@jetblack appreciate the comment
@TheMidnightOwl Great suggestions and insight! I once supported a Cuddle Party facilitator who had a claim from a participant about being sexually assaulted during an event. The participant decided to pursue legal action and the facilitator supported her. I thought it was a good idea. It certainly got the perpetrator out of there. I was amazed that it had happened at all given the safe foundation of Cuddle Party. He was a tricky perpetrator who picked the wrong victim in the wrong place. Apparently the participant eventually returned to safely participate again. It had a happy ending. I'm not sure what happened with the legal end of things but pursuing it was certainly helpful. I know this freaks men out, but there are certainly ways to learn to negotiate co-created consent. CuddleParty and the Wheel of Consent are the best I've found for adults. If men want a really safe place to cuddle where the threat of being accused of sexual assault isn't as big an issue, then cuddle with a guy. You can always contact me for that. I do all my connecting virtually these days and men are safest for me given my own trauma history. Unfortunately, men with that level of courage are rare but I have a couple of good connections. I think, as men, we need to take ownership for our emotional and physical nurturing needs and stop thinking that our only source is from women. It's this deep need and dependency on women for fulfilling it that drives sexual assault in my understanding. As for people who are afraid of being assaulted yet want to cuddle, Cuddle Party events are the best in my experience. The advantage of a Cuddle Party is that the rules are very clear. They establish a solid foundation to safety. There is a facilitator there to help if you if need it and there are many witnesses. Perhaps this is something @dove111 would like to try. If there is nothing happening locally there are virtual Cuddle Parties happening. They are rare but very safe.
Thank you, @HealingPartner I appreciate your response to this thread, as well.
@HealingPartner I disagree on the premise that men's biological drive pushes sexual assault. Imo, sexual predators will be predators, thieves will be thieves, and murderers will be murderers. People who commit these crimes dont own up to them - they lie and try to find better ways of committing them.
I think the average person with home training isn't trying to grab a candy bar or a body part.
I think the best way is to improve our tools in outing these people rather than avoiding incidents of co-ed mingling. Just my two cents.
I do think it's cool that you're open to cuddling many folks. Good on you man.
I am very sorry 😣 to hear about the negative effects of boundary pushers, during cuddling! I hope that you all find respectful future cuddle partners and enjoy true platonic affection. Thank you again for bringing this important issue to light. Thank you to many for showing support as well @jetblack @TheMidnightOwl @cylee1180 and many more. @HealingPartner I like your ideas for connecting with others.
Is this why it's so hard to find a cuddle buddy? when all your really want is to hold someone, or be held. It's sad that people like that ruin this sight for people that just want a cuddle. I'm sorry you have experienced this. I'm sorry it made you uncomfortable. There are always those that brake the rules and general decency, the sad thing is the people that genuinely just want to cuddle are the ones that pay for this kind of stuff in the end. I really hope you can heal from your experience. I know for myself it's been hard to heal from some of my traumas. I was hoping to find someone to cuddle with to help heal from some of my traumas. I wish you the best. I hope you never have to deal with people like that again.
@cylee1180 That's fine. I don't know what drives men to sexually assault women. I remember reading a book quite a while ago that was the stories of men who had sexually abused girls, had been charged, convicted and imprisoned for it. Most of them said that they thought that what they were doing was love. They had no idea that it was hurtful (major blind spot in my opinion!). Many had grown up sexually abused themselves so sex and love were profoundly confused in their minds. I think it's good for men to learn to de-sexualize physical intimacy. The best way to do that, in my opinion, is with a person where there is no sexual attraction at all. I tend to find women one on one challenging due to my own trauma history. Even though I'm straight, it's really easy for me to get triggered. Men are much safer but tend to be uninterested. It's a tough situation for me.
@cylee1180 I was going to write something similar but you nailed it. That's a great point that sexual predators share a lot in common with other criminals. Personally I find the closer I get to somebody, understanding their boundaries, the less likely I am to even consider sexual connection without interest from their side - it pretty much goes to zero. So I wonder if people committing sexual assault are sociopathic, unable to consider the needs of others, or knowingly putting id before ego with excuses like "she wanted it" or "all men are like that."
@dove111 I went through a process to get certified with a different cuddle company before coming here and one of thei main things they push is safety. I have a Code of Conduct I go over with my clients before we even meet. I ask if they agree to it before I move forward with a session. If any one were to push any boundaries, I refer back to the Code of Conduct and that they agreed to it. I’ve only had a few incidences at the beginning when I started, but they were reported and banned. I am so sorry this happened to you. If you would like a copy of my C of C I would be glad to share it with you. Hugs!!!
@HealingPartner It's generally understood that assasult in this way is fueled by power, not sex drive. Various things can influence that desire for power but power is the defining reasons. Even with folks who believe what they're doing is love, if psychoanalyzed there's usually a desire to feel power over their victims. This is where controlling behavior also comes from in this context.
This also makes it easier to understand how non-male people sexually assault others; if sex-drive were the determining factor, one would expect only those with raging sex drives to commit these acts. Yet, that is not the case.
If you want to bring it back to men, you could say that in most cultures in the world, men are raised from birth to believe they inherently have more power over others than women, and this is subtly enforced through mass media. When one believes they can do whatever they want with others they'll forget that certain actions can have consequences. Sexual assault just becomes one of those things they can do to whomever.
@dove111 I am so sorry to hear about your experience 🫂 reading these types of posts and having these types of experiences has been shying me away from being so active on this site.
I just want you to know that eventho you feel like the site’s support is lacking, you do have a good support system here. I hope you find your way to the pro’s only forum and find some solace there. My DM’s are also open for a lending ear.
@HealingPartner Thanks for the information and wish you the best in working with your trauma. @cde123 It is all so fascinating. There are so many possible factors that can come into play: toxic masculinity, history of abuse, entitlement, power, criminal or sociopathic mind, lack of values, social awkwardness, general mental illness, or conniving personality.
Also, I feel weird that people call it love when the person is yelling no, stop it, squirming, fighting, and trying to get away. Humans are definitely strange.
I was curious so I dug up some academic research on this. Hall and Hirschman's Quadripartite Theory and Seto's Motivation-Facilitation Model seem to be helpful. I like the risk factors in Seto's model. They are (1) atypical sexuality, enjoying nonconsensual activities (2) antisocial disorders, including general criminality and (3) interpersonal deficits including social skills. Hostile masculinity or entitlement is also called out.
For this site, considering red flags in particular, I guess the takeaway is watching out for men who "may be selfish, exploitative of others, remorseless, and antisocial, [or] with a history of committing other, nonsexual crimes" and/or who have "cognitions that justify sexual aggression". Not sure how one would incorporate that into screening.
I tell pros all the time, that I never bring sexual interests to a cuddling session or to anyone I meet on this website. If I’m interested in something sexual, I’ll go to my local strip club.
@cde123 That last quote was powerful.
@jetblack, thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful words. I find it both heartbreaking and infuriating when women cuddlers blame other women for sexual assault committed by a man.
Thanks Momoo, That makes alot of sense. Even in the stories I read there is an undercurrent of domination going on. They didn't assault adults. They assaulted girls. I wonder why the need to dominate? I realize that patterns of domination/submission are very common in our culture and that Friendliness is severely undervalued yet I'm still curious. What was it in their lives that drove them to seek power over another person so desperately and so violently? One thing I like about Cuddle Parties is that the power structure is about as flat as you can get. It's reinforced by the group structure (coupling up with a sexual partner is valued more highly than being alone or with a group of platonic friends in our culture, communes and tribes are often persecuted) and co-created consent is inherent in its process (a very valuable skill see:https://www.creatingconsentculture.com/). One on one is more difficult, in my opinion, since there are all kinds of dynamics related to privilege and a long history of male domination of women and children that enter more easily (see: https://ccrweb.ca/en/anti-oppression). Thanks for your input! :-) @Momoo
No problem @HealingPartner ! And excellent new points you bring up!
This is why I did walk away from the site at the time! Guys are being recommended to us to do other things. I had one guy claim he agreed to the rules and was trying to persuade me to do other things! He also didn't shower! Omg. Awful experience!
@dove111 I'm so sorry you had that experience. And while I know the people giving vetting tips are trying to be helpful, it can kind of slip into victim blaming territory, so I just want you to know that none of this is your fault, you could have vetted someone fully and that might have still happened if they made that choice.
@jetblack all great points, thank you for that.
Also in general I think one big contributing factor is that there’s a lot of shame and restrictive legislation around actual sex work. If we were just more open and accepting about the people who want to offer that service, I don’t think people would try this sneaky bullshit on a site that’s intended for something else.
@Hathor Let's be honest, even if SW was legal and accepted, there would still be men coming here looking for a cheap deal on something more than platonic, ignoring the whole point of this site. Those clients are simply not welcome here, and neither are pros offering those services.
I’m so sorry this happened to you! I’d definitely report them, let the mods know and take some time to yourself to take a break- be it temporarily or permanently
Some of these experiences mentioned are the exact reason I do not offer in person sessions at the moment. I am still new to this site, and I am sure it may be frustrating for those who are actually seeking platonic sessions. Also, sometimes it takes me a day or two to reply and when I go to read my messages most of the accounts are banned on the site... so I can only imagine what could happen if you met those people in person...
@cde123 I wish deregulation would work, but I feel this still would happen if there were a SW shop on every corner.
This happens to women masseuse, at night clubs, and even in public:
2018 Study w Smart Dresses that track how often a woman is groped.
Woman records how often she gets cat called and harassed on the street for 10 hours.
In Japan, SW is more socially acceptable and more easily accessible. Yet, men grope women so much they need to give women their own subway car so they can avoid groping:
@cde123 maybe! You might be right. But I still believe that a lot of predatory behavior is connected to sexual shame.
Hi Hathor,
I think male violence is connected to early childhood trauma. It's a deeper and earlier developmental wound than sexual shame. Given that it happens so early in life, it's pre-verbal and hence not easily accessible to conscious awareness.
See: https://www.zurinstitute.com/resources/touch-in-therapy/#special “American males are given less affectionate touch in infancy and early childhood and this has been linked with higher rates of violence and aggression in later life” (from Redleaf, A. (1998). Behind closed doors: Gender, sexuality, and touch in the doctor/patient relationship. Auburn House.)
and: https://drgabormate.com/jian-ghomeshi-problem-narcissistic-male-rage/
and: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jian_Ghomeshi
@Hathor @cde123 @cylee1180 @Momoo
That’s a bummer that happened I’m sorry. There are 610,000,000 hookup sites for out there but people are people and you never really know what you’re going to get. On both sides. That’s why it’s important to do it in phases. Scrutinize profile, check out karma if any, have some message banter on this platform, then moved to a telephone conversation, then moved to a public meet for coffee etc., then if all lights are still green meet in person.
I’ve been on this site for a few years now, obviously you have to subtract Covid. And even though I am so grateful for the fantastic women that I’ve met that have all left me great reviews, I think six, it’s still very difficult on the site and responses are few and far between. Despite the nice reviews and what I’d like to think is a darn decent profile. I imagine it’s exponentially easier for women though, but hey, it’s the internet…
Hi again Hathor,
Here's a group of guys that are doing what is, in my opinion, really deep healing of culturally induced wounds:
Men's Therapeutic Cuddle Group (see: https://www.meetup.com/N-W-Philly-Mens-Only-Cuddle-Group/ and https://www.thesun.co.uk/sun-men/8935931/man-saved-marriage-cuddling-men/)
They are my heroes! :-)
@WestsideMarc, I agree that it's easier for women to find cuddle partners here. BIG caveat - it's not easy to find SAFE men to cuddle with. Essentially, men and women both have problems here, they're just different problems.
Thanks for the info @HealingPartner! If I were closer to there I'd check out the group.