The real reason for Pros + poll.

I_am_PolyloverI_am_Polylover
in General
I have previously stated that I have no plans to ever patronize a pro cuddler since they get as much from cuddling as I do, so why should I have to pay. However, that is not the entire truth. Another reason is that there is just no way I could afford it. It is my belief the reason Pros exist is because there are enough guys around with enough money available that they are willing to readily pay what I (being poor) consider to be exorbitant prices. If those guys were to suddenly dry up the money flow (really not very likely to happen), then there would be no more Pros, and the concept of platonic cuddling would get a much needed PR boost. I am curious about the ratio of guys who can easily afford a Pro to guys who can't so I am attaching a poll.
  1. Can you usually easily afford to pay a Pro cuddler?42 votes
    1. Yes
      21.43%
    2. No
      45.24%
    3. Sometimes
      33.33%
«1

Comments

  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    Although I do pay for pros, it isn't always exactly easy. I am not rich and the prices are quite high. I have had a string of amazing luck where many pros have stayed with me for free far past the paid time. I feel blessed and lucky. There are however plenty of pros that say they care yet aren't willing to budge on prices even for their best repeat customers which is very sad.
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    edited April 2017
    I would like to comment except I can better answer yes no sometimes if you can attach a frequency to your poll 
    I can give you a quick answer it is "sometimes".
    i have seen and heard rates on the low end of 45 / hour to 100/ hour average that make it 60 -65  
    as long as go to work , and the economy keeps chugging along the way it is , and gas stays at $1.90 gal .  Then my answer stays at sometimes , at s frequency at once a month for two hours @ 65 hour plus tip .
    keep that constant and since my retirement , (if I live that long ) , does not include a pension , , that "sometimes" could change to " no" ., 

  • [Deleted User]Alternis (deleted user)
    I consider most pros too expensive because it doesn't just end at 80 but most don't host and neither can I so a two hour session becomes 160+90 (cost of a room) = 250 for me plus they charge something retarded for travel. I could be paying close to 300 for a two hour session which I don't consider worth it.

    Only pros I could ever consider seeing now either host or have some more reasonable deal like Brandi where she added another hour if I book a room to see her plus reasonable travel rates.
  • [Deleted User]Dekooning (deleted user)
    My biggest challenge to frequency with a pro, is cost. I feel that the minimum session for me needs to be 1 1/2 hr. Never been able to afford an over-niter and I am not in a position to host. Would prefer developing a friendship with a non-pro since I believe it ultimately can be more interactive.... and equal. Would like to believe that a true platonic relationship can be had with a pro, but there is always the question of when the clock is on or off..... actually I hate the word pro...but I guess it is what it is... 
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    edited April 2017
    Here's what I feel the price model should be

    -$60 an hour
    -53.5 cents per mile travel fee per the IRS one way
    -A free hour for anyone who books a hotel
    -Travel fees waived for anyone booking 3 hrs or more
    -$330 for an 8 hour overnighter
    -$400 for a 10 hour overnighter

    and no other services should be sold on the site. No phone sessions, no Skype sessions, no house cleaning, this is a cuddling site, let's stick with it.

    All of the above is very fair and I can pretty much guarantee that most of the complaining regarding pricing from clients would vanish and I also feel that business would go through the roof for pros.

  • [Deleted User]navyvet76 (deleted user)
    The no other services part I totally agree with. Pricing could be set as a standard based on country.
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    Cool, I just found this thread and it really does answer a lot of questions I've had since recently becoming a "professional cuddler"  on this site. I have tons of experience with non-paid cuddling and I do agree with a lot of the comments above.  It took me several months of going back-and-forth with how I felt about charging...

     I guess my take on it comes from a "time is money perspective"  in the sense that I am a single mom doing the job of keeping a roof over our head, feeding everyone, putting clothes and shoes on two growing teenagers and I would absolutely cuddle for free if I had all of the free time in the world to spare. But my "free" time is so extremely limited that when my children are not home I have NO  other choice but to make money in those hours. Otherwise, I have to leave my children unsupervised or without transportation and without having their mom around when they are home.  

    Also, I truly do believe that as a professional it is much easier to keep firm boundaries from blurring with unwanted advances, sexual touching or simply making sure that a person understands the value of another person's time and energy.  I love the idea Brandi has presented with giving an extra hour if someone purchases a hotel room, or a punchcard for repeat customers!  Brandi, would that be OK if I borrowed your idea? 

     I have also started driving Uber and Lyft to make money in those in-between kid hours when I'm not working my regular job (Midwife and also work as a Doula so birth/babies don't provide me with a 9 to 5 type schedule). With my regular job I am paid more than $100 an hour and Uber/Lyft  is somewhere in the range of $15-$25 per hour. I don't think people who charge for their time, energy and services are intentionally trying to gouge anyone.  For me it is about being able to pay my bills and having a balance in my life of Kids/work/personal time.  

    I'm also very willing to negotiate my prices. I would hate for $10 or $20 per hour to be what keeps a person from getting the cuddling and human contact we all desperately need.  

    ( I am a big fan of the forms section!)


  • BrandiBrandi
    Wonderful response fireandblue! Well said :) I have been fortunate enough to get a good amount of clients, but still its not like im getting paid as often as you guys make it sound... but unfortunetly I dont think youll ever understand from our perspective..


    Also if you are not overly reliant on a pro cuddler and only seeing her every so often then you shouldnt be overspending...Thats all on you, you cant go to a resturaunt, spend all your paycheck and say the waitress is charging too much... You decided to order all that! So if seeing a pro once a month for an hour costs you 80$ that would keep your spending down and youre still treating yourself. And if you need healing in the mean time, find alternatives like going for walks, playing music, writing, meditating. Whatever you feel you should do.


    By the way lyft and uber can be great fireandblue but really time consuming! Best wishes on that! I hope it works for you! :) but anywho I hope you guys understand we charge what we feel is best for us while still try to be fair to you.

    Of course you or any other pro can absolutely use my idea about the extra hour fireandblue! Best wishes!!:)

    Also morpheous that first message you said about how its sad that some pros say they care but dont give you extra time is super unfair. Just like we shouldnt say "oh that client didnt tip..kinda sad" like no... Thats a double standard.
    Also if you cant afford more than 60$ an hour or more than one time a week thats fine but we have already had this topic. This site is beautiful because of how easy it is to use. As said in many many many many other forrums; simply message the pro that fits your comfortabilty! but please stop crapping all over the other pros and how they do things because it doesnt fit your specific needs its getting crazy at this point lol. Capitalism baby!

    Xoxo
    Brandi
  • [Deleted User]navyvet76 (deleted user)
    When this site started or at least when I joined I don't remember pro being an option. That was why I joined because it was not pros.
  • 4cuddles4cuddles
    Wow Fireandblue. How do you juggle all that you do & raise teenagers! Just wow. Hope you also have things just for u, self care? etc.:)

    RE no more pros

    Guess I never appreciated pros costs; how it all adds up. Somewhat puts some of the frustrations towards pros into perspective. Still mixed on my views but since you are asking for male feedback...

    I do want check if people would be willing to contribute to funding the site collectively if there were to be no pros. Aside from thinking of some pros who plan to further this as a buisness. How no more pros, would impact on the site was my next thought?
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
     Cuddling is definitely one part of my self-care routine. And all of those jobs are super part time to make up an almost full-time job when combined. I serve homebirth clients so there is usually only one birth every 4 to 6 weeks. I'm actually not as busy as it sounds LOL.  Another reason why I added professional cuddling. My kids always come first! But the bills still have to get paid, I have been pretty creative puzzling together different things to make it all work. 

     It's definitely nice to see there are choices with mutual cuddling between people who pay or don't pay.  I am also willing to barter for services… I definitely need a website built. And I met up with someone yesterday and absolutely no money was exchanged because he and I had a connection and we met at the mall to cuddle at the Love Sac store and on the department store beds.  It was definitely mild cuddling, no pretzeling was involved, but it was still nice.
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    edited April 2017
    @fireandblue I've only had two pros use uber to come and see me. They both asked me to pay their uber fees to me and back home.

    The first one charged me $80 for an hour of cuddling and the uber fees were $40 total. I think it would have been awesome if she would have stayed an extra half hour to cover the uber fees. She ended up staying four hours total which was amazing beyond anything I could have ever expected.

    The second girl charged me $80 an hour for three hours, $240 and the uber fees totaled $80 so she subtracted $80 from the $240 charging me $160. I still paid a total of $240 but $160 went to the cuddler and $80 went to uber. I felt this was totally fair.

    I personally think @Brandi has the best price model on the site. Brandi, I'm surprised you saw my initial post, it was only there for maybe 5 minutes before edited it. I didn't like my energy in that post and thus the edit.

    The issue that we clients have with pros regarding this topic is if it's truly all about capitalism, stop acting like you care as much as you say you do. The reality is if we weren't paying you money, most of you wouldn't even give us the time of day.
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
     These are all really good points. And I am so grateful for the discussion because it's giving me insight as I decide how to handle payment and being able to remain mindful and empathetic at the same time. I don't think I would turn someone away because they couldn't pay a certain fee, At the same time I couldn't volunteer all of my time because that wouldn't leave any time left for earning money to pay the bills. I happen to live in one of the most ridiculously overpriced areas in the United States. Rent and cost of living here in Clarksville Maryland is very much like New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco. 

     The same thing that draws me into cuddling remains the same if I were paid or unpaid. Maybe it is the nature of my job and all of the intense research I have done over the years about how important oxytocin is to the wellbeing of our physical and emotional body, women and babies and childbirth,  and it plays a huge part in how we treat each other. But I can say this with 100% certainty if I played the lotto and I ever won Powerball I would set up locations all over for free oxytocin clinics. 

    xoxo
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    @fireandblue what if you had a client that you vibed well with and he treated you with respect. Let's say your rate was $80 an hour and he said at that rate, he could only see you once a month but if you dropped it to $60, he could see you twice a month. Would it be worth it to you? 
  • pmvinespmvines
    It is all supply and demand based. If there were not people willing to pay to cuddle then there would be nobody charging to cuddle. And just because someone calls themselves a professional  cuddler doesn't make them any better of a cuddler then a non pro, just means they happen to charge. Anyone can cuddle it doesn't really require special schooling.  In my opinion there is nothing wrong at all with someone charging for it, good on them for making some money doing something they love doing and giving those who have no partners a chance to cuddle with someone. If you don't want to pay for it, then don't see a pro.
  • quietman775quietman775
    I am a business owner, and I know all clients everywhere want businesses to charge less. Some clients act entitled to pro bono stuff. So I feel for the cuddle pros on this issue. While I applaud @Brandi for her generosity, expecting a free hour for clients who paid for a room seems a little much. I would recommend seeing pros for outcalls only when traveling on business, in which case you would have needed to pay for the room anyway --- it's not an additional cost of cuddling. If you don't need to travel, then the options are to either host at your residence or visit cuddlers who do incalls. If a client chooses to book a room just for cuddles, it shouldn't be up to the pros to subsidize that choice. There is more than principle involved here: there is math.

    @Morpheus, let's work through the math of your suggested business model. You book a two-hour session in a hotel. But one of those hours is free, so her true rate of pay is $30 per hour, not $60. Assuming a 30-minute drive from her place to each appointment, she could reasonably see two outcalls per day. That's four hours of cuddle time (only two of them paid) plus two hours of drive time, plus time to clean up between appointments and maybe grab a bite to eat. So she makes $120 for her workday. If she does that five days per week, she makes $600 gross. Working 48 weeks per year, that's an annual gross of $28.8K. After taxes, she doesn't earn enough to cover the rent on the median one-bedroom apartment in New York City, Boston, Los Angeles, or San Diego. She probably doesn't stay in the biz very long. She'll eventually realize there are a lot of jobs that can pay her $28K per year, that don't require her to have tremendous empathy or acting skills, and don't require her to risk spending time in hotel rooms with strangers.

    @Annie85, I'd pass on funding the site. At least, until I succeeded in getting traction with non pros from it.

    OP, I wish I didn't need to pay a pro. but I don't hire one if I can't afford it, and once I hire, I don't begrudge her the money (at least if she's not overtly mercenary about it, LOL). My favorite cuddle pro has a regular day job with benefits, and supplements that income with 2-3 hours of cuddling 3-4 nights per week. I can see her making that work long-term without burning out.  She's very good, so I'll keep spending the money without complaint. .




  • [Deleted User]raul (deleted user)

    1) The high hourly rates will attract lots of would be pro-cuddlers  especially since there are no  license  requirements or regulations, As more pro-cuddlers offer their services in an area, competition could force rates to go down.  But if some pro-cuddlers are perceived to be better than others, they will be able to command a premium especially if customers are reluctant to switch.

    2) Pro-cuddlers may also see benefit in reducing rates as that will expand the customer base and hence potentially higher sales.  If (just an example ) say  Brandi gets 3customer a day @ 80/hr ,  she may attract 6 customers a day  by reducing  the rate to 60 /hr.

    Her daily sales in this scenario will go up from  $240 to  $360

    3) If there is truly a therapeutic benefit to cuddling, the Health Insurance industry may cover cuddling costs. This will of course standardize and reduce rates as the insurance companies will drive a tough bargain with pro-cuddlers. This could be a win-win for all . Pro-cuddlers will see an explosion in demand though at lower rates. Customers may only need to pay a co-pay.  But this will also begin the process of licensing/certification  and regulation among pro-cuddlers.

  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    Morpheus, absolutely. Like I said above I met up with someone yesterday and zero money was exchanged because we had a great connection. We still spent more than two hours together and have planned to meet up again. 

     I hope it doesn't come across wrong, it's certainly not *all* about the money for me, but I am a single mother and it costs $3000-3600 per month to run my household and I'm the only one earning that money. So my free time isn't really "free" when I need to spend most of that kid-free time to earn a living and support myself and my two kids.  I guess we all make choices,  some people make more money than others and they are financially in a better place, so many factors go into the decisions we all make.

    I don't charge my friends when we hang out obviously LOL but I would also never expect a therapist or a massage therapist or the person who cuts my hair to do the job for free, nor would I expect a discount because I went back and saw them multiple times. This cuddling is totally different in my opinion, because sharing our personal space and emotional intimacy is definitely a choice. But if I am meeting up with a stranger for the first time I would definitely have a different spin on it than if it was a repeat cuddler and somebody I formed a genuine bond with, and if we saw each other for repeat cuddling, I would absolutely accommodate with my prices. 

     I've taken a look at several different people who list prices on their profile and I'm still deciding what to charge. So far I haven't had anyone pay. But I definitely agree with you that Brandi has a very reasonable layout.  

  • pmvinespmvines
    @Morpheus, I am in Birmingham AL and the pro I see charges 60 per hr and 400 for overnight which includes her cooking you dinner and going out if you want for like drinks, movie, etc. Not really a time limit, just whenever you get there and whenever you wake in the morning and have coffee and breakfast. I haven't done an overnight, not really sure if I would want to as I like to retreat to my personal space plus its more money then I really have to spend for something like that. Plus we hang out for a lot longer then the two hr session anyway.

    Only thing I don't really agree with you re your price chart is the free hr for a hotel room. For example, if I am staying out of town and book a session for out call, am I to expect a free hr just because I am staying in a hotel?
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    I think @pmvines and @quietman775 are missing my ultimate point which is that many pros regardless of how they say they care, for them, this is ultimately about money. I am not saying this is the case with every single pro.

    I don't know if you all have read my profile but I have more positive karma than any other male on cuddle comfort. I've been around the block and I'm a huge proponent of cuddling and pro cuddling. I would love pro cuddling to follow the path of love, caring and Sharing and not capitalism. I would love for pro cuddlers to be people that are happy they can get paid to do something that love doing rather than just another way to make a quick buck.

    @Quietman775 great, you're a business man so go ahead and help these pros set up a business model where they can Increase their profits and make cuddling even more unaffordable, let's do the same with healthcare, schooling and housing while we're at it. Let's just all be about money and do whatever we can to make money and not concern ourselves with the greater good.

    Awesome :-)
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    @pmvines the hotel thing is for pros that can't host. If a pro can't host, she's expecting you to provide a place to cuddle. Several men can't host either so if a pro can't host and the client has to get a hotel, shouldn't there be some kind of compensation? Look at what just happened to that price for a simple cuddle. She shares $80 an hour plus $20 for travel and you have to pay $95 for a hotel room. Your simple one hour session just cost you $195. What's the solution? The client doesn't book and the pro misses out on that money or you come to a compromise?
  • pmvinespmvines
    @Morpheus, I don't claim to know the intentions of any of the pro cuddlers. One can assume that a really good pro will make you feel in the moment with them and make you feel like they are having as good a time as you are regardless of how they feel. I am not sure whether I am missing your point as I am more so stating what my personal thoughts are and what my experiences have been with a pro that I have used. Did I miss something with my post, or imply anything about yours? If so I apologize, just responding to the thread title.
  • quietman775quietman775
    I don't think I missed your hotel point. My point was that a client who can't host, and hates the added cost of a hotel, should seek a pro who does incalls. Or a free cuddler. Paying for a hotel to get a cuddle is either worth it to you or it's not. If pros are routinely asked to share the cost of a room on outcalls, they'll start bumping hotel gigs in favor of clients who can host at home. Every "fix" for one problem has unintended consequences that create another..

    Healthcare, schooling, and housing? Sarcasm and anti-capitalist sentiment aside, the fact is that sellers naturally try to maximize profits and buyers naturally try to minimize expenses. In free markets, they negotiate this conflict to their mutual satisfaction. Some pros would take you up on your deal. Some wouldn't.  Why not ask a few and see how it goes?

    Everybody talks about the greater good, but no one defines it. I don't see how a price structure that theoretically lets the pro meet ten clients per week and still not make a decent living serves the greater good, unless one insists that the needs of clients outweigh the needs of pros. The scenario I described in my post above would just thin the ranks of the profession. Lower supply with continuing high demand equals higher prices, not lower ones.

    This site still has free cuddlers on it. Maybe that is the solution for those who can't or won't pay the going rate for a pro. There are trade-offs in everything: Pros grant easy access, nearly cuddle-on-demand availability in return for a not insignificant sum of money. Non-pros don't cost anything, but aren't nearly so available or accessible. Time and the laws of supply and demand will iron out a market consensus on pricing for pros. If the numbers are more than you can justify spending, that leaves non pros as the only real option, Capitalism is not at fault for that, and neither am I.  :-)

    Speaking of capitalism, I'm still working, and have to get back to creating some profit with which to pay the bills and set aside some cash so I'm not a burden to society in the future. . No more time for posting. Enjoy your weekend, everyone..

     .


  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    edited April 2017
    @Quietman775 I never said you missed my hotel point, what are you talking about? And speaking of capitalism, I'm relaxing and lounging on the beach :-)
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    Yeah seems like lots of hate on pros.  It's really not cool. :/
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    edited April 2017
    I wouldn't call it hate. I am opinionated about the cuddling business but as I re-read through these comments, I don't see hate. I see what can be perceived as hate but the boards are also full of what can be perceived as hate directed at clients. I've seen 19 pros total and have more positive karma than any other man on cuddle comfort. That is not the behavior of someone that hates pros. I want this business to grow in the right way and so do others clients and pros. Of course we all have different opinions of what's right and wrong. I will continue to see pros and treat them with respect and kindness and I will continue to voice my opinion regardless of what anyone says. You can ask all 19 pros that I have seen and I guarantee you that they will all say that I treated them well.
  • pmvinespmvines
    You realize we are all grown adults bickering about cuddling?
  • [Deleted User]masterofcuddle (deleted user)
    @quietman775 with a name like quietman you sure have some lengthy posts.
  • [Deleted User]Unknown (deleted user)
    Bickering? This is pillow talk ;-)
  • I_am_PolyloverI_am_Polylover
    $28.8K seems like a lot to me considering that I get less than $14K.
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