A PSA if you’re planning to cuddle

MrPaulMrPaul
in General

I’ve been taking an online course at MIT that goes into great detail about the transmission of COVID-19, and I’d like to share a few things I’ve learned with everyone here who cares to read this.

Obviously, it is safest to not meet with anyone during this pandemic, especially now that many hospitals are at or near capacity. However, human nature being what it is, that is not realistic to expect.

So if you decide to meet another person, take steps to be as safe as possible. If you have lived in complete isolation from others for at least 10 days or more, you are probably ok. If you both tested negative and have not encountered anyone since taking the test, you are probably ok - but tests are not 100% accurate, remember that. Being asymptomatic is not sufficient, as 40 to 80 percent of cases are asymptomatic and contagious.

Aerosols are a primary mode of transmission. Assuming you are wearing a mask, physical distancing has a small effect in closed rooms, as aerosols tend to mix well in the room and are distributed more or less evenly.

Here are some tips.

  1. Wear an N95 or better mask, if you can get one, and have your partner do the same. Assuming you’re BOTH wearing the SAME grade of masks, the effective reduction in virus transmission rate is about 10x for a single layer cotton mask, 100x for a triple layer surgical mask, and 1000x for an N95. Make sure it fits well. It can be uncomfortable, but your respiration rate will be low if you’re lying down cuddling, so it’s not that bad.

  2. Increase outdoor air ventilation through the room. If you can cuddle outside, do so. If not, crack a window - the more fresh air exchange the better. This helps to prevent the build up of contagious aerosols in the room. If you can, maintain 60-80% relative humidity in the room, that kills the airborne virus the fastest.

  3. Don’t talk too loudly. Your production rate of aerosols increases when you increase your volume, so remain quiet, speak softly or whisper.

  4. Limit your exposure time. This is more of a factor indoors, as aerosol concentration increases in a room over time.

  5. Change into pajamas or your choice of cuddling clothes before cuddling. Change out of them after, so you’re not wearing potentially contaminated clothing for the rest of the day. The same goes for sheets or blankets that were used. Wash the cuddling clothes after.

I’m only part way through the course, so I’ll provide more tips if I learn more worth sharing.

  1. Are you planning to cuddle during the pandemic?72 votes
    1. Yes
      62.50%
    2. No
        9.72%
    3. Maybe
      27.78%
«1

Comments

  • bigbluebigblue

    so this will officially constitute my first forum post on this site.." N95 mask or better"...so what is better than an N95 mask?

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @bigblue Duct tape

  • [Deleted User]cualtzin (deleted user)

    @FunCartel 😂

    Seriously, though, N99 & N100. P99 & P100. Plus the stuff my dad makes, which has no certification, other than my stamp of approval. N95 is really more of a baseline mask, very plentiful and cheap in pre-COVID times.

  • xandriarainxandriarain

    N95 masks are impossible to get these days unless you are a medical professional. Also from experience they are really hard to breathe in for extended sessions I had to end the session early because it was so hard to breathe. But I would like to know is what the best UV room sanitizers are preferably one that doesn’t have any kind of ozones Because my cuddling office doesn’t have any windows and all I have is a HEPA air purifier and I don’t wanna have to wait a long time before coming back in the room.

  • CatloafCatloaf

    I’ve given up my practise for at least the next year and have already been on a 1+ year hiatus. But it just doesn’t make sense for me to take the risk, or encourage being in close proximity of strangers during this time, if I can help it.

    Godspeed to anyone who has decided to get their needs for touch met during this pandemic, or to continue offering services if they are pro.

    Stay safe, sane, and healthy.

  • MrPaulMrPaul

    @xandriarain A room sanitizer such as a HEPA filter or UV light is only as effective as the least effective mask, a 10x improvement at best. Even if a filter is 100% effective at removing viral particles, because it only captures a percentage of total air in the room it has an upper limit of effectiveness. Aerosols that are exhaled mix with all the air in the room so most viral particles will not be captured by the filter, they drift around it. A quality HEPA or UV sanitizer will help, but it is far less effective than quality masks worn by all in the room.

  • Sheena123Sheena123

    @Catloaf hey! Miss you chicky!!

  • MaullySterlingMaullySterling

    xandriarain

    They were, briefly, but you can get them by the box for slightly more than surgical masks, now.

    My workplace gives me a new one, each day. 2 if I'm being diligent

  • FlyingToasterFlyingToaster
    edited December 2020

    @bigblue

    ...so what is better than an N95 mask?

    @cualtzin It's good to know the types of masks available.

    Also, I've heard cloth masks don't really provide good enough protection - and I've seen a lot of people wearing those..

  • Rocket_ManRocket_Man

    I have something to say but i am not going too.

  • JasonCuddlesJasonCuddles

    @Catloaf Oh hey. I was surprised to see you posting on the forums again.

  • xandriarainxandriarain

    Mr. Paul I plan to utilize both a UV sanitizer and a Hepa filter but have been struggling to find the right UV sanitizer. I always offer masks but most of my clients don’t want to have masks during a cuddle session at this point I just have no other option since I have to earn a living.

  • Mike403Mike403

  • MrPaulMrPaul

    @xandriarain
    We are all doing the best we can.

    I encourage you to request that your clients please at least wear a surgical mask, out of respect for you and your health. If they refuse you should ask why they do not want to protect you or themselves with such an easy thing as a mask.

    Where I live, the governor has made it mandatory to wear a mask when you are in the presence of someone not in your immediate household. The CDC now recommends people to wear masks inside their own homes to protect other family members. This makes sense especially if they routinely go to work in public, out shopping or encounter others, and if they have vulnerable persons in their household.

    I have cuddled wearing a surgical mask with my cuddle partners doing the same and it was not a problem at all. We have mutual respect for each other, and value our health.

    At this moment the pandemic has gotten much worse than ever before. I have postponed my cuddle activity, but it’s not my or my cuddle partners’ livelihood. It is a difficult time to be in a business where you need to be so close to your clients. I wish you the best.

  • MrPaulMrPaul

    @Mike403
    Kudos to SNL! Thanks for posting that!

  • sunnysideupsunnysideup

    Hmm, maybe a recent negative test should be required? Though, it doesn't say anything about what the person was exposed to in the time between the test and the cuddle session.

    Stay safe everyone!

  • livinlifelivinlife

    Speechless. Absolutely speechless. Well, and disappointed. Wow.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @livinlife Speechless? Did you have a tracheotomy or would you care to elaborate?

  • cookiecrumbcookiecrumb

    Study by the New England Journal of Medicine does not support this information.
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2029717
    Also, for a simpler analysis based on age, not including other factors (like other existing conditions):
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html
    Survivability of of COVID is generally very high. Heart disease is still America's #1 killer. But no one is trying to make you change your diet or exercise. Everyone is different and has different risk factors. One size does not fit all. There is a MASSIVE difference between the risk of transmission and the risk of harm or the effect of a disease. The fact that most people who contract COVID are asymptomatic indicates that the risk of the disease to most people is LOW! So please, exercise normal hygiene. Be smart about your risk factors. Be sensitive to others. But please don't propogandise me.

  • HollydollhugsHollydollhugs

    What about an Ozone generator? It purifies 1000 sq in 20 minutes. Also safe for the environment. Just a thought.

  • MrPaulMrPaul

    @cookiecrumb
    I just read the NEJM military study you cited and I should revise my statement to say that you are probably NOT ok if you quarantine for 10 days. My statement was based on CDC revised quarantine recommendations issued within the last week. Per the military study, a 14 day quarantine protocol was not effective in preventing outbreaks. Either that, or some of the recruits were not truthful about adherence to strict quarantine prior to arrival at the study location, which is highly likely.

    I agree that 40 to 80 percent of cases are asymptomatic, and that’s good for them but bad for the other 20 to 60 percent that suffer for months, lose sense of taste and smell, develop other serious complications, or die.

    One of the hallmarks of propaganda is that it is misleading and political. When I learned about the aerosol transmission risks I wanted to share it so that others could benefit. I don’t have any agenda, I just want this pandemic to end as quickly as possible so we can go back to living normal lives.

  • pmvinespmvines
    edited December 2020

    @cookiecrumb yes heart disease kills more people . Thats beside the point cus you can't transmit heart disease to one another. you can transmit covid and the ones who do get sick get really sick and some continue to have symptoms way after the fact . I know because I work in a hospital with covid patients. I have seen people in their 30s 40s.and 50s.on ventilators and dying in the ICU. And I am sending a lot of people home on oxygen who have never even had to use an inhaler or anything else to help them breathe . You truly have no way of knowing how you will respond if you get it or how it affects others if you pass it along . The reason most people are ad cautious as they are is due to.duty to.not become a carrier and inadvertently severely impact the health or life of others. Cant do that with heart disease now can you ?

  • MrPaulMrPaul

    @Tranquilescape
    As far as I know, airborne ozone gas is not effective against a virus, at least not in the concentration that would be safe for human consumption. Ozone in high concentrations is toxic.

    The things I can recommend are wearing the best masks you can get and ventilating the room by opening all the windows.

  • Mike403Mike403

    @pmvines - I think you meant to tag @cookiecrumb .

  • sunnysideupsunnysideup
    edited December 2020

    @tranquilescape I thought ozone was supposed to be toxic for humans though? And you had to wait for the ozone to dissipate or whatever before you can reuse the room?

    @MrPaul Appreciate the spread of knowledge.

    @cookiecrumb Heart disease is the #1 killer because as humans, we have to die of something. If a a vital organ fails, we will die. That tends be the heart and that goes for most of the world (heart disease is the world's number one killer). Yes, no one is forcing us to eat better or workout, but heart disease is not contagious.

    I don't like that businesses are struggling and closing, and many are out of a job. I don't like how mental or physical health is on the decline due to isolation. I'm not saying that everyone should hole up, but this pandemic is something we have to take seriously if we want to protect the vulnerable 20 to 60 percent and for this thing to be under control sooner. Countries like Italy have warned us that if we didn't take it seriously, we would suffer as badly as them.

    To all those cuddling during this time, stay safe!

  • pmvinespmvines

    Thanks @Mike403 I changed it

  • Mike403Mike403

    U2 snuck their new album into each COVID vaccine.

  • cookiecrumbcookiecrumb

    You're so right: heart disease is not contagious. I'm not talking about the transmission of heart disease, I'm talking about the awareness of heart disease, the hype, if you will. Cancer is the number 2 killer. That hype has gone. No one had this hype for SARS, for west nile, for EEE, for swine flu, for ebola, and ebola is WAY more deadly. What I'm saying is, it's not about COVID. It's about people control. And I don't want Governor Lamonte, @MrPaul, Donald Trump, or Joe Biden telling me what I should or should not do in my own home. How many people I should have in my home, or how loud I should keep the music, or how loudly I should talk, or how much I should talk in my own home. There are some people who choose not to cuddle with people right now. I respect that; I will not make them feel badly or guilty for their decision, because I believe they have the freedom to choose that for themselves. And I want that for myself, the freedom to conduct myself and my guests as we desire in my own home. I will not invite someone to my house and make them uncomfortable, nor will I go to someone else's house and make them uncomfortable. But @MrPaul and any other political hack is trying to tell me how loudly or softly I should speak, because they are exercising intellectual elitism. I grant that @MrPaul acknowledged the truth of the study by the New England Journal of Medicine: that quarantines are ineffective and masks are ineffective. There are 30 million cases worldwide and we have tons of data based on national policies and international information to glean from. Whatever information you decide to buy into is up to you. But no one has any right to tell anyone what to do in their own home. The volume of your voice - unbelievable! If I met with someone who used an air filtration device whether it was a machine in their house or a face mask, I respect that, because I respect their freedom. If I invite someone to my house and they want me to wear a mask, I have the freedom to decide if I value their concern more than my desire to experience a moment inside their personal space. But MIT does not have a monopoly on facts, nor does any politician. In the marketplace of ideas, everyone has the freedom to decide what they believe, whether or not it is true. And whether or not it is true has zero bearing on the freedom our neighbors get to exercise in that same marketplace. And on a personal level, if you decide to spend time with me, you can be as quiet or as loud as you want.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    If you do not want to be told any of that then why would you inject yourself into that kind of thread to tell everyone what you do not want to be told?

    rubbing my temples and smh

  • MrPaulMrPaul

    @cookiecrumb
    I’m not telling anyone what to do. I’m informing about what I have learned based on the information I have found that makes sense to me with respect to sound application of chemistry and physics. For example, speaking loudly vs. softy makes total sense to me with respect to the number of particles exhaled. You can do whatever you want with the information, follow it, ignore it, refute it with facts, or do the complete opposite of my suggestions.

    I personally would love to read a study that says “it’s safe to cuddle if you do x, y and z.” I like to hear information that contradicts what I have previously been told, so that I can review it and make changes to my way of life if it makes sense to do so. I used to believe that drinking milk contributed to strong bones until I learned the opposite.

    You can call me a political hack, or a propaganda spreader, or an intellectual elitist or any name you want if it makes you feel better. I does hurt me to read those words attributed to me, as that is not my intention to come off that way, and maybe I’m not aware of how it sounds. Thanks for calling me out on that because I appreciate the honest feedback.

    Like you, I value individual freedom. I also value and have compassion for the lives of my fellow humans and the other species we share this planet with, including the ones who disagree or dislike me. I’m willing to put my desire for personal freedom and comfort aside for the sake of the health of those around me, that’s my personal choice.

    If you had a friend or family member who was doing something that could injure themselves or others, but who didn’t know that the activity was as potentially dangerous as you had learned, would you tell them or remain silent?

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