@quixotic_life: This isn't to say you can't improve your odds! If there are 100 people who think a lovable person is one who bathes daily, and only three people who think stinky people are lovable, your chances of meeting someone who thinks you're lovable go way up if you bathe daily. All I'm saying is that there are no guarantees.
Taking a bath every day makes it more likely that you'll meet someone who thinks you're lovable, but it doesn't guarantee it. You haven't earned anything—no one has to love you because you're not stinky. Your odds are just better. That's all.
So you don't always get what you give. There's no law, no power that makes that happen.
But your odds of getting are better if you give than if you don't. It's just... not a guarantee. You can give, and give, and get nothing, ever. That can happen. Best to be aware of the possibility, so you won't be taken completely off guard if it actually happens... and so you don't think you've definitely earned something in return for whatever you've given when it is, in fact, possible that you won't get anything. That way lies shock, horror, a feeling of deep betrayal, and bitter cynicism.
Probably healthier to avoid that, if you can.
Nobody else thought this?
I thought this...
You're in luck! Captain Obvious is here with ways you can improve your chance of finding Love:
If all else fails, lower your standards.
You're welcome.
@snugglicious Captain Obvious to the rescue! Seriously though, it's pretty decent advice, though I guess it's less about finding love and more about how to be attractive to women, though perhaps that was more what the OP was going for.
I married someone I thought was very attractive. He was tall, big muscles, could build a house from scratch. A very manly man. It was a horrible marriage. He was so full of himself and yet so incredibly insecure. And I was a moron to stay with him and his abuse for almost 8 years before it finally ended. So while in the middle of my divorce, I was moved out, new city, new job, new people. I was not looking for love. I was suicidal, unhappy, scared of everything and yet the love of my life came to me. He was a lanky, nerdy quiet unconfident person but he treated me like gold! He accepted me for who I am and reminded me I mattered.
I said all that to say sometimes you can go through a decade of abuse or loneliness or at the absolute bottom but eventually, when you least expect it, something amazing could happen. I had to be patient for 8 years before my unexpected happiness came to me. You just work on yourself and your happiness, and something will come. Not everything happens immediately. 💖💖 and you don’t need to be some rich muscular fake person. Be what makes you feel comfortable in your own skin.
@Sheena123 - I'm 42 and never been in a relationship. My social awkwardness is most likely killing off any chance.
A pandemic where you have to socially distance doesn’t help either 😣 it does make it hard to meet people and connect if you don’t take that leap and try to talk and get to know people but it’s not advisable right now unfortunately. My dad was in a loveless marriage for 16 years and remarried happily at 55. Honestly, there’s no time limit. Some take longer. Just takes patience and understanding. And a bit of a push to talk to people. That always helps, even though it can be hard.
@Sheena123 - I did try online dating and this is the only response I got.
Please don’t let rude horrible bitches like that deter you from reaching out to people. A lot of people are so fake on dating profiles. To be safe right now, all we can do is connect online but once we have more freedom, try to overcome any fear you might have and find a physical place to meet people.
@Sheena123 - Due to my neurodiversity(autism) many people don't understand the way I think and behave. Heck I pissed people off on here for saying the wrong thing.
Better to keep trying as opposed to not at all. You will eventually meet people who understand who you are. There are plenty of people on here who love you so give people in person a chance ☺️ No excuses, just keep trying no matter what!!
@DarrenWalker ~ Thank you for the link in another thread (which relates to my thoughts here)... 😕🚫🧩/🤗💓♾
@Mike403 ~ the collective understanding of those who are "neurodiverse" becomes greater by the day, and better visual representations of the spectrum are being developed too.
Visual of misunderstanding:
Visuals that better illustrate the reality:
🤨 boo to that blurriness ^^^ but I'm leaving it in!
Fyi, this comic strip, by Rebecca Burgess, is Amazing!!!
click that!! ^ ^ ^
Also, I don't think you should allow yourself to hide behind your Autism. Just like I shouldn't hide behind my stuff (the pic below is my reality). It's easier said than done and everyone is different. But we all need to develop coping strategies and to figure out the tools needed to navigate our paths, and build bridges to success.
We humans depend on exterior structures, that provide a barrier between us and the outside world, to keep us safe and secure. Unfortunately, we also tend to build barriers within our minds as well. It's here that what we build can lead to us exploring and finding what we desire (pathways/bridges) or we erect and reinforce our walls (some without windows) that keep us secluded.
To continue the metaphor ~ Yes, venturing out is scary, we could get hurt, or lost, or...? Any number of things we think might be 'bad' could happen. But staying shut in leads to depletion. We need the sun on our skin, we need human interaction, we need to fail to learn and grow, we need to get hurt to realize we can heal and continue, and sometimes we need to experience getting lost because that's where we often find what is most unexpected and remarkable.
~ Okay, so you have Autism... Now what? ~ 💞
note ~ I'm aware that many with Autism don't do well with metaphors. I chose to use them despite that because @Mike403 has related to them in the past and "verbal visualizations" are my communication comfort zone and are how I'm best able to explain my point of "view". Hopefully I at least make sense to some...
@quixotic_life - Thanks for that. (hugs)
@CatCuddler hasn’t been here for a while, I hope he’s doing well. He posed an important question. One that I’ve considered, many many times before.
@pmvines provides excellent (and practical) advice.
One thing I would recommend to anyone, make an honest assessment of where you are, on the path to be being loved. Unless you know where you are, you can’t plan where you will go. Some of us are stuck on the initial introduction. Others can make friendships, which never seem to blossom. Think of finding love as a progression. Focus on developing the skills to create these meaningful connections. Of course, this is only my opinion. Yeah, I wish that love were like magic. We would meet and look into each other’s eyes. And just know. But that’s never been the case for me.
@Mike403, my first knowledge of you in came in a discussion, urging you to come back. What better indicator, of the potential to be loved? I could only aspire to having so many people asking for me.
@Sheena123 your words of encouragement really help. They are kind, well-informed, and motivational. I like to think I have the most sensitive bs detectors around. But when I read your words I feel nothing but sincerity.
@cualtzin that’s so sweet to say ☺️ Thank you
You’re very right. Wouldn’t it be nice if it was a snap of the fingers? Sometimes when it does happen, it does feel like that but it’s never on tour agenda, that’s for sure
I been in alot of relationships and all they cared about was how attractive I am and my body. For that reason, I never really been in loved. So I think appearance doesn't have anything to do with finding true love. If someone really like you for you then your outer appearance wouldn't matter. There is more than enough love bugs out that for everyone, just have to find your match and be yourself!
I've sent messages to other women who cuddle either and I also have an issue with not getting responses from the women. They probably haven't looked at the site for awhile or have a lot of messages.
I started my self analysis and introspective journey in April 1988 after I watched my grandfather collapse. He had suffered his third stroke in two years with multiple seizure activity. As he lay still and obtunded on the bathroom floor at 2:00 am I hurriedly slid a sheet under him and dragged his lifeless unresponsive body to my front gate where I waited for one of his sons to pick us up to take him to the emergency room.
He would survive. But I felt the deepest guilt from feeling powerless to help him the way he did me a few years earlier when I suffered a respiratory arrest. I never forgave myself.
In the ensuing years until his death 5 years later I did everything I could to compensate for the help I felt I failed him that morning. He never saw me. My youngest sister was his favorite. I eventually made peace with that. As I slowly began the arduous lifelong process over the next thirty two years of learning to love myself.
From inner bonding classes with Dr Margaret Paul, self help books, to journal writing manually and virtually, to tragic loss of family and very close friends, to a failed marriage and Parenthood I've taken every experience and processed and micro processed it to the nth degree. And I'm still learning. Still learning to love myself.
Sometimes I feel unloveable because of the sheer patience it takes to interact with and understand me. Over three decades of brutal self analysis and self critical thinking have left me exhausted. It has made me painfully self aware but exhausted. It takes patience and openmindedness to truly love and appreciate me. Still I keep going.
All the self help books and inner bonding sessions over the past twenty five years have taught me to live my life through the eyes of a child. The inner curious child in me that embraces and engages every moment like it's the first. To meet people where they are as they present themselves whenever they do. Sometimes I get brutally rejected. Sometimes I get accepted. Sometimes I feel indifference. But I always feel grateful for each experience, good and bad.
Hence these days I'm not looking for company. I'm not looking for love. I'm not looking for anything. I'm creating my own happy space doing all the things that I love. Meeting and engaging with people regardless of whether they see, hear ,accept me or not. I just don't care anymore. I just make enjoying the experience in the moment my goal. And that is enough for me.
I still get lonely. It just doesn't sit on me anymore. I am still alone. I just stay busy keeping my mind and spirit engaged in what I love. And I'm still a loner which still turns people off and pushes them away. At least some people. Others are intrigued and they show interest. And that interest I've built pretty meaningful and caring connections from. That offers the balance between the rejection and the feeling of being seen and heard.
I still have no social friends. I still have no personal friends. But the connections I've managed to build from mere interest over the years are enough to keep me balanced. Are enough to keep me motivated on my thirty two year and counting journey to self love and self acceptance. Even on the days I don't feel loveable on account of one experience or another. I can still look myself in the eye and forgive the wounded adult and continue to nurture the fragile inner child in me.
It's an ongoing process of trial and error, of figuring stuff out and letting other stuff just be. And as such I will always be loveable to myself at least. Even when I don't feel loveable.
Does it mean I'm never loveable to others? Not necessarily. For those who find my essence interesting and invest some time to get to know me. I feel seen and valued by. Hence to some degree loveable to them. To others not so inclined including family, not at all.
And for me and my inner child that is okay. I have created my own happy space internally. And continue to build on it . And that keeps me feeling content. Especially after working extremely hard at it over these last thirty two years. I look forward to continuing this lifelong journey. Regardless of my social circle or relationship status I will always be content and grateful. No matter what.
I really enjoyed your post Bles, thank you for sharing.
I feel unlovable too CatCuddler.
I spent the last three years laser focused on trying to improve myself and make myself more desirable. I lost 80 lbs, got into good shape, picked up hobbies, had career success, learned to dress better, etc.
I could finally get female attention, I was so happy! All my hard work paid off! But everything kept failing. I would get interest followed by rejection whenever I tried to form a relationship.
It made me realize that it wasn't all the superficial things I used to blame (my weight, looks, etc), but that something in the core of my being was unlovable.
I'm 32 and so completely alone. I don't know where to go, how do you fix an unlovable core? I just want to love and be loved. I don't think anyone has really loved me before.
It is hard, I can't even look people in the eyes because I feel so worthless, and I don't have the energy to try and fail any more.
Anyway, sorry for rambling, thanks for letting me vent. I still hope I can find love some day.
@RandomUnsername
Captain Obvious here, please refer to my post above. You have completed items #1-3 and the results were dramatic! You now have possibilities where before there was nothing. Do not diminish your exceptional achievement, you deserve great respect for it. Now look at the rest of the program.
You do NOT have some magical, mystical and ill-defined quality of unloveableness that hovers darkly over your soul. This is fantastical nonsense and nothing more than an excuse for giving up. Past rejections do NOT imply that you will always be rejected in the future.
What you need now is Courage. Ideally, your buddies would be there to buck you up and get you back in the game. But instead you will have to make do with a youtube video of that famous scene from Iolanthe
"If you go in, you'll surely win Faint heart never won fair lady"
@Bles Thank you for sharing your journey with us. People will like what they like, we can't control that. I'm not sure how you feel about social friends, but they're very grounding as you know can always hang out with them. Then again, some of us are very introverted and do not require as much human interaction as others.
@Mennahugs Sorry you've never been in love. For one reason or another, physical attraction is important to get that ball rolling - once it gets rolling, it's supposed to develop more intensely. It reaches a peak, and drops off after a while, which is when you're left dealing with that person without the insanity of infatuation. The commitment and bond from being together in theory is supposed to be enough to stay together during that dip in attraction, and build on it to create a love born not of physical attraction but of mutual respect, trust, and emotional longing. Best of luck
@RandomUnsername Is the feeling of being unlovable mostly a men's issue? I mean I do hear of some women complaining of it, but it seems that mostly men gripe about it. Did we go somewhere wrong in society?
@Sheena123 I'm so happy for you, and very proud of you for being able to leave that awful first marriage. Some people lack the courage to move on. I've been told all along I lack confidence, that it's my biggest problem, it's the most important thing that women look for, that I need to improve it. But maybe my biggest problem is that there aren't more people like yourself in the world. I guess I can't change that though. What I can change is my confidence (slowly over time) and the amount of people I meet - maybe I'd be so lucky to find someone that accepts me as I am (and vice versa).
@sunnysideup that’s sweet to say. Thank you 😊 I figured I would say my story so it proves that love doesn’t always happen immediately. It could sometimes take almost 10 years like my situation. And no one should ever have to change who they are to make someone happy. If you can’t be who you are with someone, then they aren’t the one. I just wish I would have taught myself that at the beginning of the relationship as opposed to 8 years in 😣
@Bles: I don't understand why you would still experience loneliness given the scale of emotional and spiritual growth.
Maybe I was just lucky. 3 years before C-19 hit, I extracted myself from the society, said frak off to my career and started living just by myself after 20 years of marriage, moving cross country to the middle of nowhere where you don't know a single soul :-)
It took about 2 years till I stopped experiencing loneliness, but I am perfectly comfortable and happy living just by myself and do not require any external validation.
Sure, hugging is great if you can find a hug buddy that is at comparable state of spirituality, but I don't crave it anymore and most importantly its absence doesn't detract from my happiness in any way, shape or form.
@Sheena123 :
I just wish I would have taught myself that at the beginning of the relationship as opposed to 8 years in
Yeah, it would be great if we had the same life experience few decades earlier, and avoid the clusterf*ck relationships.
But then we wouldn't be able to appreciate the peace and serenity the way we do now.
It's only thanks to that emotional experience that we can set the boundaries and GTFO if SHTF. I have a very recent example - my exGF (from few yrs ago) has been harassing me daily last 2 months and begging to move in with her, but I most definitely prefer to be celibate than undergo that insanity again. I'm a different person than I was 3 years ago and I simply get up and leave at the earliest sign of abuse, because once you grow enough to be fully happy by yourself, you will not tolerate any cr*p from anybody.
That's easier to say than do, though :-)
If you're in such a bad place, it makes no sense to even attempt to approach anybody. Nobody is attracted to a lack of self-confidence, much less human females. It's an evolutionary step that transcends our species. Ever watched National geographic ? Who gets mating rights ?
Now, it's alright to temporarily mope around but be careful before it descends into negative feedback loop and before you know it, it consumes you.
Figure out sh*t that makes you happy and start doing it. You must break that negative feedback loop and turn it into positive feedback loop.
Few Examples from myself: 1. Sleeping enough makes me feel good (haven't done that ever, in my life, actually, till now) 2. Cooking my own food makes me feel good 3. Drinking my own coffee makes me feel good 4. Listening to any of 50 playlists on Spotify makes me feel good 5. Short gaming session makes me feel good 6. Building up my own company and its products makes me feel f*cking great 7. Taking a nap while listening to meditative music fills my soul 8. Playing with my Siberian Husky (chasing, belly rubs, hide&seek) makes me feel great 9. Walking up to 2 hours a day with my Husky is a very pleasant activity
I could list another 20 things I do on a daily basis that make me feel good, but you should get the point even with just those select few.
@sunnysideup
Is the feeling of being unlovable mostly a men's issue? I mean I do hear of some women complaining of it, but it seems that mostly men gripe about it.
If I had a dollar every time I heard a woman complain about this...
The problem [of the perceived notion that this is a men's issue on this site] is that most men are cretins. I know, I was such a cretin myself not so long ago. Each man that I know (and ever knew) subscribes to the theory that if you are friend-zoned, that's it.
But just because the two of you don't have sexual relations, doesn't mean she can't be a positive force in your life. Not every woman that friend-zoned you will enhance your life spiritually, that's not what I'm saying, of course. You always have to use a common sense, gauge the temperament and core values.
But I would strongly argue that it's much more preferable to have a dozen female friends than 0. Of course, only if you are emotionally and spiritually ready for this while keeping the boundaries without SIMPing.
@Siberian76 no they aren't. In general people are flawed but men are no more flawed than women. It absolutely is a societal issue. I have no idea what unrequited love has to do with being a bad person. If you are never given evidence that you are lovable you won't feel lovable. If society assumes that men only want distance from woman and that men only want unemotional sex then there won't be much discussion about how to deal with these problems. Men aren't seen as desirable, they're told that their worth is from what they can do for others. Men aren't taught to intrinsically value themselves. The feeling that no one wants you is a very easy trap to fall into and very hard to disprove.
A dozen female friends is great, a dozen friends who have uneven desires in the depth and closeness of the relationship is not. You need to have relationships where you feel like the other person wants you to be there. That won't happen if the other person is pushing you away.
I know, I was such a cretin _myself _not so long ago.
Just because you are having more success doesn't mean you have a healthier attitude towards life. You weren't a cretin if you just fell in love with people who didn't love you back. Your past self may have been misguided but not evil (or maybe he was evil, it wasn't because of that though).
@lonelybutmaybe
Men aren't seen as desirable, they're told that their worth is from what they can do for others. Men aren't taught to intrinsically value themselves
Agreed. I would urge every man to do a research on MGTOW for himself, as that doctrine summarizes core societal issues very nicely (you just gotta be careful not to take all MGTOW findings to heart, as easy as it might appear to be).
You need to have relationships where you feel like the other person wants you to be there. That won't happen if the other person is pushing you away
Of course, which is exactly why I said "keeping boundaries without SIMPing"
You weren't a cretin if you just fell in love with people who didn't love you back
Actually, I was, because I wasn't even _considering _friendships with women, as that's something that society deems impossible. Now, we could argue that 10 years ago I wasn't nowhere near emotionally ready for something like that (plus, I was in the middle of my marriage anyway).
But, today, I don't just hit on women. If I hear a deeper conversation, I will engage without any sexual undertones. I now know from my own experience that a friendship with a right woman can incredibly enhance your spirituality and you will grow a lot in a short period of time despite initial contact being purely platonic.
Yeah, i have heard of MGTOW. It isn't a healthy view. The real solution is therapy, a focus on mental health, and societal change. Not the belief that you don't need women.