@CuddleMeLater: We're all shaped by our upbringings, and our upbringings are shaped by our societies. We are who we are not only because of the raw material we were born with, but also because our societies are what they are.
It's not a matter of simply following rules. It's a matter of having them built in. Perhaps I can see this better because my raw material was the wrong sort to take so many of the rules. I was still shaped by my society... just not the way most people in it are.
Edit: Pardon me—my cuddle buddy's home. GTG.
@DarrenWalker "people assigned to the Male box can't cuddle with other people in the Male box without getting side-eyed."
True. Some men are concerned they might be labelled as gay, and that would harm their life chances ; like many gay actors of both genders have historically hidden their orientation, so the audience will more readily accept them playing straight characters, which are the majority of roles.
But there's more.
Why are so many men on this site, concerned that they might be "outed" as someone who is happy with only platonic cuddling with females ?
I suspect it's the same reason. Men are perhaps not thought to be "proper" men, if they would be satisfied with only that activity. That was my experience as a teenager, "You were in her bedroom together for two hours, and you didn't even kiss ?"
The idea might be that being gay isn't just indicated by wanting sex with men, but by not ( continuously ) wanting sex with women. That might explain some of the boundary-pushing ; that it isn't always because the men think they might be successful, but because they need to try, in order to reassure themselves and the woman, of their orientation. They have to buy a ticket in the lottery, to prove they would like to win, even if they are certain they won't.
When one can't have something one wants, like a smoker with no cigarettes, a coping mechanism is to convince oneself that one doesn't want it. But if a man who doesn't want sex with women, implies they are an orientation they don't want, it can be tricky.
The ideal relationship is perhaps for : The man to have a female partner, whom he is certain would agree to have sex with him, "any time, any place, anywhere", ( Martini ) as often as he wants, for as long as he wants. She is "a sure thing", at his beck and call, eagerly awaiting the moment they can be together. The woman to have a male partner who would do the same ; but only when she asks, and he will not ask.
It's rather like 911 / 999, we really hope to not need such help, and would be embarrassed to carelessly get into a situation where we must ; but believing help is only a ( booty ) phone call away, is a very nice feeling.
This is a really interesting thread. I wonder if part of the difference between men and women here is that women are more comfortable cuddling with people they have zero romantic or sexual attraction to (e.g. same sex friends, family members and relatives), whereas most men want or expect at least some attraction to consider it in the first place. Men seem to feel a greater repulsion or disgust response towards cuddling people where there is no attraction or even potential for romantic/sexual attraction to occur.
Personally I quite enjoy cuddling with people where there is no romantic, sexual or erotic attraction (and no possibility of it ever occurring), which is why I became a professional cuddler. Cuddling on its own can be inherently fulfilling and I want to share that magic with others, as it can be incredibly healing and transformative. If there was strong attraction between myself and a client - which has never occurred before but could in theory - I would stop seeing them in a professional capacity as it would compromise the integrity of my work.
@CuddleMeLater Don't you mean "Have I been to "The Rapist?" Put those two word together and see what it spells. And Yes! I have been to TWENTY THREE OF THEM over the years, and not all of the by my own free will. Most of them are when I was under the age of 18, and the last one, I had to go to in order to get a note for school to get help with taking tests since I have had a stroke, the therapist USED the system in order to make peony and did not tell me that their therapy could not be used for my school, so THEY LIED in order to STEAL MY MONEY! - And hat does not include one of the therapist RUNNING out of the room because I am a late bloomer who has to deal with having an Oedipus complex! (Look that one up)
If she could not handle that issue, then that little missy is in the WRONG profession and at the very least, needs to go back to flipping burgers! - and all of that does not cover how a "group that I was the only one in, so far" was "canceled" all because of my comment, not how the psychologist told me that using cuss words was not allowed."
LMAO! "Not allowed?" Excuse me, but when I am paying good money for their rhetoric, I can talk how ever I dang well please!
And do you think a man like me would ever be honest with a therapist since they are required to report anything that is illegal, though they are "bound by "confidentially?" Men like me often hire HOOKERS! DO you honestly think that patients are going to tell a therapist that, knowing that they would be arrested before they left the building?
THE ONLY reason why I've never gone the hooker route, is because I know that I would have eventually caught an S.T.D. and I'm not that stupid!
About a year ago I took a class in Psychology in college in order to try and have a forum to speak out and the Professor REFUSED to let anyone speak on their own personal experiences. Forst he made it appear (to the younger students) that "This is the way it is and do not even think about asking questions," then turned around to use class time to push a personal agenda that had nothing to do with the topic I paid for. Then he had the nerve to tell me that I needed therapy. To make things worse, I found out that I was the THE PERSON to make a complaint about the Professor and the school still refused to reprimand, or fire him! (and refused to refund my money since 2/3 of class time was having to sit through having to listen to the guy go off on personal rants)
THIS SERVICE is a form of therapy! I have gotten myself through things on my own because no one else had ever listened! - And I am actually surprised that some of the ladies I have seen did not break the rules and offer to be a real friend.
Groff1000, a phobia is an irrational fear of something. Disgust is what most men feel about the idea of cuddling or kissing another man. Evolution instilled that in men for a reason. The term homophobia is almost always used inaccurately and is used as a slur. Utter disgust is the true feeling. There is a scene in Family Guy where two men kiss each other and they end up barfing in each other's mouths. This is so true! I know I'm going to receive push back on this because it violates woke orthodoxy, but it's true.
@saxman A celebrity who was reputed to be taking drugs, was once asked by a journalist in State X, if they had ever taken Drug Y, which was illegal there. The celebrity replied, "Never in the state of X".
Some actions may be crimes in many countries, but few citizens are prosecuted for doing acts which were legal when and where they did them.
Someone who wanted to discuss using prostitutes with a therapist, could therefore lie about only where it happened.
P.S. When I first read "flipping burgers" I thought that was a euphemism of the F-word. 😀
Maybe so, but I guarantee that if I had seen prostitutes that the cops would have been called. Also, I can not even be honest about how I really feel about how my house was burglarized and I know who did it and the police refused to even question my supersets but threatened to arrest ME for being persistent in going to the police station once a week to try and find out how my case was going, or how my Grandmother was taken advantage of on her death bed (by the same people that are my burglary suspects) on what I would do to them if I ever saw then again. - My Grandmother was my MOM, since I never knew who my real mom was.
Everyone knows what any man would do if someone ever talked smack against their mother! I once had a police officer ADMIT that they only go after those who retaliate! It is too bad that I did not have my own body camera with me at the time! (As I have had a lawyer tell me exactly how to secretly record someone and make it legal)
@saxman One of my favourite items of graffiti was the sign : "Help Your Local Police" ; to which someone had added, "Beat yourself up".
@TouchSanctuary your first comment in this thread def belongs in the “ why are there so few women enthusiasts in this website “ discussions - questions - threads
It's the fee for constantly having to contend with the sexual advances...?
@saxman
This is absolutely, 100% false. Confidentiality in therapy is a real thing. Therapists are only supposed to report something if you're a danger to yourself or others. I've told several therapists about highly illegal things I've done (things which didn't hurt anyone), and they did not bat an eye. And I know a man whose therapist literally suggested he see an escort. Therapists have heard some crazy stuff. I guarantee you if you tell a therapist "I see hookers sometimes", they will not care and it will probably be the most boring thing they heard all week.
About a year ago I took a class in Psychology in college in order to try and have a forum to speak out and the Professor REFUSED to let anyone speak on their own personal experiences.
That makes sense though. A class in Psychology is not supposed to be a forum for you to speak out. Why in the world would you have expected that to be welcome? If you used it as such, that was probably seen as rude and disruptive to everyone else who was there to learn Psychology.
Please do get some help, and try to be open minded about it.
@TouchSanctuary You might be onto something there. I actually don't feel disgust at the prospect of cuddling someone I'm not attracted to (or even a man for that matter), and I really am only looking for platonic cuddling, but a lot of the same things that might appeal to me in a cuddler partner are things that would also appeal to me in a romantic partner.
Meanwhile I know lots of pros have really loved some sessions with people they would never consider dating.
If there was strong attraction between myself and a client - which has never occurred before but could in theory - I would stop seeing them in a professional capacity as it would compromise the integrity of my work.
Interesting. The cuddlers I know have a very different perspective. I wonder if this is another difference between the type of pro cuddler who posts on the forum vs the type of pro cuddler who one is more likely to find through searching the site.
.
@littermate I think @CuddleMeLater was recommending therapy to @saxman ...?
I would be open to hearing other perspectives on this one. My personal view is that relatively mild attraction is not a problem, though an intense (on my side) crush/limerence could easily derail a therapeutic relationship. That said, it's extremely rare for me to experience limerence with anyone at all, so the chances of it happening are incredibly slim.
I'm not the kind of person who experiences romantic or sexual attraction to many people in general. I would estimate that I probably meet one or two people per year I am strongly attracted to. I haven't met anyone new this year that I am strongly attracted to, despite meeting quite a few new people (as COVID has not been as much of an issue in my area).
I also prefer not to attempt to create a "girlfriend experience" or fantasy where someone is under the illusion that I am romantically or sexually attracted to them - as that's not the kind of work I do. I might have less clients this way, but I would rather have a smaller number of clients who are a good fit for me.
Whether a client feels any romantic or sexual attraction is not an issue, unless they behave inappropriately or cross boundaries. Transference is relatively common in this line of work, and it can provide a safe space for people to work through it.
Thanks @quixotic_life . Indeed @littermate , I said nothing to @DarrenWalker like what you're accusing me of.
@CuddeMe Later
I've been to TWENTY THREE Therapists over the decades and the all ahave told me "I dont know how to help." Then refuse to refund my money. That is a form of theft. Please re read my comment. Also, the last therapist I talked to I said, "Why dont you give give me some P... ? After all, we all want sex and deep down I know you find me cute. SO let's cut to the chase and get it over with. She also could not handle me having to through the Oedipus Comlex as a late bloomer.
Therapy IS a form of prositution for all of the telll you that they can help, that is, until you flash some greenbacks!
And YES! A phycology class is there to find help, for student are SUPPOSED to ask questions in order to discover life and question water or not what they are being taught is the truth and to bring their own perspective and CHALLENGE the status quo. - Just like I told young student in my college history class, "You all had better starting asking questions becaue what is being taiga in the class, I was an EYE WITNESS TO and can tell you for a fact hat you are being lied to!"
s]lso with the Phycology Professor, I had to add this guy in private before class (which he used his office hours to do PRIVATE things) and fall out told me that he was not going to let me talk...then continued in class time, to talk about tints that were NOT part of what I had paid to learn. Welcome to what really takes place in the Univercites today.
So I was not being rude, for this teacher was not doing his job in the first place. - Hypothosis's were implied to be facts, when that isn't even what the word means!
There is no such things as "help" for it is all a set up to drain victims of Money.
@TouchSanctuary Most cuddlers who I've talked to about this have said they occasionally feel strongly attracted to a client, and they don't seem to see it as an obstacle. Feel free to message me if you'd like to know more, but I'd rather not elaborate on the forum.
Plenty of threads with the same complaints but if someone were to start a thread about how awesome their experiences have been and all their positive interactions with recommendations on what folks could do differently I am sure it would be seen as mean and unsympathetic
@pmvines Have you actually read this thread? Can you really characterize it as complaining after the first page or so? And do you really think a thread about positive experiences would be seen as mean?
I've had lots of great experiences, but would feel weird discussing them publicly.
A phycology class is there to find help
Nope. A psychology class is there to learn psychology, not help you with your personal issues.
Seems to be another thread complaining about pro cuddlers and underlying resentment towards it but if I am wrong about that I will admit it and move on
Thanks @quixotic_life and deep apology @CuddleMeLater. That's what I get for being hasty and reading on my phone on the way somewhere. Eek! Deleted the offending post and eating my hat and some crow with my lunch.
Did you really do this . . . ? Also, the last therapist I talked to I said, "Why dont you give give me some P... ? After all, we all want sex and deep down I know you find me cute. SO let's cut to the chase and get it over with.
Perhaps not a good move. I'm assuming the abbreviated word is another word for cat.
@Avitalr Professional boundaries are very important, regardless of how strong and genuine the feelings, or certainty that they are reciprocated. Any man who thinks it's OK to make non-platonic requests to a female pro-cuddler during a session, should imagine this scenario . . .
You are worried about prostate problems, so visit your doctor. He says a "digital rectal examination" is needed, and puts on a surgical glove. With your pants around your ankles, bent over the desk, he quietly says mid-procedure, "I finish at six, do you want to go for a drink afterwards ?"
I think this is an interesting question and interesting thread. I remember hearing about a cuddling service that started up in my area several years ago, and it made the news because it was an unheard of type of service. It is owned by a woman, and I seem to remember them hiring more pro cuddlers, all of which were women, last time I checked. I had considered it myself. But I find it interesting that it seems there are many female pro cuddlers, but I haven't seen any male pro cuddlers. Would a woman pay a man for a cuddle session? I understand though that there are a lot of men who give sexual advances that are unwanted. I rarely hear of it the other way around.
And when I think of my own preferences, I'm a mostly straight guy and tend to prefer to cuddle women. I tend to feel more of a nurtured & loved feeling with women than I do hugging a man. I wonder if it's that I tend to be mostly straight, or that women tend to be more nurturing than men in general.
Also, as another person said, human touch in the US has been sexualized, and I think there's definitely a cultural aspect to it. Many people in the US seem to be a bit averse to hugs & such. I've visited Brazil a few times, and physical touch and public displays of affection seem to be a lot more common there. It's common for women to greet friends (both female and male) with a hug and a kiss on the cheek, and it even seemed relatively common for some men greet each other with a hug. When I met some friends of friends there, there was one guy who greeted me by putting his arm around me, and though that would be unusual in the US, I was fine with it. I imagine people in the US might be happier in general if we didn't have to feel so averse to human touch in the US.
@FlyingToaster It's definitely a cultural thing ; like women being topless in public is illegal in some countries, but almost mandatory in others.
If the culture is that cuddling always leads to sex, then people will have that expectation. Imagine going into a posh restaurant, sitting down and examining the menu ; and when the waiter asks what you'd like to order, you say you are just practicing your reading. Or someone standing on the parapet of the Golden Gate Bridge, just to get a better view, and people thinking they are going to jump.
Sometimes it helps to be only incremental in our attempts to change a culture.
I understand though that there are a lot of men who give sexual advances that are unwanted. I rarely hear of it the other way around.
It does happen. But it's much less common, and men are much less likely to care.
@CuddleMeLater Such female requests, usually come with a price.
Unpopular opinion alert: A non-pro can be choosy, a pro cannot. If you reach out to non-pros and are continuously ignored or rejected it may be time to reevaluate your approach. Yes, I am fully aware of the imbalance of non-pro men and women on the site, but that is in part due to non-pros who identify as women being at the bottom of the pecking order as they aren't making money for anyone.
Inflammatory misogyny accusations have been removed. [-Sid]