You Can See Everything

supertouchsupertouch
in General

I'll keep this general to avoid any spoilers. I know the broad outlines of the Elizabeth Holmes story, but I didn't do the deep dive. Didn't read the book, see the series, or watch any docs. I came out of this mostly thinking she's on the spectrum and has been manipulated. My friend, who is VERY steeped in details, was shocked, like I watched a completely different movie than her, and was being gullible. Which, yeah, guilty. If you saw it, thoughts? In any case, Nathan Fielder is a genius.

Comments

  • VibeSeekerVibeSeeker

    Who is that

  • pinky63pinky63

    I don't know who they are

  • supertouchsupertouch

    Are you all for real right now?

  • wetherman67wetherman67

    Is that Katie's sister?

  • IronicMaidenIronicMaiden

    I thought I knew what you were talking about, then realized I was thinking of Enola Holmes. I seem to recall liking it, but I don't remember it all that well.

    If no one knows what you're talking about, explaining can be helpful. If you're worried about spoilers, then spoiler the specifics.

  • 7gem7gem

    Its all about the Theranos scam

  • moviedateguymoviedateguy

    Finally a forum topic of interest to me!
    spoiler alert for the entire Elizabeth Holmes/Theranos
    “I knew she was a fake because she was in Honors Chemistry not AP” - Holmes’ high school classmate.
    ——————-
    The documentary deals with the themes of truth and fiction.

    Why would they allow Nathan Fielder, whose first TV show was about bogus business fronts (e.g. “Dumb Starbucks”), film her last days before prison?

    Her insistence on the phrasing of her product’s capabilities can be read as on the spectrum or narcissism, or her brand of manipulation.

    The NYT quote credited to her was never proven or disproven by either side.

    Her father, who worked at Enron(!), says everything changed after her rape (after which she left Stanford and started Theranos).

    So, when you see her gazing back at you with intense eye contact (which someone mentions is her way of flirting) you have no idea if she is being honest or manipulating you. Or acting as a tool of her romantic/business partner’s manipulation (she has a track record).

    Go see the movie and see for yourself (truth and fiction are explored in other ways I won’t spoil here) especially if you are a Nathan Fielder fan.

  • supertouchsupertouch

    Every time he tried to talk to her dad they got interrupted. Her parents facial expressions and body language said a lot.

  • TichantoPTichantoP

    Some described the movie as “Imagine if Nixon’s final days is office were documented by Andy Kaufman…” and I think that’s a very apt comparison in the most complimentary way.

    I saw it last night as I’m still trying to wrap my head around it and untangle what it all means.

    It does a great job of exploring how language and perception and bias and preconception can change what we believe and how we respond to things.

    I think Nathan Fielder is an incredible talent. Watching this makes me want to go back and re-watch all of NFY and The Rehearsal.

  • supertouchsupertouch

    Season 2 of the Rehearsal should be taught in universities.

  • Suzie_QSuzie_Q

    I can't watch it, I got second hand embarrassment just from the trailer. I'm just going to read spoilers about it on reddit.

  • supertouchsupertouch

    @Suzie_Q are you the type who can't watch The Office and cringe comedy?

  • JourneyRoadJourneyRoad

    just saw this at theaters, I thought it was a really good movie, maybe best movie I've seen this year at a movie theater (I think I’ve seen 5 this year). the movie was more nuanced and sympathetic in portrayal of the Elizabeth Holmes than the trailers (which portray her like a crazy lizard manipulator), including the specific scenes used in the trailers were presented differently. the trailers had to do what’s necessary to get you in the theater and it worked.
    the movie is a documentary mixed with weird critique of reality TV/sensationalized media (including the Hulu TV show that depicted her).
    The current boyfriend/partner (father of her children) Billy is a really interesting and strong character in the film whose existence helps raise an interesting question/dilemma in the film. the great meta discussion of truth vs reality, I won’t dwell on it, . there’s a point the movie the director made a decision to include something and I was sort of like “eh.. why do that”…but it paid off, it made sense in the end.

    Like the OP, I hadn’t really followed her story deeply. all I knew she was convicted for misleading investors. I hadn’t even known what the medical product or service was. I watched a few short news clips before seeing the film.

    she wants people to think she was manipulated by her ex-boyfriend and that she’s on the spectrum or thinks differently and that’s why she’s being mistreated/persecuted. the movie does make you question this possibilities.In the end, I think Elizabeth Holmes is an ambitious and skilled manipulator. she wants to create a mythology of her product and what she offers society. she wanted to believe in something that wasn’t practical and ran with it. she thought she can bend reality, and I think she does a really good job trying to bend reality in this film. I don’t think that’s likely you get into Stanford and to the pinnacle of success she had and act like a “hostage”. her demeanor, portrayal will make you wonder.

    Looking forward to the Theranos 2.0 IPO, let’s get ready Wall Street. or maybe not.

  • moviedateguymoviedateguy

    Can we spoil the movie now?
    After a bit of background reading, you can find out she’s a grifter and the movie shows she’s running it back a second time from prison camp with her partner.
    Amazing second half of the movie when they start scripted reenactments and try to interpret whether Elizabeth Holmes means what she says. Whatever that means in a post-truth world.
    Btw, would you cuddle an Elizabeth Holmes look-alike dressed up in her black beatnik outfit, staring intently with giant eyes, giving you inspiration phrases in a lowered voice?
    Also, from an interview with the directors, it was her partner’s idea to film him showering after his work out, haha.

  • ChillCuddler7ChillCuddler7
    edited October 26

    Nvm

  • ChillCuddler7ChillCuddler7
    edited October 26

    Nvm

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    This documentary is the movie “Melania” wanted to be. A narcissistic documentary that actually made money.

  • AmortentiaAmortentia

    Oh my goodness. I was so lost at first along with everyone else. Luckily someone said Theranos and then I was like oh yeah Elizabeth lol. Well, I can't say I am a fan of her. She still willingly did what she did so that makes her guilty. No one held a gun to her head to cause her to do this scam. I am just shocked it went on as long as it had. And with that being so she had many chances to pull back and fix things. But she didn't until it all blew over. In the end she ruined her life the most which could have been avoidable.

  • moviedateguymoviedateguy

    @Amortentia The more I read about it, people must have known she was a fraud for this to keep going for so long. They just went along and supported it as Theranos kept growing and the money flowing. She has some sort of way to manipulate people which I think the movie tried to investigate, but it’s very weird when someone doesn’t deal with facts.

  • MarkBPhxMarkBPhx

    Like most in this thread, I didn't and still don't know much about the actual events. As a student of media and lover of movies, it was a mess. I definitely questioned several things included in this "documentary" as well as the length. Just shy of 3 hours?! For a documentary. Really?!
    On a human level, I agree that it felt like Elizabeth is either on the spectrum and a savant, or a disgustingly brilliant manipulator who makes clearly troubled choices in romantic partners.

  • abiggerspoonabiggerspoon

    I’m also delving into this story, and recently finished watching The Dropout on Hulu as a precourse to the doc. Looking forward to watching it! They should do Sam Altman next.

  • AmortentiaAmortentia

    @moviedateguy from what I heard many did know she was a fraud from the start. Based on the story I heard scientists would be like no way can she do this in the way that she says she can because it is simply not possible. And so people who were smart stayed away from the company as well as those who did their research first. Her clients as I heard were ones who didn't really know better or were not good at researching or cared to investigate and just took it at face value at first which is why it went so long before the red flags started showing more for even them. And I believe the clients were mainly rich so had the money and were not strict on spending and ran to try this cool new thing unlike poorer people who would take in concideration on anything they buy if they really need it or if it was worth it for them.

  • xandriarainxandriarain
    edited October 28

    Given how much power Billy had over her, I walked away questioning what her relationship with Sunny was like. Perhaps she was an easily controlled partner in relationships.

  • moviedateguymoviedateguy

    @Amortentia yeah, the list of rich folks Theranos defrauded is filled with folks that likely deserved it.
    @xandriarain Holmes seems to know how to control men as well. There’s a reason she was the face of Theranos.

    C’mon now, everybody who thinks she doesn’t understand “Who’s on first”, she’s ACTING like she doesn’t understand.
    You’ve never caught somebody in a lie before?

  • JohnR1972JohnR1972

    I worked in medical device quality management for nearly a decade. I never believed in what she was selling. I saw her as a total fraud the whole time she was lying to investors and getting her photo on the cover of magazines. As much money as she obtained by fraud (stole in my opinion) she should still he in prison along with her board of directors who gave credibility to the lies.

  • softopensoftopen

    Interesting film. It built in a way I wasn't expecting and because of that it didn't feel so long. It's more of an exploration of Nathan than I expected... Still sitting with some things...