They were underground for 10 yrs by your definition. They don't retroactively lose that, after having broken in the States.
I'm not sure where you think I'm wrong? Could you explain this?
@MaullySterling - You stated, "Siouxsie and the Banshees was NOT mainstream in any sense." I'm saying that's not entirely true by U.S. college radio (or by The College Music Journal) standards. Yes, you are correct about them being underground up until they broke. But they did go mainstream.
I did say that they DID go mainstream, and specifically stated what pushed them over the edge.
I still don't see where you think I'm wrong?
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Threesomes??? Where did you read that? I missed something.
Sometimes we see what we want to see, @Torin
How many threads are there here on goths am I missing something?
@FunCartel @pmvines You are both gold!
To be fair, reddit. You're just looking for a car crash to gawk at, (or get in on), if you're there.
With music, though, it evolves as time passes. So while one person's perspective is valid, once time passes, it no longer is, if you don't evolve with it. It's a timeline.
If by nitpicking, you're referring to the statement "we don't like to be called goth", then 2 of us said we're out and proud, and a few other were "yay, my ppl" ... Well that's not nitpicking. That's just getting called on speaking for others. Rest assured, there are others here that don't want to be called goth, but they won't out themselves to agree with you.
@I_Am_Not_A_Cat Are you sure you're not a cat? I just read you, again, and you look like you may have 9 lives
@Torin Discussing/debating musical history in a thread is fine, but there better not be any talk of threesomes here!!
Well, unless it's referring to a three-way cuddle.
I read this thread as “why are there so many goths there” and this is what immediately came to mind. (TW: Foul Language in rap music)
PS. There are many different types of goths and I don’t think I’ve come across one here yet. These ones in the video are called cybergoths...IDK why the word emo is in there but eh.
I want to change the thread title to why is their so much goth debate
@Catloaf Fun, but not the music from the original video. And this was way before COVID, so masks weren't a thing, except as an esthetic
@pmvines There is debate in all groups and communities.
@MaullySterling Yes, that’s why this particular video was chosen. Because in what universe are cybergoths going to dance to Future? 🤪😁
Oh! I just read "mask off emo kids", watched here, not on the original, with comments. And, don't know the music that's played, here
@MaullySterling - I see what you are saying. Siouxsie and the Banchees were in fact underground for the first 12 years of their career and only went mainstream during the end of their popularity.
I am a little confused. The song "Kiss Them For Me" was their lone Top 40 single in the U.S. I can't seem to associate a film in which this single appeared. However, after KTFM they were asked to pen a song for Tim Burton's "Batman Returns" and they came up with "Face to Face." Was "Kiss Them For Me" featured in a film?
@FunCartel I know . I just wanted an excuse to say goth debate
I've hardly notice any goths on here... seems to be a little more than in normal life though. But a lot of goths don't dress goth typically, so they may just be presenting more here because they don't have to be distracted by stares, or feel they'll get less ostracization here.
But then maybe what you consider goth is broader than what I do. I've been involved in the local goth community off and on for years, though it's not my top cultural preference.
I always enjoy seeing and hearing goth though, even the multi-color ones 😁 (I'm not talking about skin haha). I have lines of consideration where I'm like "c'mon that's rave or bubblegum cosplay" where people will call it goth... but you won't even catch me dead saying "that's not goth enough" haha
@PeopleLikeUs Nah. I could tell you, but you'd tell me I'm wrong, paraphrase me, and present it as your own thought / idea.
Play that game without me
@davebutton Point taken.
@sage_wisdom Love your response!
One thing I genuinely, absolutely hate about music is people gatekeeping a subculture or genre.
What I mean by that is someone saying 'If you're a goth, name every single from Depeche Mode' or 'What is Siouxie Sioux' brother's uncle's dog's blood type, because if you don't know that, yOu'Re nOt A gOtH'
Like, you don't have to be fanatical to be a fan. You don't have to have heard everything by a band or heard every seminal band within the genre to be able to affiliate yourself with the genre.
I used to wear Nightwish, HIM and Cradle of Filth t-shirts to work because I liked maybe one song from them, or the artwork was cool, or whatever. Sometimes if I went to a charity shop and there was a band tshirt my size I liked, I'd get it, even if I hadn't even heard of the band itself, let alone heard anything by them.
The best feeling in the world is watching some guy's eyes pop halfway out of his head, as he goes puce in the face, apoplectic with rage, as you nonchalantly admit you have no idea whose merch you are currently wearing.
Annoying people and wreaking havoc is subcultural culture at its finest.
I don’t disagree about subculture or any groups for that matter producing snobbery, hate and ridicule. Right here in the forums they had to come up with new rules about not starting threads that are exclusive to any other members because of the level of invective thrown around and the divisiveness it created.
@davebutton Very valid first point. I feel goth on the inside, business on the outside.
On a side note, hope everyone is having a great day!!!
@BuggleBear Oh man, I can think of one thing worse than gatekeeping. When people try to gatekeep but they get everything wrong - they correct you incorrectly, because they don't know what they don't know. That drives me insane
@BuggleBear what if you believe that both you AND the world are completely f***Ed up? Then are you emo or goth?
Then, you are a Realist!
@BuggleBear I like that fandom, since it increases my access, by default.
@FunCartel Yeah, that was awkward, and not why I had engaged
I'm a goth cucumber!
@MaullySterling Lol. A very accurate definition.