When compared to what a pro could face, a client getting scammed for 50-100 bucks is like losing a biscuit you got at KFC. It fell out of the window. It's disappointing, but it's not the end of the world. Just report the person and move on with your life.
Violence and abuse on men is grossly underreported for several reasons. I have even heard from someone about being sexually pressured, attempted assault, by a "pro", when he expressed very clearly that he wasn't interested in that. Liike I said, I know a guy who was drugged. It also happens when men go somewhere and there is a guy or a group of guys hidden and waiting to jump him. Men absolutely are taking a risk in these situations. Also, it's irrelevant to compare the two risks. I don't think anyone is saying that a pro SHOULDN'T require certain safety protocols, just that the prospective client has every bit the same right to ask for security as well. The pro is taking on risk and is permitted to ask for security. The prospective client is taking on risk and is permitted to ask for security. Both statements are true. There is no need to tell someone that their risk doesn't matter because someone else thinks they're taking on "more" risk. If someone is concerned, their fears or concerns are real for them and they should be validated in being permitted to do what's needed to feel safe enough to move forward. At the same time, a pro has every right to refuse. I just don't understand invalidating men's concerns just because they are men.
@Mike403 Hilarious and on point.
@MxSmith I see what you're saying about working 15 minutes for free. I wouldn't want to work for free even 15 minutes but that's a completely separate situation in a completely different environment. At work you usually feel safe (unless someone is stalking you or harassing you at work or God forbid a crazy gunman comes into the store on a shooting rampage). When it comes to meeting strangers online you never know what you're going to get. Yes I understand that if you start doing it with a lot of people it takes a lot of time... But isn't safety more important than time, money, or the combination of the two? To me it is. If I were a pro I'd require a free 15 minute consultation. Even I had 10 new people wanting one a week I would get on a call with every single one because safety is more important than anything else. It weeds out the serious people from the ones who aren't, the fake from the real, the scammers from the genuine. With my experience online I know how scammers work. Scammers genuinely hide behind their computer screens like little asshole bitches and don't want to come out and play. They will NEVER get on a call or video with you. Not saying everyone here who won't get on a call is a scammer because there are exceptions. But a 15 minute call makes a world of difference in terms of safety and I've had nothing but good experiences (mostly) because of it. I plan to keep doing it too. Now that I see @Rezz 's explanation of the IDs, I have to agree that it may not be the best idea to give someone random your ID either. A video call is much more safe.
@musicguy99 In addition, this is a self-employed person as opposed to an hourly worker. When you are running your own business, it is well more than normal to have a high amount of unpaid work (one reason for the higher hourly rate). A free consultation call is typically seen as more of an investment than giving away something for free. 🤷♀️
@musicguy99 asshole bitches who won't give you the price you want and the way you want it? This tells me all I need to know.
@achetocuddle he was talking about scammers trying to scam you out of money, nothing to do with rates or procedures, just the patterns he's noticed with scammers. My interpretation.
@Mike403 no it isn't. Nope - watch the language, @CuddleDuncan - edited and removed. [-Sid] That's a thoughtless remark and it's made me angry.
You're fortunate. You have so much money you barely know what to do with it all. And you're right, nobody really cares about a socially robust client who can afford to lose a hundred bucks. But that's not really who we mean by the word "client".
When I started cuddling I saved for three or four months to pay for one hour. £65. It was my only discretionary expense in that time: food, utilities, travel to work, toiletries, one cuddle a quarter. That's it. No clothes, no socialising, no avocado lattes, no netflix. Being ripped off instead of cuddled would have been .... well I don't know what would have happened. Living for three months for a cuddle, not getting it and then having to wait another three months. Uncalculable. In a bad way.
Never happened, never would have happened to me because I had reliable cuddle professionals from the start. But not everywhere has reliable cuddle professionals. Some areas don't have any at all. Some areas have one ... sometimes. Do you risk a booking or take another year without being touched?
A single cuddle session can change somebody's life. For the better I mean. It is therefore reasonable to assume that a single disastrous session can have a similar effect in the opposite direction.
I was at a cuddle event tonight. There was a woman there I hadn't met before this evening. At one point, in an appropriate moment, I offered to hug her. She wanted to, but she was shaking with fear. I mean I could see her shaking. At the first two attempts she wasn't able to do it, but she wanted to continue. We talked for a moment, adjusted the position slightly, and suddenly the moment came and she did it. It was a good hug. I don't know her story but I think it might have been the first time she'd hugged a man since ... well, since whatever it was. What do you think would have become of her if, during the hug, I had reached into her bag behind her and stolen her purse or her phone?
She happened to be a woman rather than a man, but when we're talking about bad stuff happening that's the sort of person we mean by client. The person who is vulnerable in general, and particularly vulnerable to that bad thing in particular.
@CuddleDuncan - I still stand by what I said. Losing money isn't anything close to being a talked or worse.
@Mike403 then you don't understand what I wrote.
Edit: I've added another sentence to the third paragraph to clarify.
@CuddleDuncan 💜👏💜👏💜👏 THANK YOU!!! Spot on! I have clients with high budgets, I have clients who save for months on end to have a session a couple times a year. It can absolutely be a huge deal to lose that. And as you mention, beyond the financial risk, there absolutely is great harm that can be done from a bad session or even just poor communication. This environment can shut people down or open people up, all as a result of what interactions they receive from people. So thank you!!! 💜👏💜👏💜👏
@CuddleDuncan - I did understand. Is missing out on a cuddle because you got ripped off going to ruin the rest of your life? No.
@Mike403 wrong.
@Mike403 you don't understand, and you are blessed to not. Those who do are likely to have experienced deep emotional trauma, know someone (really know them to their depths) who has, or has studied trauma in depth. Emotional trauma can harm you just as deeply as physical trauma. 💜
@CuddleDuncan - Not even close.. I do food delivery on the weekend to help scrape together some extra cash. It's a cuddle session, a non-essentoal activity that won't kill you if you miss out on it.
@CuddleDuncan I appreciate this post and I apologize for not publicly considering the whole and accurate pic.
@Mike403 I still agree with you but I do understand what @CuddleDuncan is saying.
As female enthusiast who would have difficulty affording a pro, I still will always put my safety first even when it causes me to give a few/several good guys less credit than they deserve. Even some women think I am overly cautious and I'm good with that.
@Mike403
a non-essentoal activity that won't kill you if you miss out on it.
Wrong again.
It may be true for you, but it's not true for everybody. @ubergigglefritz hit the nail on the head as usual.
Wait.. people actually died from not cuddling?
@Mike403 yes.
Babies do. (If babies are not touched they just .... die.) Adults with deficient touch lives die decades earlier than those with fulfilling touch lives. People kill themselves when tipped over the edge by disappointments much less than the one we are discussing.
I'm still having trouble understanding the outrage when I simply was saying that the risk of lose money is not even close to the risk of a female being drugged/raped.
@CuddleDuncan - A suicidal person needs to be seeing a mental health professional. A professional cuddle is not a substitute for that.
@Mike403 If you are an emotionally healthy man who can afford to lose a hundred bucks, then yes. Ruins your day, probably your week. But being scammed for the price of a cuddle is not the end of the world and a year later you will probably not remember it.
For a highly vulnerable client it could, in extreme case, mean the difference between living and suicide. In slightly less severe cases it could put back the recovery from trauma by years. There are numerous ways in which the damage could be done: it could be the loss of money itself, the breach of trust, or the loss of the cuddle.
Sure, sometimes we say that suicidal people shouldn't see cuddle professionals because it's asking too much of the professional, and that's fine. But if you truly insist on that, then you are depriving suicidal people of a cuddle, which .... might make the difference to them. So it's a tricky one.
Cuddle professional is absolutely not a substitute for mental health professional. But they do different things. I see both, and I need both.
I'm suddenly reminded of a joke. From the TV show "Mock the Week". They have a section called "Scenes we'd like to see" where comedians improvise. Once it was:
Things a psychiatrist would never say
[Comedian] Your father was right. You are useless.
If a psychiatrist/psychotherapist did say that, the damage could take years to repair. The damage from a cuddle session rip-off could also take years to repair.
Oh, and thank you for engaging in this conversation, I appreciate it. I was upset and pretty blunt.
A trained mental health professional will help them get on the road to recovery. A cuddle may make them feel good in the moment, but what if that pro can't see them anymore? I'm not saying an emotional unstable person can't cuddle, but they should talk to a psychiatrist first.
Cuddle professionals should both know they aren't responsible for their clients' decisions AND also be conscious of how impactful and important their behavior and treatment of clients can be. It is both a responsibility and something we aren't responsible for. We can't solve all their problems, can encourage them seeking a talk therapist, and can be there in a supportive manner to help them through, coinciding with talk therapy. I highly recommend both mental health first aid training and going through ASIST certification. It would be very helpful for all people, not just professionals, but is an example of how we as professionals can be responsible for our impact on other people. 💜
@Mike403 a cuddle is not just about feeling good in the moment. For me the effect of my early cuddles was profound, and they significantly changed my entire perception of human society as it related to me.
From about my third cuddle I was conscious of the dual risks of over-attachment and the cuddler not being available. She no longer cuddles, sadly. We were not able to have a 'last cuddle' because of covid and even though that was two years ago I have not fully got over the difficulties brought up by that unsatisfactory ending.
I'll say that again actually, because it helps illustrate my point. Two years ago my original cuddle therapist stopped cuddling. By that time I had several good relationships with other cuddlers. Nonetheless, that original cuddler stopping, without us being able to have a proper ending, is something which affects my relationships with professional cuddlers today.
In other words, an event that wasn't even a Bad Thing is something that I'm still struggling with.
(Obviously she's perfectly entitled to stop cuddling if she wants to, and we exchanged several very pleasant emails. But it was all rather sudden from my perspective, and we weren't able to meet.)
@CuddleDuncan At least you only wanted a proper ending, not a happy one like a lot of the dudes pros are trying keep safe from. 😜 😂
@Moxytocin
That particular professional was very caring, but also had a streak of steel. If anybody asked her for that I think she might have offered to upgrade them another level and then bitten it off.
😯😬
Better to use a knife and cut it off so she doesn't have to put her mouth some place gross.
JFC that's not any less disturbing.