...I was born for this moment.
so you are a pro vaxer that belives [sic] in censorship instead of free speech?
Try shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater with no fire in it and see how far your free speech gets you. You say there is a fire? The fire department disagrees... so, of course, you claim that the fire department is corrupt. Must be rough living with beliefs like that.
are you part of Big Pharma?
"Are you part of Big Fire?" We all see how silly this sounds: it's taking a helpful thing (like the fire department) and making it sound big and scary (lots of interconnected fire departments! what are they planning? who knows! surely their actions will not benefit us, the people whose fires they're always putting out)!
Can you explain why Phizer [note: Pfizer] rescind[ed] their application when India told them that they had to prove that their vaccine is safe?
According to The Indian Express, India turned down Pfizer's application when bad things were reported as happening to some of the Indian folks who took their vaccine during local trials, and they didn't know whether it was because of the vaccine or not. So Pfizer withdrew their application and went to do more tests.
Can you explain the deaths , bells palsey , autoimume blood diseases , severe allergic reactions to the different corona virus vaccines?
...Explain them? Uh... where are they? Difficult to explain the existence of something that doesn't exist, dontcha know.
Can you explain why people have won law suits against vaccine companies?
Yes! Because sometimes some vaccine companies are corrupt, sometimes litigious folks have good lawyers, and sometimes it's easier to just pay some money than get dragged into a whole thing.
Can you explain why I received brain damage from a vaccine?
Ooh. I.... Quite honestly, I can't even verify that that wasn't a preexisting condition.
Can you explain why the Phizer [note: Pfizer] & Moderna vaccines are new vaccines that were created and approved in less than a year.
Yes! While Covid-19 is a novel coronavirus, R&D work on a vaccine for coronaviruses in general started long before 2019. You can read an article on the timeline of development for Covid-19 vaccines by clicking this very sentence right here.
Can you explain why people are being used as human guinea pigs?
Yes! Because we've reached the human trials stage of development. Reading the Wikipedia page on phases of clinical research will give you further details in this area.
Can you explain why we have an immune system and things to boost are [sic] immune system naturally when people use vaccines?
Can you explain why we have eyes and things like carrot juice to boost our vision naturally when people use glasses?
...Ooh. Even I'm getting tired. Time to post and see what else has been going on in the forums, I guess.
I can come back to this later!
@DarrenWalker Holy shit! You were born for this! I live!
It's got to be hard sometimes being that logical in an illogical world. Either that or just fun sometimes to have so many opportunities to do what you were born for.
Nicely done @DarrenWalker.
@squeakytoy: [bows] Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all night. And yeah, @littermate... it's a mixed blessing.
Onward!
Can you explain why we donate and receive blood , plasma , organs but we dont [sic] donate and receive antibodies instead of vaccines.
A simple Google search answers this question! "When pathogens (germs) are introduced into your body from a vaccine or a disease, your body learns to target those germs in the future by making new antibodies. Antibodies from another person can also help your body fight an infection – but this type of immunity is temporary."
In short: donated antibodies don't stick around long at all. Better to teach your own body how to make those little suckers.
Can you explain why people that got measles , rubella , mumps , chicken pox [sic] ETC naturally with out [sic] getting vaccines are perfectly healthy human beings?
Measles does long-term damage to the immune system. Rubella can cause arthritis and brain infections. Mumps can, sometimes, cause infertility. We all know chickenpox can cause horrible scarring, but did you know it can also cause inflammation of the brain? And, of course, death. Death is a thing that sometimes happens to people who come down with these things.
TL;DR: The dead ones sure aren't healthy, and the survivors may not be as healthy as you think either.
Can you explain why people that died from diseases in the past but when they get any of those very same diseases today not only dont [sic] die but live perfectly healthy lives with out [sic] getting a vaccine for that disease.
...Uh. People who died from diseases in the past aren't getting any diseases today. On account of they're dead.
The people these days who come down with rotavirus infections, say, can often be saved now thanks to advances in medical technology. Do they live perfectly healthy lives afterwards? Ahaha. Not if they die—and, believe it or not, some of them do. Even modern science can't save everyone. Best to not risk that particular death at all, say I.
Can you explain why people have to get flu and pneumonia vaccines every single year when there are treatments for the flu and pneumonia and there are ways to make the flu and pneumonia less severe?
I can! It's because these dang viruses keep mutating, so we have to teach our bodies to fight different strains all the dang time.
As for the second half of the question: why go to the trouble of not bashing your fingers with a hammer when you've got perfectly good painkillers in the cabinet? And bashing your fingers with a hammer isn't even contagious.
Can you guarantee that people wont [sic] have to get a corona virus [sic] vaccine every year for the rest of their lives?
Dude, I can't even guarantee that the sun won't explode tomorrow. Doesn't seem likely! But if, somehow, that's what happens... well, hey. At least it's better than millions of people dying every year who would've lived otherwise.
I need another break, I think. But this is coming along well!
Very well! Not only educational, but simultaneously quite entertaining. I thank you for these late night chuckles. Teddy and I are on the edge of our seats for the next installment.
If I'd had you for high school physics, things might have gone better for me.
Thanks, @littermate! I like being educational and entertaining.
I saw a thing for the cow pox [sic] vaccine for small pox [sic].This process for this vaccine that I saw was that people were taking cow pox [sic] directly from cows that had cow pox [sic] and injecting people with it.Nothing else was added to the vaccine[,] and the people that were injected with that vaccine were immune to small pox [sic].
Are you referring to the early smallpox vaccine developed by Dr. Jenner in 1796?
Sticking a weaker form of smallpox (i.e., cowpox) into people did teach their bodies how to create the crucial antibodies. It also sometimes killed them—but weaker illnesses tend not to kill as many people as stronger ones do, and since surviving the weak one taught your body how to fight off the strong one... well.
On balance, one person dead of cowpox (out of a hundred sick with it) is way better than fifteen dead of smallpox (out of a hundred sick with that).
Vaccines got better from there.
If vaccines only contained dead or weakened or other viruses that were less serious than [sic] I would trust and get vaccines. Can you explain why poisons , toxins , chemicals , carcinogens , allergens like [m]ercury , [e]mbalming fluid ETC are put in vaccines instead of just dead or weaken[ed] or other less serious viruses by themselves?
If vaccines only contained dead or weakened or other viruses that were less serious than [sic] I would trust and get vaccines.
Can you explain why poisons , toxins , chemicals , carcinogens , allergens like [m]ercury , [e]mbalming fluid ETC are put in vaccines instead of just dead or weaken[ed] or other less serious viruses by themselves?
A quick Google search answers this question as well!
The type of mercury found in Thimerosal (used to keep stuff you don't want in the vaccine from growing in there... stuff like mold, for instance) isn't the especially poisonous type. Yes, that's right! There are different types of mercury. Methylmercury sucks. (Eat too much fish and find out.) Ethylmercury is a lot easier for your body to get rid of. Especially in the ridiculously small doses you get from a vaccine that uses Thimerosal.
Formaldehyde, now—our bodies produce that naturally. Not a lot of it! But some. In fact, according to the FDA, there's 50 to 70 times more formaldehyde present in an average newborn's body than in a single dose of vaccine. Wild, right?
Basically, all the stuff in there is meant to keep the vaccine good, stop you from getting too sick, help your immune system do its best—and not hurt you. That's the goal, anyway!
One of the great things about science is that there's always room for improvement. Vaccines will get even better, just you watch.
Can you explain the need to silence , censor , cancel culture in a democracy or republic[an] society the land of the free with freedoms and rights when we all are adults with minds of our own and free will when we can do are [sic] own research?
As far as I know, nobody's silencing, censoring, or canceling anyone's culture.
Note, however, that this is not the land of the free and the home of the brave! This is an internet website... and one created and run by a Brit, at that. He has a right to decide what gets paraded across his own internet lawn and what doesn't.
That said, even in America there are limits to a person's rights. Where does your right to freedom go when you run someone down with your car? Where does your right to free speech go when you tell someone to do something that will harm them and those around them?
And, uh.
I don't see you doing your own research.
Can you explain what pro vaxers are really afraid of besides getting diseases , illnesses , ailments , getting sick of course? [B]ecause I know its [sic] more than that is it not or there would be no need to silence , censor , cancel culture in a free country?
...You do know there's more than one country, right?
Well. Let's examine what vaccines do for public health, shall we? (Although, come to think of it, that link may be a little too heavy on the intellectualism for some folks. What's a simpler way of putting it? Ah, I know.)
See? Vaccines don't just protect the people getting them. If enough people get vaccinated, they protect even the folks who can't be vaccinated! But if most people decide to go ahead and carry that virus everywhere (because hey, they'll probably recover, right?) there goes Grandma. Do you really have to be afraid of anything more than that? Is there anything more precious than human lives? Probably not to humans!
They just don't want people to die. That's what they're afraid of.
Whew! Okay, one more break.
Can you explain why our founding fore fathers [sic] not only made the freedom of speech the very first amendment but also listed it first over all of the other freedoms and rights emphasizing the importance of the freedom of speech over all of the other first amendment freedoms and rights?
Noting once again that US laws and amendments maybe don't mean too much on a website from another country. Yes. There is more than one country. Welcome to the outside of the box.
Anyway.
If you actually read the First Amendment, you'll see that it starts like so: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
That was the very first amendment. Listed first over all the other First Amendment freedoms and rights and what-have-you.
Freedom of religion.
Who would've guessed.
Is it not because our founding fathers felt that the freedom of speech is the most important freedom , right in the whole entire constitution?
It is not.
One final question[:] can you tell us about Merck's corona virus [sic] treatment program and its progress[? N]ow this is something that may interest me.Or does anyone even know about any of this?
Merck! Yes. This pharmaceutical company (maybe better known as MSD?) didn't do too well with the vaccine they were trying to develop, so they switched to symptom management. A good move! Until herd immunity is achieved, people are still going to come down with Covid. If Pfizer and Moderna can keep people from getting sick at all, while Merck stops the ones that are already sick from dying, that'd be great.
And I'm done!
@DarrenWalker that's an amazing job, thank you. Every question answered. Answered with kindness, and care, and wit.
(And a startling number of them answered by a quick look at google or wikipedia.)
@BryC I hope you read all that and reflect on it. DarrenWalker has done you an enormous favour.
@DarrenWalker Agreed with @CuddleDuncan ! This is SO good. Any time an antivaxxer comes in here, this should be the FAQ we direct them to.
I do have a feeling it'll fall on deaf ears most of the time, which is a shame, but it's still worth a shot
Thanks, @CuddleDuncan, @squeakytoy, @littermate! I like it when my natural tendency to dissect things and analyze them a piece at a time turns out to be actually useful. It may be rare, but when it happens it's glorious.
And I had fun!
I just got my 1st. shot, went very well, the lady did a great job, could barley feel the needle and I HATE any needles, no tats on me, LOL. The area on my arm was a little tender for a few hours, no other problems. I have several friends & family in the medical field and they all got the shots with no big issues, one did say they were just plain over tired for about 12 hours.
You guys are all reminding me, I've at least gotta get my flu shot - I'm really late with it this year
@Davebutton- Immediately! Your life is at danger, seriously. Anyone with a pre-existing condition is prone to severe consequences, far more likely to have permanent covid damage. And far more likely to die on a ventilator. Especially with anything that has previously damaged the lungs. Always check with your physician first. I have a pre-existing condition, even though years ago, covered under New York State guidelines & got both Phizer shots. Forget about "side effects"- see my initial post covering short term after-affects some may feel. Unless physician says otherwise, you're at extreme risk without vaccine. Get it ASAP my friend!
I find it funny when people make the claim of "free speech". That only applies to the government, not private businesses.
An fyi for all. Having initiated this forum felt it important to state I have never worked or have had any ties to what some call big pharma. I have always worked in a large university based hospital.
I'm also well versed in vaccine history & have great sympathy for any affected group who suffered under government, pharmaceutical, or socially accepted drug dependency earlier in American history. Those days are long gone but will understandably have an affect on current perceptions.
Also very much aware of & sympathetic for those who have suffered under current opioid medication/addiction problem which has complicated roots in industry & government.
My sister lives next to a nurse. The nurse came to her house and told her not to get the Pfizer vaccine that it is experimental. You could be getting a placebo and not know it. She said to wait for the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, that it would be safer. That is what I am doing. You still have to wear mask and still have to social distance. I also saw that this will be seasonal like the flu.
@Tranquilescape That nurse is confusing clinical trials with the actual vaccine. There are no placebos for Pete’s sake. Was she a part of a clinical trial? The results coming back from areas around the world that are receiving the vaccine in high proportions of the population are the vaccine is working. That nurse should be ashamed for spreading misinformation.
@FunCartel i don’t know why she would have. She mainly mentioned waiting for the latter vaccine.
How easily sheep are led to the slaughter.
@Snuggly82 Ok, I will bite. Who are the sheep?
@DarrenWalker I just read all of your responses to BryC. Very impressive talent you have. I am sure he has no clue that he has just been eaten alive.
@DarrenWalker I continue to enjoy the heck out of you.
@Mmart he has no clue because he is in time out for five days. Like a temporary ban.
@Tranquilescape, Research led by Public Health Scotland found at four weeks after the first dose, hospital admissions were reduced by 85% and 94% for the Pfizer and AstraZeneca jabs respectively. In Scotland, obviously. Note that the makers of the vaccines were not involved in this study. It's only a limited study but the result is pretty spectacular.
Second doses have not yet been given, as a policy decision. The UK decided to leave a gap of 12 weeks between first and second dose in order to give as many people as possible some protection.
BBC news story https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56153600
Public Health Scotland press release https://publichealthscotland.scot/news/2021/february/vaccine-linked-to-reduction-in-risk-of-covid-19-admissions-to-hospitals/
Preprint paper at The Lancet https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3789264 (The whole paper is available as a free pdf.)
Working out whether the increased risk of waiting for a vaccine believed to be better involves predicting the future (always a tricky business), probability and calculus. Given that the overall efficacies of the vaccines are known to be broadly similar in general, and unknown in detail, waiting for a different one is most likely to be mildly dangerous.
Humans tend to underestimate the risk of doing nothing, or delaying a decision.
I now live in a mixture of fear and hope that @DarrenWalker will dissect this vaccine post. 🙄
So, I see that the "moderator" determines what is disinformation and what is not. Smh.
I love our moderators here! Honestly, I wish more websites would give people a time out for spreading misinformation. So excited to get my 2nd dose of the Moderna vaccine on Friday! 🥳
Why do people call vaxers sheep when they're the ones following random internet memes and YouTube conspiracy videos? What does that make them?
So, I see that the "moderator" determines what is disinformation and what is not.
No, that is not correct. A wide range of organisations and people are involved, including for example the Board of Governors of the BBC and the editors of The Lancet. The moderators of this site are not involved at all.
@Mike403 It's an example of what is sometimes called 'projection' in psychology. It is a form of denial, when one person assigns to another a negative quality or behaviour that they themselves have.
Liers accuse others of lying. Drama is never the fault of the drama queen, but somebody else. The one who throws around the most accusations of bitchiness is the bitch.
In other words, if you go around accusing people of being 'sheep' you might be right. But you should reflect seriously on the possibility that you are the sheep.
@livinlife disinformation is determined by what is factual and what is not. If it is not factual and the intent is to attempt to spread fear and lies based off of lies and conspiracy theories , for example something like foreign countries working with US political allies.and companies to fixi voting machines to make it where a certain candidate wins henceforth "stealing" an election when it is indeed won as a result of people actually not voting.for them as evidenced by zero proof provided to back up the rhetoric and accusations , then it is disinformation. That is not, again, determined by the moderators.
Getting vaccinated tomorrow. I will let you know if I die from it.