@calineur I see your point. Reason i feel consent changes things is because what is troublesome to some is not to others. It is up to the persons involved to determine what they are ok with and not ok with. A boundary for some may be that their partner not keep close social friends of the opposite sex, where as others will be completely ok with this, and some may be completely fine with the other person not just having friends, but also sex partners, etc. The one common denominator where boundaries will truly become crossed and the other person is done wrong is when deception is entered into the mix. And i agree completely with cuddling as intended for the purpose of many folks on this site as a form of touch therapy, and is taken is anything more than a platonic activity. However we cannot be dismissive of common sense. If your partner were to come home at night and say oh btw, i met an internet stranger at a motel, changed into sleep shorts, and snuggled, hugged, massaged, and squeezed them under the covers for a few hrs. Oh and i also spent our grocery money on it. Sorry i didnt at least tell you about it first....Yes, this is still within the confines of a platonic activity. However, common sense tells us this is something that partners will not always take kindly to. Hence, the deception re doing it. And deception is dishonesty, and without honesty, there is no consent. Even if platonic and even if in a therapeutic context, a lie is a lie.
Going back to the OP, cus i dont want to keep interjecting personal feelings on the concept of lying to your SO as i dont feel that is really what she was asking for, i say to only do as you are comfortable doing. You are a paid cuddler and where that does imply certain expectations re your services, it does not imply that you are meant to go outside of your comfort zone. Your dilemma is not that of a discriminatory practice. You are not declining anybody based on race, ethnicity, size, sexuality, economic status, etc. This seems to be if i am hearing you correctly more of an ethical dilemma that is of a personal nature for you. Our opinions are of our own, and we will not be able to do anything to change how you feel or what is inside of you. Do what you are comfy with and only that, and good luck to you and welcome to the site!
@Jay222 if the topic was of just therapy I would hope my SO would let me know. Being with someone and not having the ability to be vulnerable with the person just makes you roommates with benefits in my mind. All I ask of my husband is to at least make me a willing participant rather than someone he's got to hide from, but again that's my personal take on the topic.
@pmvines I understand your points and agree regarding deception. But there is a difference in deception (purposeful misleading causing one to believe something that is not true) versus not sharing information. Maybe it is a fine line but there is a difference. The man was not asking the pro to deceive (if I understood it right), but not to share the info of his visit.
For ex - say you were having some personal issues that you would prefer to keep to yourself. Maybe you kept them to yourself because sharing them with your spouse would be detrimental to your marriage? Or maybe you just want to work them out and you sought professional counseling or therapy and did not inform your spouse? Is that deceiving? s getting professional help with a problem without informing your spouse deception?
So it comes down to how one views cuddling and their motive for cuddling. Some may accept it as platonic therapy and others may not.
It is definitely not a clear black and white issue - I think it comes down to the moral compass of each client and understanding the dynamics of their particular situation and relationship with their spouse.
I don't think this should be put on the pro cuddler. It is up to the client to make these determinations. The pro is simply offering a service.
As a non-pro female I will never cuddle with a person in a committed relationship. The definition of platonic is a relationship of affection and intimacy without sex. In talking to female friends over the years I've heard repeatedly that they could accept if their husband had a meaningless sexual encounter with another woman, but not if he formed an emotional bond with another. Cuddling is more likely to invite emotions than sex, in my experience. It is more intimate and releases those attachment endorphins. Men can be very good at compartmentalizing, and if they are paying a women for an intimate service, be it sex or cuddling, many can put that experience in a box because of the cash exchange. A woman is less likely to do this, and that is why the man does not tell his wife what he's up to. I'm not condemning anyone for their lifestyle choices, but I would not want to be the source of potential pain for another woman.
It may be platonic to you and it may be platonic to your client, but I assure you it won't be considered platonic by the spouse!
I have to agree with UKGuy. I don't see married people keeping this from each other. Either way. If one spouse gives consent then different matter. But for me personally I haven't seen keeping secrets from a spouse working well. If it has for some then good for them. I've never seen it work though from my experience.
One time, before I joined this site, I went to a ladies’ house for a bit of cuddling. It’s important to note that she never brought up having a spouse, and I never thought to ask. “If it were an issue, I’m sure that she would mention it,” I thought before our meeting, and then dismissed the idea.
Things went smoothly. Things went platonically. She was the big spoon, and I was a teary-eyed manchild who couldn’t say a word without stuttering. I had almost fallen asleep when a large vehicle pulled into the garage, on the opposite side of the house. A door creaked open, was slammed shut, and heavy footsteps gradually became louder and louder.
There was nowhere to hide in the small bedroom. “Be cool,” said my cuddle buddy. I wondered if she could hear my teeth clattering together, or feel the wild churning of my guts. It was as if things were burrowing inside of me, vying to escape.
The bedroom door disappeared in a shower of splinters. Before I even had time to scream, a beast of a man had gripped me by the throat and dragged me to the garage, where he kept his tools.
He started with the pliers, tearing away my nails, and then went on to pluck out my teeth one by one. The pain and terror subsided after a while. Or rather, I became as far removed from the horrors inflicted upon me as was possible—seeking refuge in the tattered remains of my psyche. Every so often he’d tilt my head to the side, to drain the blood from the craterous ruin that had been my mouth.
I woke up an indeterminate amount of time later, in a kennel of sorts. The rest is...too painful to tell.
So, yeah. My cuddle buddy having a spouse—and keeping her cuddling with others secret—was only an issue because her husband was insane.
@hogboblin: Pffft. Ha. I think this goes on the Cuddle Fiction thread.
@DarrenWalker
...but, it really happened. I just didn’t tell you about it, husband.
@hogboblin: You tell beautiful stories, my wife, but without verification I find it very difficult to believe them. Especially since we both know you're prone to fantasizing.
@hogboblin & @DarrenWalker seriously... You guys are my favorite.
I'm going to probably catch some flak here for saying this but I have no problem with platonic cuddling with married men if all they're looking for is platonic cuddling. I have been involved in a dating relationship before where the man that I was dating was anti-affection. He hated cuddling and hugging and any affection that wasn't sex, so I feel some sympathy for individuals who are seeking affection such as cuddling, elsewhere. Yes, I suppose it could still be seen as being unfaithful, depending on the person. The morality of it, I try not to dwell on it too much.
Totally understandable if you wouldn't feel comfortable to do it. The way I see it, the fellas usually tell me why they are cuddling, and most married men would tell me that their wives aren't the most affectionate... they love each other yes, but their spouse is often either away or really values their personal space and keeps physical touch to a minimum. At this point, it's the married spouse's responsibility but it can turn to a chaotic situation if the spouse finds out. I had a random caller once call my line and did not answer, just hung up after I said Hello? so a friend of mine told me "what if it's a spouse calling your number to find out that its your number (me, a woman)?" who knows but I personally cuddle with all folks, married or not.
It's non something I would personally be comfortable with as a non-pro. I don't like the idea of being asked to be complicit in another person's lie. And it is a lie by ommision.
Also, I'd worry about said man being honest to me about his intentions, since he clearly has no problems lying and I also would be worried about him respecting my boundaries, since he would rather lie than establish shared boundaries with his wife.
Childhood, education, politics are all rife with lies by omission. Why should cuddling be any different?
My point is there is not a right or wrong answer on this....worse things have been rationalized and better things have been considered reprehensible. It solely depends on the people involved. I have my opinion on it but this entire thread is an opinion.
I am a married man who has cuddled pro cuddlers and have never considered it cheating in any way.
I have not disclosed this activity to my wife in any way. She thinks it's pathetic that I need such touch, and disclosing it would accomplish two things: 1. her demand that I stop it 2. her feeling (subconsciously, not rationally) that I am even more pathetic and unworthy of her physical affection
I have not lied about this, nor do I think I ever will. I'm careful with accessing this site and providing my contact info and don't interrupt time I'm with the family to do this. I don't think she's aware that such a thing exists, so she's not going to ask about it.
Non-pro females are often truly looking for romance, and thus I understand that me cuddling with a non-pro is not a good idea in most cases (but could be if we are both on the same page).
I will now repeat myself from another post:
Single people without children may not understand my unwillingness to blow up a family in order to get my needs met under "full disclosure". My children need me every day, not every other week with Christmas day split between two sets of parents. I made my need for affection clear to my wife and have also made it clear that denying it long term will be very destructive and will have consequences. I've had to pick the lesser of three evils: 1. Destroy my family 2. Destroy my self 3. Participate in an activity that my wife is not interested in, without telling her
Single or divorced people can sit on their high horse in judgement, but in my case I know it is the right thing to do.
Parsing some traditional and oft quoted wedding vows: Many people prefer not realize that not allowing your spouse "...to have [sexually] and to hold [cuddle]..." are violating their vows every bit as much as someone who isn't "forsaking all others". When you are denying your spouse touch and/or sex, you are not being faithful to them. (FWIW, we still have sex occasionally)
On the other hand, I intend to honor my vows, including the "til death do you part", and thus do not consider divorce an option, both for the sake of honor and for the sake of my children.
Applaud the disclosure? Then as a pro reassure this is confident like any therapeutic session! And most importantly (if do the appointment), make him (or her) feel comfortable! They follow you
I came to this site shortly after becoming separated from my wife. You bet I didn't want her to know I was on here, she would have shredded me a dozen different ways. Heck, she reamed me out because some chick who is definitely no longer my friend had messaged her saying that I was flirting with her, when I had literally seen her once and had a regular conversation. I didn't make it about that, though. I made it about the fact that I had a major lacking in my life. I wasn't concerned anyone would tell my estranged wife. How would they even find her?
@11rollover - I respect your decision, but I find it... intensely regrettable that you're in the kind of marriage where you can't be open about your personal needs without being judged by your partner. I'm not judging you, I feel legitimately sorry for you. No one should have to live that way. Our society is strangely unforgiving of people for having basic human needs. I wish you could be open with your spouse--but since your past attempts were unsuccessful, it's understandable.
In my case, to the OP, @Here4youAlways - I... well, I wouldn't have posted about this here, in the "general discussion" place; I realize you didn't disclose the name of the client in question, but I would've asked other pros specifically, or at least posted in a designated area. (If I had been the client in question, I might feel a tad wary, or even violated at seeing this post--they were requesting your discretion as a professional.) As long as your client is adhering to site policy and expects absolutely nothing beyond platonic services, their motives for not disclosing to their spouse don't have anything to do with you or your profession.
However, if you're worried about her finding out, becoming jealous, and harassing you--because such things are possible--I do advise caution. Beyond that, if your concerns are moral ... you're only doing your job, and what he's doing is not legally wrong, and you don't have context to make a call about his morals, so either you can tell him that you're uncomfortable and decline to provide services (I suggest revisiting your cancellation policy before you do) or just... accept it and do your job.
@11rollover mic drop
Red flag. Run the other way. Sure it's only platonic, but then why all of the secrecy? Don't get caught up in something that can put your personal safety at risk. Imagine what could happen if his wife grew suspicious and trailed him to your location. Now you have a problem on your hands. For your personal safety, I say don't do it.
Everyone needs cuddles. But your safety is more important than someone needing platonic touch.
Deception is bad.
This is not a real risk for a professional, and the fear of it greatly hinders one's ability to heal.
If the wife is upset, she's going to direct that to her husband and not the pro-cuddler. She's not going to attack the cuddler unless she's completely nuts, in which case we are all at risk. How many grown women out there do you see beating each other up? Society typically doesn't, thank God, run like a Jerry Springer show. I've heard of a man or two throwing a punch at another man who slept with his wife, but I'm just not hearing about all these lady fights. If there is a long term relationship with a non-pro cuddler involved, there's a much higher likelihood that she's going to be upset with the cuddle partner, because emotion is implied if not realized.
As @hogboblin has artfully communicated in his fictional story above: "So, yeah. My cuddle buddy having a spouse—and keeping her cuddling with others secret—was only an issue because her husband was insane."
In some ways I am sympathic as I just don't know the situations of those who are married. I guess getting a divorce if things are that bad they are not getting some of their needs met, and they feel the need to withhold the truth is difficult. I don't know how difficult their situation, and reasons are. Though, as much as I wish them well. I'd not want to be the reason they lie to their partner, and I wouldn't want a potential drama.
I don't know what advice I'd give to married men/ in difficult situations. Though, I wish you well, and hope you achieve your freedom/improve your life soon.
I wouldn't. If you're uncomfortable, don't do it.
So please pardon me if someone has mentioned a similar sentiment. I haven't had the time to wade through all the postings on this thread.
But here is one of the things that I have always pondered when I meet or exchange messages with married men who want to cuddle without being upfront with their wives.... I always ask myself this question and have actually posed it to one or two of them:
Hypothetically speaking: "If you and I were to cuddle and strike up a platonic friendship and then somehow happened to run into one another out and about and you happened to be in the company of your wife, would we have to pretend to not see one another? Would I feel obligated to not acknowledge your existence and vice versa? Because to acknowledge that we had ever met, much less were friends would cause your wife to be suspicious? Well, yeah.. that's just not going to sit well with me and therefore I want nothing to do with that.
That's my litmus test. Others have different thresholds and I understand that. I for one just don't feel good about being complicit in someone else's dishonesty/lack of full disclosure.
Technically, if you have to ask you already answered your own question. You feel uncomfortable. That is all the info you need. Do not do it.
Don't do it since you don't feel comfortable. You don't need to be any part of his dishonesty, no matter the reason. I agree with what @FunCartel wrote. You already know your answer.
Don't do it.
Somebody else will.