Agreed, just not as harshly
Damn, so much to respond to. @PeopleLikeUs you sound foolish when you respond and accuse me of things I didn’t say. Thanks @BashfulLoner again for having my back and looking at what I actually said. I never said anything about wasting time or money. I’m amused that you actually wrote “overweight woman.” You’re hilarious. You are mailing this whole thing about being judgemental and it’s not. I never said I was disappointed in their. You are just assuming that and reacting. I’m not going to explain it again because I already did multiple times and it clear most people get it.
@CreativeCuddles thanks!
I think there is an assumption being made. I say “attractive” and minds seem to go sexual. I didn’t say or allude to anything that @BashfulLoner you nailed it. It might be pretty eyes, a great smile or something else.
@DarrenWalker you are wrong, it is also about the person, however, with is the catalyst to a conversation is seeing something in the person pics that have me interested In finding out more.
@PeopleLikeUs actually,I have met a few non-pros who did not have photos posted. I saw something in the profile and made contact. However, both parties wanted to see photos of one another before meeting. I dont know why you’re reacting so harshly about this. I’m not attacking you or anyone else.
So if, instead of weight or age, I said there is a professional I met that has several photos. When we met, they had a huge Mike Tyson face tattoo that was not in any of their photos. What if I said I think thaey should have a photo posted showing that is how they look now? Does that change things??? Because “weight” and “30lbs” keep coming up, I think some are focusing on the wrong thing.
@DarrenWalker wow. I’m amazed how easily you twist my words. I do t see how you equate pics of a person with cuddle spots. Nice try. The issues has nothing to do with “attractiveness” which you seem to be fixated on. It’s a person posted “new” photos to their page that are 5 years old. It’s not attractive, weight, age or anything else. It’s about having the character to portray yourself honestly.
You say female objectification...sexually. I’m F-ing offended that you would go there. It’s disgusting that you take me thinking some has pretty eyes or a nice smile and deciding to message them and jump that to sexually objectification. You should be ashamed of yourself.
btw Fat shaming is bigotry.
Cuddlers i think you need to be nice, sleep on it.
@DarrenWalker "You mean it doesn't start with seeing the stuff they say in the forums and thinking that they're a really cool person? Wow, I've been experiencing cuddle attraction all wrong."
My thoughts exactly.
The people I would most love to meet and cuddle with absolutely are some of the people who participate in the forums, and I have no idea what most of them look like. Even if they have a photo up, it's usually too small for me to really see what they look like. It's how they come across as a person that really interests me. Caring, understanding, respectful . . . those are the qualities I'm most interested in.
My photos are often a few years old because I don't like having my picture taken and I seldom have photos of myself that I like. I try to make sure that they look reasonably enough like myself that no one is going to be shocked when they see me.
I think it's reasonable to want to know what someone looks like before meeting them and/or before making an appointment with a pro, but I also think the OP makes some wrong general assumptions and I can't help but feel the complaint is coming from a pretty shallow place.
@unforgettable " Im sure there are many guys here, some have responsed, that want to portray themselves as more enlightened or noble to state looks are meaningless. Good for you guys. I dont buy it one bit but good for you."
That's pretty revealing. You assume all other men are the same as you?
"All I brought up was that anyone offering their service as a professional cuddler charging for their time should be honest and accurate with the potential client. However, because it is about age and weight, some have chosen to focus on that."
Well, you did bring up age and weight. And then you protest because we comment on that. That's confusing.
If the pro turned out to be slightly younger looking and a little more slender than their photo depicted, I have a feeling that OP would be complaining about that.
"Oh, she said her body type was average and she was really very athletic looking. She said she was 45 but I swear she looked like she was 30. I'm so disappointed!" no one ever said, ever.
Oh, this looks like being a long response. I think I'll take advantage of the spoiler feature.
First exchange:
unforgettable You are wrong, it is also about the person.
Darren Never said it wasn't also about that; but it's pretty obvious that looks come first for you.
unforgettable The catalyst to a conversation is seeing something in the person's pics that makes me interested in finding out more.
Darren Ahaha. See?
Second exchange:
unforgettable I don't see how you equate pics of a person with cuddle spots.
Darren Pictures of the body you're cuddling—pictures of the place you're cuddling. Both have a tendency to change over time. Both matter less than the actual people involved.
unforgettable The issue has nothing to do with "attractiveness."
Darren Allow me to quote you: "Anyone that is paying someone to cuddle is making a decision based on looks." And again: "Guys are reaching out to a pro because they see a pic and are, in some way, attracted enough to message them."
Personally, I find personalities super attractive. Sometimes it's a viewpoint that makes me want to cuddle somebody. Sometimes it's an especially clever turn of phrase. Sometimes it's just really good grammar. Cuddle attraction is a fun thing to experience, and gets activated by all sorts of interesting stuff. For me, it's not seeing a pic that would, in some way, make me attracted enough to send someone a message.
unforgettable You say female objectification...sexually. I’m F-ing offended that you would go there.
Darren You won't even send someone a message unless you see something in a picture of their face and/or body that attracts you enough to make you want to learn whether their personality is also nice enough for a cuddle. Your primary goal is obviously an attractive body. And is there really anything wrong with that? It's just a preference, there doesn't have to be anything sexual about it.
The only reason it looks creepy is because of the sexual objectification of women that the human species has had going on for centuries. Without that, it would be obvious that you're not necessarily a creep.
To illustrate this, consider the women on this site who only consider good-looking men as possible cuddle buddies. There's nothing wrong with it! It only looks wrong when you do it because you're on the wrong side of this age-old objectification problem. A woman can admit that she won't even bother talking to a possible cuddle buddy unless she likes the way his face and body look without people assuming she's got sexual ideas. You're right, it isn't necessarily sexual attraction! There are different types of attraction!
...I can, alas, totally believe that I have to repeat this so often.
Visual attraction is not the same as sexual attraction. Aesthetic attraction is not the same as sexual attraction. Liking the way someone looks is not the same as wanting to have sex with them.
It is okay to make physical appearance your first priority (especially if personality is your second).
Whee. There. Done.
Edit: Well, maybe not quite done. Changed some wording. Added some links. Practically nobody's online at this time anyway, so.... Nobody noticed that, right?
Ok, I’m done with this. I mentioned age and weight because they were legit differences and a small portion of the high and mighty on her want to judge me for being honest rather than a person who is being purposefully deceptive. That’s fine. All I said was pro providers should present themselves accurately. Wow, what an awful, shallow, judgemental thing for me to do.
I have avoided the forums because of the judgement attitude a some of the people here. I have received message of support from people who see what’s going on. That’s why I haven’t messaged anyone based on what they have wrote. Most of what I see written is reprehensible.
@unforgettable I am sorry if you felt I wasn't also supporting your general OP about users on this site being honest, especially the pros. I do support that and Get where you're coming from (no I didn't go back and read my posts). I also think you defended yourself a few too many times about certain issues - supplying some of the troll-bait like food.
@DarrenWalker I often agree with you, I also like to agree to disagree with your points. You come across as someone I would love to got have a drink with, get to know, get into the most ridiculous discussions about the silliest things with and probably become good friends with that would almost never agree just to push the conversation further and deeper (even when we're both actually on the same side, because, why not?!?!). I also read a lot of your comments when directed at other people as being quite harsh and unforgiving at times - it's a style thing - people in NY vs Kansas vs Ca have a very different approach to convos, personal space, driving habits, etc... You did cross the line a couple times in suggesting/calling his position about female/sexual objectification - UF did not do that at all in any posts that I read.
@BashfulLoner you are really a kind, voice of reason, open and looking at things from all sides and have been a great addition to the forums. Thank you for your input and break in the back and forth slashing that tends to happen on here.
I don't think there is anything wrong with @unforgettable 's OP and position on what HE likes for a cuddle, he's doing him, let him be. We are all unique in that. I think if he was to step back and read a lot of @DarrenWalker 's posts, he'd notice that Darren actually supports and accommodates Unforgettable's right to chose cuddles that way and just wants to call him out on it - which wasn't the point, but whatever. You (Darren) also have a style, let's admit you like to push, nudge and wreck havoc on people that will bite on your comments - you are who you are and I get it, AND appreciate you for it most of the time. BUT, damn, sometimes not so hard, really, the point gets lost and the convo devolves into unproductiveness. At least circle back after your "win?" lol.
BACK to the OP - let's respond to what the point and question is (I still haven't learned what "Markdown" is/how it works and don't feel like it at the moment to make a poll, so someone else jump up and do it for me, please and thank you):
Question: Do you think Pros on this side SHOULD make their profiles honest and accurate with content in their words and pictures? Meaning pictures are relatively recent (within a few months or even a year or more if it still looks like them now) show them at their approximate age/weight/height/body shape size/etc... And their words are honest - Not stating "single" if married (if you don't want to say don't post either, but don't lie about it right?!?!), not stating an acceptable age range of 20-85 and rejecting people for being over 55, etc...
Yes, I agree
No, I don't agree
I don't care
@unforgettable I didn't read through all three pages but if you are a paying client you are free to discriminate based upon whatever criteria you see fit. That's your prerogative. Deception in advertising is unacceptable in any other arena so cuddling should be no different. If you have a picture up, and you're advertising your services based in part on your looks, you should look like your picture. Otherwise, if looks really are irrelevant, take the picture down and advertise based solely on your character and personality because it shouldn't matter anyway. Though of course, that is ridiculous. lol
@TouchIsTLC Thanks for being mature enough to look at this topic for the question it raised about pro’s being honest about how they represent themselves on this site and not just cherry pick individual words as fodder to stir the pot or make baseless accusations. I get your troll bait comment. It’s hard to refrain from defending yourself, especially when I'm being accused of objectifying women because I think someone has pretty eyes or a nice smile. I’m still pissed off about that.
I agree about @BashfulLoner being a thoughtful and reasonable person.
I agree about eliminating the photo filters as well. Save that crap for your Instagram account.
@CuddlyGuy2018 Thanks. My originally post was not about disappointment or frustration with the provider. I actually waited a few weeks to post because I had a feeling some people (and had specific ons in mind....and I was proven right) would end up focusing on the wrong things. It was just to raise the questing , should pro providers be obligated to to provide accurate info in their profile and pics that are not all 5 years old?
MOD Edit: It's clear the person to whom you were referring. Avoid personal attacks. The suggested edit is italicized. [SoulcuddlerZ]
((((Hugs and cuddles to all))))
A agree pics should be accurate and also full body pics should be shown. Try to FaceTime them before hand also.
Was the pro's intention to deceive or was it a matter of insecurity, practicality, etc.? I think that's the crux of what OP's question is, and I think we would all agree fairly evenly across the board on that answer as to whether or not a pro (or anyone) should purposefully try to misrepresent themselves. Unfortunately, the wording drew out a different focus for this thread.
So here are my 2 cents as one of the few female posters on this thread (and this will be my only post on the topic; it's really is only my 2 cents to add). Anyone notice that there aren't a lot of females who have regularly posted in the thread, aside from @Catloaf, who has not made any further comments (and I totally understand why)? The points focused on are so triggering because as women, society tells us we are less relevant or useful based on our age and weight and appearance. And any males can think I'm making too big of a deal of this point because they've experienced a degree of that themselves (and this is not to discredit the experiences my male friends have had), but it's a real, real, real pressure and killer of confidence in our society that simply is directed more harshly at women. We've been dismissed and unheard for many superficial reasons and even at times don't feel like we can express feelings that come up naturally in the course of conversation (i.e., this thread and additional points people are adding). That is not a point of saying that makes one answer right or wrong or that I'm implying anything about OP's personal character. It's not an argument, just a perspective you might consider.
Have you heard that stat about online dating? That a woman's biggest fear meeting for an online date is that she will be raped or murdered and a guy's biggest fear is that she will be fat? (No, I don't have a primary source on this story, but at least anecdotally, I believe this based on my own experiences.) And no, my profile picture has never included my face and that decision was made very purposefully. Not as a means of deceit, but as a means of feeling safe to participate on the site.
So, OP, yes, I think that the answer to your actual question is that no one here should be here with the intent to deceive. But I also think it's worth acknowledging that these are sensitive topics for people, enthusiasts and pros alike. If something was done maliciously or dishonestly, give a bad rating, report the person, etc. But like you said, there are no state certification programs for pro cuddling; that means we're all trying to make the concept of a cuddling community work the best we can without necessarily having a structure to fall back on. Let's cut each other a little slack in trying to make this work and be understanding and caring toward each other, even if the system isn't perfect. Isn't that what this community is about anyway? Aren't understanding and caring the reasons were all here?
Thanks for reading. Back to posting on lighter topics now.
Great point @IGuessImHete
@TouchIsTLC: I do like a good debate. Logical exercise is fun! And even a silly argument has the potential to make the arguers realize they've misplaced a serious premise or two. It's like sparring—even though it's not a real fight, it still hones your skills.
I'm also not real good at considering other people's feelings. I try! But I fail way more often than I succeed.
For example, when I said that picking the people you hang out with based first on what they look like is perfectly fine, it just looks wrong when you're a man and your potential buddy is a woman—and the only reason it looks wrong in that situation is because of this social problem that humanity's had going on for ages—when I said that, it didn't even occur to me that anyone would be offended.
That's how bad I am at figuring out how to avoid hurting people's feelings.
I do love a good debate, so if I can get someone to debate with me I'm really happy... but I can't possibly try to upset people when I legitimately don't know what's going to upset them.
I know this sounds ridiculous to all you non-autistic people out there who just know, instinctively, what'll upset others. It's obvious to you, isn't it, you lucky sapients? And I'm compiling data, one of these days I'm sure I'll have it figured out (and then I'll probably use it to pick verbal fights because whee, debate!) but at the moment I really, really don't.
Main points:
・ @unforgettable needs accurate visual information to make the best cuddle decisions for him.
・ Pros, being as they're pros, should remember that people like him exist, and give accurate visual info.
・ And unforgettable doesn't need to justify putting visuals first by insisting that everyone does it that way.
@DarrenWalker I agree, perfectly stated (main points) and I think THIS upfront information about yourself (people don't always read profiles or know that other people operate from very different places) will go a long way in how some of your messages are perceived. I know that I will probably push you MORE for the sparring factor alone from this discussion - knowing with you it's all about the mental gymnastics and that there aren't really going to be any feelings involved, or at least not hurt in the exchange. (not to say I am going to be uncivil or hostile at all as that is not my intent very often, if it is you will know and it will be repugnant (but fun for me) lol)
Your main points are excellent and if @unforgettable stops by to see them, reads them as they are written without reading INTO them (yes, this is something people should do MORE and ask for clarifications as opposed to assuming meaning or intent) he will undoubtedly agree with you based on my understanding of his OP and general premise.
We made it through the storm and back out to calm waters, I for one feel a lot closer and more connected to a number of the posters on this thread - meaning I have a better understanding and appreciation for you as an individual and for a lot of your other posts now that I understand you (each) as the individual(s) that you uniquely are. HUZZAH for discourse!
@DarrenWalker I do not fully buy the you do not realize you offended somebody routine. You seem to understand when a party that you are not arguing with points out the harshness of your approach yet you ignore the same warnings from a person you are attacking. If you are as smart as you believe you are you would acknowledge the taunts, demeaning remarks and yes, pettiness in the execution of your debate. This inherent mean streak oftentimes ruins points that you make. The bottom line is you put a lot of thought into the points you wish to make, but little to no effort into civility.
@DarrenWalker And I do not mean the above as an attack but an observation. You make really good points but sometimes it seems your good points are an excuse to antagonize and ridicule. You can do better. You will find if you use honey when you are right you will seem more right to people. Just something to chew on.
@DarrenWalker you’re not correct on this at all. Allow me to explain.
・ Pros, being as they're pros, should remember that people like him exist, and give accurate visual info. (People like me exist?? WTF?)
No. It is not that I NEED ACCURATE VISUAL INFORMATION TO MAKE THE BEST CUDDLE DECISION.
You keep trying to make this about me. Why don’t you try taking me out of the equation and JUST LOOK at the question being raise.
The point is that, professional providers should be obligated to provide honest and accurate info on this site. Simple Question. Would you agree or disagree? Yes or No?
There is no room for, maybe they feel insecure about their looks or whatever other excuse you wish to speculate. There is no reason for you or anyone else to make excuse for them. It’s a simple yes or no question. Should a professional provider be obligated to provide honest and accurate pictures and information about themself to potential clients.
This was never about me being upset about the person I met. People hear the word weight or age and lose the damn mind over it. I said something because this person didn’t have a single picture that was accurate. That didn’t seem right when most providers do present everything honestly. I mentioned another pro I met that has their age listed as 34. She later said she was actually in her 40s and was lying in an attempt to get more clients. She admitted lying to generate more business. Please @DarrenWalker, now find some way to make this about me and how I’m wrong? Please explain how I am somehow shallow because I brought this up and I’m somehow trying to discriminate based on age.
Can this thread be closed please. As an unproductive space waster at this point.
This has nothing at all to contribute to the community in general any longer and has gone on entirely too long. It's dissolved into picking at threads.
Agreed @PaulaDahla
Pretty much, especially in the last recent posts. I am closing this discussion.
The official position on this is photos should be up-to-date only if it avoids people being tangibly misled based on appearance. Everyone has their own cuddle preferences, whether it's for being with someone skinny, larger, younger or older. That's why this matters.