@Babichev It’s true men should listen and think about things before responding, but telling them to shut up is really rude. I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if men said women should shut up if men are telling you their experiences. It’s I’ll mannered. If you think the men are being ill mannered and rude, acting the same way doesn’t get you anywhere. Because you catch more flies with honey. You really think those men that who don’t get it will take kindly, no they will just write you off and then continue with the way they are. And none of this has anything to do with how women are treated. Yes men might be trying For more when they don’t know you and bring up massage right away. Many people believe this make or female. But let’s remain civil. I mean these forums can be informative and could help change people’s minds no?
@Babichev I must say that I have had the same experience with this. I’ve allowed it and within seconds I can sense their arousal and then hands begin wandering to non-platonic places. I see it as a boundary test at best and attempt at seduction if it continues. If it’s to stay platonic, massage is better left to the pros who have licenses they can lose if they cross boundaries. Asking to give me one on this site is a red flag now, also due to experiences with so many guys using it to push boundaries and “innocently” sexualize the contact. And the worst part is it puts all the boundary setting on us. It’s not our job to have to keep drawing and holding the line.
Also….Nailed it.
The thing I keep coming back to over and over again is that most of the men I encounter on this site . . . are focused on getting what they want and don’t seem to think about what the experience is like from a woman’s point of view. A total stranger wants us to get together with them, without taking the time to get to know us, and put ourselves in a very vulnerable and intimate situation with them, and then on top of it they want to put their hands all over us? Uh, no. Not going to happen. If you want a massage, book an appointment with a massage therapist. If you want an instant cuddle partner, book an appointment with a pro. And if you really just like giving massage, there’s probably someone in your life who works hard who would love a foot massage, like maybe that elderly aunt who worked on her feet all her life.
@squeakytoy All those gifs are hysterical. 🤣
Def be careful with that - bc majority are offering massages in hopes to get you nude OR to get cheap feels. SMH. I just say no thanks to massages all around to avoid certain situations. I am learning with each session what to not allow and it is perfectly fine for you to say no to anything that you didn't sign up nor discuss with the client.
I put forth that people are spectacularly good at liking things and offending others in pursuit of said likes. Rarely is it fully malicious but psychopaths exist who enjoy making others uncomfortable, but more usually it is a combination of lack of respect, overeagerness, tactlessness, lack of proper communication, and sometimes attempting to be polite but failing or misinterpretation of signals. (I think most of us have met someone in our lives that tries hard, but just annoys the tar out of others).
I believe that most will agree that massages where one person lays on a table where another person manipulates their bodies for relaxation or stimulation isn’t cuddling.
They aren’t the same thing, I may like apples and I may like oranges. But, I rarely go to apple orchards to buy oranges. Some restaurants don’t mind going “off menu”, such as you can politely acknowledge that the establishment doesn’t usually offer hamburgers, but if asked will sometimes make one if they are willing. That is the prerogative of the restaurant. Many places do not go off menu, because they enjoy what they offer.
Asking someone to massage you or vice Versa is absolutely going off menu. Too many people make the wrong assumption that because one person has ever gone off menu, all people are obligated to go off menu. Or, if you have bought an orange at an apple orchard, all apple orchards sell oranges.
In an unrelated businesses, I was approached repeatedly by an individual who wanted something commissioned, even when it was made explicitly clear that was not something advertised, I did not want to do that, nor could I at standards I found acceptable without compromising my other work. I did appreciate that they wanted my work as opposed to other alternatives, but I explained their options, and they wanted what they wanted. I repeatedly declined, eventually they told me they were boycotting me for not doing what they wanted. I was glad to hear that, since my goal is providing good work for my clients, under my terms.
Repeatedly being asked for things by multiple people that you don’t want to do is taxing. Especially when asked in a fashion that shows that the individual doesn’t know or care anything about you, only what they want. If it is annoying in the business setting, and infinitely moreso in a casual enjoyment.
Giving massages is something some people enjoy doing. But not everyone likes them, and requires trust to enjoy. They can be platonic, but more often is a preamble to other activities. The offer of a massage is off menu, requires trust, and often is used as a gateway towards other things, and rather difficult to determine someone’s motivations without built a understanding communication first.
Adding in that people can rapid fire off requests anonymously, there comes a point of frustration and annoyance at being asked to do (or receive) things they simply don’t want from people who don’t care about them as individuals.
Generalizations are just that, but there are many more males here than females. Even if a small but significant fraction of males rapid fire requests to females in an insensitive fashion, very quickly females who come to a place to cuddle will become annoyed and resentful towards those individuals, making it harder for them to enjoy the company of genuine individuals who strive to have platonic, reciprocating cuddling experiences.
I am not going to even broach safety issues, just noting the ratio of men and women here, which means women receive more attention than the males. If there is a minority asking for things non standard, and jumping from female to female trying to get non standard services from a smaller pool of females, it creates a serious impact on the community at whole.
I am not saying massages are bad. I like massage therapy, from any gender if skilled. I also like to eat food, and don’t care about the gender of the chef if cooked well. There is also non platonic massages, which is each persons choice on what they like and dislike.
But, this isn’t massagecomfort.com. Also, the intent of the massage is unknowable to many prior to the massage unless you hire a professional massage therapist. So, offering one unsolicited would lead me to believe it would not be received well by most.
Yes, it is a form of touch, but with many different types of intent and skill levels, I don’t think it is a good or appropriate opening gambit prior to developing understanding communication, and I certainly wouldn’t wish to be approached in a fashion of “Hi! Can I massage you?”, unless I specifically went to a place I trust for massages.
@EponymousName ~ 💓💓💓 YES!!! 🎉
@supadupa there is nothing at all wrong with what @Babichev said , in fact I've been telling men to shut up and listen since joining the site . It is hard to listen when one spends so much time defending and denying instead of really hearing somebody though
“Sometimes you just gotta shut up and listen . . . Resistance is a choice.”
From Notes of an Aspiring Humanitarian, it’s an excellent essay that’s relevant to this aspect of the conversation.
https://notesfromanaspiringhumanitarian.com/on-being-called-out-shut-up-and-listen-or-resistance-is-a-choice/
Sounds like the more bickering the less request accepted buttons will be accepted . It's Iike folks going into this thinking folks have alterior motives.like folks got game plans and counter attacks lol
@pmvines and @Babichev no why don’t you two shut up and listen! Not very nice is it. I’m not telling you to shut up, but both of you are being guilty of what you accuse men of doing, not listening. Babichev seems like in every thread you seem to paint All men as awful sick perverts. Some are but I’m sorry you feel this way.
The point went over both of your heads. I’m saying if you want to change peoples minds and convince someone they may be wrong yelling t them is not the way to do it. Ever heard of Daryl Davis? A black musician who just by speaking and befriending klansmen and white nationalists convinced over 20 of them to leave behind their hate including heads of local chapters! And this led to another 200 leaving the Klan. Had he just yelled and screamed none of these guys would have left and they would have continued spewing their hate. But hey what do I know?
@supadupa nah you telling me to shut up and listen doesn't bother me at all. We are all mature adults and can post what we like and a differing of opinion is not something that I get too terribly bothered over . I personally know @Babichev and she speaks from a place of love and tolerance as that is how she lives her life . But she is perfectly capable of speaking for herself so I will not speak on the matter of how she has worded her posts, which as I said are perfectly fine , reasonable, and eloquent. if she feels it is important to address she will do so
@supadupa: Maybe—just possibly—it's not @Babichev's responsibility to "save" boundary-pushing men, to change their views with her gentle reason and compassionate understanding.
Maybe—just perhaps—boundary-pushing men are responsible for themselves.
Maybe—just maybe!—people like Babichev are more concerned with their own safety, with keeping the boundary-pushers away, than with being saints or heroes.
And could it be... could it be that that's just fine?
@EponymousName this 👇🏼what you did here compare to food is total genius!!
Also I think you are really awesome and intriguing!
@DarrenWalker ❤️
@EponymousName Nice one. Quite apt.
@pmvines They still haven't learned to be more like you.
@MaullySterling they cant all be like me, then I would just find myself boring
Im just going to say this.
A very high percentage of a humans knowledge, comes from what?
Experience.
Most of the things we know, arent because we seek the info out for the most part.
You learned timers matter when your pop tart burnt as a kid. You didnt wake up n seek out knowledge of burnt food. No! You learned from experience.
Now from experience, most woman can agree that massage leads to extras and literally any signal or response we give HAS to be well thought because we dont want to give the wrong idea.
Imagine waking up this morning, throwing on your cutest most favorite outfit, seeing a cuddlee, and because you wore a skirt he violated you. Imagine agreeing to a massage and he immediately gets naked but u meant a back rub.
The absolute worst part about literally all of this, is that justice hardly ever sides with the female.
Men are privileged as hell based on the simple fact that you can go jog at 3am, you can go to the mall alone, you dont have to plan an escape route every place you go. Or keep a tracker on your phone and car. Probably dont check in all day everyday either.
Women do any and everything we can to not be put in a sketch situation and massage is nornally one of them
@CutieKat14 Phew, things just got real in here
I find it amusing some of these comments are something else . But I know I seen couple of these folks on catering to the same individuals they speak of on other websites that really go definitely do different comfort. To each is own calling kettle black sometimes.
@CutieKat14 Gurl you are preeeeeaching. And you do it. I find at the same time men are becoming one of the groups most willing to check their privilege when it comes to how they experience life versus women. Other issues, many people aren’t willing.
And hey, guys. We get it, it’s not all of you. But it’s enough of you enough times for it to be a problem.
@MCcuddles2 I wouldn't blame English not being some* people's first language for the outrageously creepy/misogynistic things * some of 'em * say. There are plenty of people who English isn't their first and they don't speak like that.
@Ahmedali999
"i would like to meet people like you so I learn from them I'm just a human sometimes I have wrong though or opinion look the attacks I'm getting here i wish people be like you" "but not all of them don't judge the book by it's cover women get offended easily"
"i would like to meet people like you so I learn from them I'm just a human sometimes I have wrong though or opinion look the attacks I'm getting here i wish people be like you"
"but not all of them don't judge the book by it's cover women get offended easily"
First of, women aren't homogeneous. For you to think that indicates you think in a misogynistic manner.
"I am just a human" isn't an excuse for the terrible things you said. As far as I can see, nobody attacked you here. People simply expressed their shock at the things you said and must've had to laugh it off to keep their sanity at the horror they read coming from you. You can't be talking horribly about women and expect applause, at least not here.
No need to butter me up for my response if you feel like doing so. I am no fan of butter. I just hope you seriously take time to ponder the feedbacks you got and make a positive change. That is, if you aren't trying to troll.
@Catloaf & @CutieKat14 Amen Sistas🙌🏼
@supadupa I get where you're coming from * with the* "Because you catch more flies with honey." However we can't expect people, in this case women, to always be such angels who have unlimited supply of honey to give at that... to men who continually* antagonize, walk over, or push their boundaries, etc. It is not our responsibility to teach men, especially those who choose not to listen, how to respect us. They are more than capable of learning it themselves and we certainly don't need to waste our energy playing therapist, doing free emotional labour for those who disregard having respect for us. I have yet to see the men who talk in such hateful manner do the same for their own sex, not that it would be okay. Though at least they wouldn't come off* as hypocritical. So if they've the knowledge and understanding to not speak ill of men, they should have the same for women.
I believe, there are times that people who are continually* doing harm need to be told to shut it, with no grain of sugar nor a dash of honey added. I take it as verbal defense: more or less the same way you may defend yourself or assert your dominance if someone kept trying to hit you or in fact did hit you. You wouldn't be in the mood to offer them honey while they kept going at you, would you?
@supadupa @Lovelight On the topic of catching flies with honey and vinegar... I couldn't resist any longer
Keep it platonic, just cuddling nothing else.
@squeakytoy interesting. 😂
@Cater2you
"I give give therapeutic sessions part time, but my shirt stays on. Sometimes I wish I could take it off, it's so dang hot here and the a.c. sucks..."
Tank top, with air conditioning on or with windows open?
So just going to throw my 2¢ in. If it's like immediately i totally get why it may be considered a red flag. I will say though that massages (yes over clothes) are done at pretty much any official Cuddle Party event and those events are for platonic touch as well.
There's a term for pre-judging an entire sex of people based on anecdotal examples...hmmmmmmmm.
@MrMarkAndrew I understand you calling it anecdotal but these women have experienced this so to them it is very personal. Consequently, repeat encounters of this kind of behavior falls under “fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, shame on both of us.” It would be rather stupid to continue to let men do this and not consider it a red flag. Are there exceptions? Of course, but do you want to snorkel through a septic tank to find that diamond?
@squeakytoy Does it matter what kind of vinegar? It said balsamic but I would think malt vinegar or rice vinegar would work too.
@UCpaaHVg6u0 I've never tried it! I've been waiting for a fruit fly infestation forever so I could experiment with it. If you manage to test it in real life before I do, I hope you share your results