something to consider when it comes to manners, I think. Is it really rudeness? Or is it just that we’re missing other aspects of communication that just don’t translate well to text?
@Morpheus I’m glad you see @kendrayk74 has great things to say, I’m assuming then that you can see how what he’s saying is well thought out and accurate.
Moving on from you agreeing with him… equating you being uncomfortable with your public forum posts being analyzed, to entire populations of people being referred to in a way that, at best, reduces them to the biology of their sex parts and, at worst, dehumanizes them, just are not the same thing.
And yes. You have a right to have a response to how it was worded. But that’s not what you did. You seconded an attempt to dismiss its value because of its format thereby dismissing the content instead of engaging with it.
This is an unconscious deflection or an intentional misdirect. Either way, it’s still not a great look.
@mauvefox I'm sorry you find so much of what I say to be offensive or insulting. But at this point, I really think you're just trying to find a reason to be upset.
A dissertation is "an in-depth, research-based document." Your misinterpretation of my reference to kendrayk74's comment as an insult is quite a stretch. I also said that I would read any analysis kendrayk74 posted. That's not much of an insult.
You also said,
Female/Male can refer to anything in the animal kingdom that reproduces using sexed genitals. So calling someone a female as a noun can also have a dehumanizing connotation.
So, we're you dehumanizing women when you used the word female as a noun here?
Then some females who were here as enthusiasts switched over to being pro...
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/forum/discussion/25556/is-it-a-thing/p1#Comment_383378
No, I don't think you were. I think it was just that whole interchangeable thing again.
And I'd like to add, being in disagreement with someone is not being dismissive of them. I'm not dismissive of women.
I revere them.
I'm in awe of women's ability to bring life into this world. That is a uniquely female ability, and understanding that does not reduce her to some inventory of body parts.
That accusation is, in itself, insulting.
@TxTom
Ah well. You caught me. You did some real work there to recall that, go searching for it, quote it, and even link it. To point out what exactly? That I’m imperfect? That my auto correct likely deleted a word while i was typing quickly on my phone and editing my reply? After all, I’m just hanging out on my couch while my kids watch cartoons before bed. Well I’ll help you along with that. I’m extremely imperfect. And I don’t expect perfection from others.
But it does seem as though you’re now doing the very thing you just accused me of. I honestly don’t even recall disagreeing with you specifically on anything. I’m not saying it didn’t happen. You’re just not on my mind in any kind of way.
I’m fascinated that you think I’m upset, offended, or insulted. I’m actually none of those things. I can make a case for the respectful engagement with a group of people I belong to without getting emotional about it.
What I do know is men have been calling women emotional and upset for centuries as a way to undermine their thoughts and opinions.
Additionally, when a word that can dehumanize a group is used by a member of that group, it doesn’t carry the same intention as when an individual outside the group uses it. So even if it had been intentional on my part, which it was not, it would never carry the same weight.
Women have told you how it makes them feel. Maybe one or two said they didn’t care. But using them as a reason to tell the other women they are wrong is a pattern worth some self reflection.
Also, reverence isn’t respect. You can revere something or even a group of people, and still not respect or listen to them. We don’t need your awe, we would like to be heard.
Additionally not all women can or choose to carry life. Was this really the only thing you could identify about women that you revere. Something that again ties back to their sex traits.
I thought it was an odd choice as well. Kind of like picking out the one thing to admire about men is their biological ability to spread baby fertilizer.
Actually, thank you for pointing out the error in my post. Even though my use of it as a woman would not carry the same weight or intent, I certainly would not want to cause upset to anyone. Thankfully I was within the window that I could correct it, with transparency of course, so it can read with my actual intent.
Which, for what it’s worth, is what you do when someone points out a mistake. You make the repair and reflect on how not to repeat it.
@mauvefox We're all imperfect.
...not all women can or choose to carry life.
That's true.
Was this really the only thing you could identify about women that you revere.
No, it's not.
... when someone points out a mistake. You make the repair and reflect on how not to repeat it.
I agree. I do the same thing. And I'm glad our dialogue remained civil. I appreciate civil discourse. So, thank you.
@thefuncartel
Exactly 😂 can you even revere something about an entire group defined by something they have no control over?
In this case, one would be in awe of an over generalized idea about women, which is more objectifying and discriminatory than respectful. 🤷♀️
But I sure am looking forward to the repairs and amends. ☺️
Hi @Morpheus, @txtom, @mauvefox, @SpicyNSweet, @pnwpetrichor and anyone whom I've missed that was engaging with anything I've written so far !
Thanks for your feedback. My intent isn't to offend you (or anyone) when I offer an analysis of a text (post). We're all writing to a public forum, and text, even with emojis, has its limits. I find it necessary to read between the lines. I find it useful to me to articulate how or what I'm reading something, so that my own contributions make sense. And, so that if I'm reading something incorrectly, or other than it was intended, we can address that if we want to.
Also, since it's a public forum, I'm not writing only for the person whose text I'm responding to, I'm also writing for anyone else who chooses to read my response. I want anyone who is reading to understand what I'm seeing and where I'm coming from. And I usually limit my writing to where I think it contributes something (I've discarded many drafts where I've decided I'm not adding any value to a conversation, or where I realize that I have probably misread something, or where I feel I'd just be doing a gotcha!).
And I wholeheartedly agree that it's possible to disagree with someone without being dismissive of them or their viewpoint. It's also possible to come off as dismissive whether that is, or isn't, our intent. This is exactly why I think taking time to read and analyze a text is important, because if something gets our ire up we're more likely to misinterpret and make mistakes. And if I'm writing in a way that gets other people riled up, that's useful information to me. It makes me go back and look at how I wrote what I wrote, and to see if there was a different way I'd like to do it in the future and still accomplish my goal in writing.
I hope that we agree that our beliefs, opinions, and words can have consequences in the lives of real people, and so choosing our words intentionally is working towards understanding and a better world.
I actually understand what you mean 😭 because I can see how that would feel really underwhelming on the receiving end. Like dang… do you miss me or do you miss my money? Especially after having what felt like a genuinely good interaction with someone.
And honestly I think responding in a way that at least acknowledges the message is the bare minimum. Even something simple and kind goes a long way.
At the same time, this thread made me curious how the people I’ve cuddled with in the past feel too. I’ve genuinely enjoyed a lot of my cuddle sessions and if we ever talk in passing again, I usually do say how much I enjoyed our time because I mean it 😭
So now I’m sitting here wondering where the line is between “fishing for business” and just naturally reaching out to somebody you genuinely liked spending time with.
I think that’s probably the awkward gray area with cuddling sometimes because real comfort and connection can exist… while it also still being a service.
@mauvefox Well it is the go-to reverence for those who find it too taxing to mention non-biological traits.
I revere women for their seemingly endless reservoir of optimism regarding men based on the slimmest evidence of progress. I can’t say I have never botched woman/female but I fully understand the logic and history of the word usage. Language and how it is used is an obvious system of power. To continually argue against the preferred terms marginalized groups desire is a rejection of empathy, understanding, and compromise. Which is sad, because the effort to adapt requires so little effort and a modicum of practice for it to become second nature.
@TheFunCartel quit taking breaks on the forums. The community needs you more than ever ! 👍🙏🏼. It gets kinda goofy on here at times and you got the words!
Also, since it's a public forum, I'm not writing only for the person whose text I'm responding to, I'm also writing for anyone else who chooses to read my response. I want anyone who is reading to understand what I'm seeing and where I'm coming from.
@kendrayk74 well said, and same! You and I can keep right on writing our essays, because the people who they're intended for will get it, and for those who aren't wouldn't get it anyway 🤷🏻♀️
@TheFunCartel You along with @OhioMike and @kendrayk74 along with several other men who have empathy and understanding as a primary skill set, keep the hope coming.
And like I said, I’m never expecting perfection, just an opportunity to be heard (without being told I’m a hysterical and dramatic female 😉)
Unfortunately, manners and common sense are siblings and were both killed slowly over the last few decades. Their cousins, empathy and honor, have also slowly died over the same time period.