Your opinion on having pro-cuddlers on this website?

Mark

Hello all, I'm really interested in your opinions regarding professional cuddlers joining this website.

It breaches the joining agreement to sell services here however we do regularly see professional cuddlers join this website. We consider this website 'completely free' and therefore in some respects professional cuddlers being here goes against that principle. However, I've also seen that many members find value in being able to easily find and talk to them directly via this website.

Please can you give your general opinion on whether they should be allowed to operate here?

Bruin

I would have no interest in that. Rather like the dating/romance agenda that is slowly imposing itself on the site. Maybe give them their own forum page to tout their services?

docgatorb

Quite honestly, those who mention that they belong to a professional service don't seem to spend any more time on the site that anyone else. I'm not sure why they even mention it. If I was solicited for services, I would be bothered, but just mentioning in your profile that you do this for a living doesn't bother me.

JoeSomebody2

I enjoy the honesty of putting forth you ARE a professional cuddler, but I dig docgatorb's comment: unless they are giving something to the community other than a free advertisement for their work, I don't believe they have a place. Of course, should a professional cuddler here be open to discuss, I'm all for hearing it out. Certainly shows more than just wanting to advertise yourself.

Glad to see it's Mark who's bringing this discussion to light.

Following the theme from the last few comments, unless they're actually going to engage the community, they're just exploiting the site for free advertising. If Mark decides to start selling ads, then that would be an appropriate place for them, but otherwise it'd be best not to have them around.

cuddleaddict

Is this becoming just another "dating/romance" site as bruin is suggesting & supporting? macho & sexy profile pics are becoming more common. The snuggle concept is NON-ROMANTIC/NON SEXUAL & PLATONIC. Mark-you're a pioneer in setting up this site, but is does seem to be drifting from your orignal intent. I am not a professional, but I've been closely following the movement. They face opposition-Madison, known as a liberal thinking city, had one particular DA & one police official that forced them to give up. Samantha Hess in Portland faced a megaphone maniac on valentines day. check out web text & videos. cuddlr app is no more. Private snugglers face real security concerns. Point being-concept is what I stated above, whether fee based, like a massage, or privately arranged, like you intend here. One movement. A separate section as Bruin suggested is a good idea. You'd be doing the movement a great service. Now, judging from the forums & my own experience on this site, it's really hard for a guy to find a platonic female snugglebuddy. A fee based experienced person or establishment is a secure alternative. The fee bother anybody? It shouldn't. Think about how popular massages are. With fee based snugglers the fee goes to an experienced person who sets aside the time for you whenever you feel the need & may have to pay rent if an establishment. So if a male or female can't find a snugglebuddy, a directory here would help them find a fee based person or establishment. In US, many have to "stay low" to avoid being accused of being just a coverup for prostitution. We need to stand together-in the US we are facing a powerful ultra conservative challenge. Mark-You started this site- there is a need & place for both. Thanks.

Tom33

It doesn't bother me at all. I don't see the need for them to have a separate forum or for them to be set apart. It's not pushed in anyone's face. I'm sure some people even appreciate it, if there's no one in there area.

Mark

I appreciate your views everyone, please keep them coming.

Right now my opinion is fluid but I'm inclined to think that given we're in the early stages of this concept in general, it's better to have options for people than not. And if there is lack of membership in your area, it's surely better to have the option of a pro-cuddler than not to?

Perhaps we could have it so these professionals have profiles that are clearly tagged as such so people don't waste time sending a message to find out it's not what they expected.

cuddleaddict

Thanks Mark, I think your thoughts are headed in the right direction- either tagged or separate, but not ruling them out. Providing the option would definitely help people in "sparce" areas. This concept is needed for many different types of people, males & females, in all sorts if different situations. Thanks Mark for bringing up the topic,seeking input from others, and for considering alterations in the joining agreement.

Bruin

*Supporting?*

Just to be absolutely clear, the idea of this becoming another romance/dating site gets *no* support from me.

Mark

We will never be a dating website.

cuddleaddict

bruin-Looks like I owe you an apology. I misinterpreted your initial statement "rather like the dating/romance agenda" to mean you liked what was happening.

CNYMike

I don't mind.

CNYMike

Mark, read your more recent post. Agree with your take on it being an option; I used it in March and had an excellent time. Whether that's something you don't want here over the long term remains to be seen.

I don't like it. They are exploiting the free site for their business, actively soliciting customers here and it turns people off to the site.

cuddleaddict

Professionals, individuals or establishments, have an unusual problem in the US. Getting the word out to the people who might really need them, vs attracting negative attention in general public advertizing from those who don't agree with the "cuddle only" concept & can cause tremendous difficulties. (Please see my earlier long post) This may be the only site where they can reach out to a population of like-minded individuals without possible negative repercussions.

Anyone who meets the right platonic seeking person on this site can be particular about who they associate with. Being a female or male "professional" means more than making money. It takes a special person to be soothing & comfortable with all ages, all body types, opposite sex, same sex, hetero, gay, single, married, recently widowed & on & on. Everyone, please consider this as we help Mark make a decision. Thanks.

Bruin

Apology accepted, CA. And thanks for alerting me to that possible interpretation of what I'd written.

thalo

I think it's fine to have professionals here. There are few options in my area and I did look for a professional, just to see, and I can't find any of them either. So I'm just out of luck. I'd appreciate more options, like Mark said. I think maybe a flag/marker/sticker of some sort on the profiles of those who charge would be good.

And though it might not be viable, it would be great if people who charge gave you a donation that could be used for publicity to grow the site and get more members. That's what I most want to see - more members.

I love your vision Mark. Keep up the good work.

Docgatorb: Sometimes the pros that have been advertised here didn't know they had been. I saw one woman from a professional service who had a profile here, and she'd never heard of this site. She believed the ads was placed by the owner/operator of the service she worked for, not the cuddlers themselves. That would explain whey they didn't spend any time here.

I want to elaborate on Cuddleaddict's last post. I have patronized professional cuddlers (though not via this site) and generally enjoyed the experience. There is a level of security in seeing a pro. At least one service I know has a contractual agreement with their cuddlers stipulating that they will see anybody; they can't decline to cuddle with you because of age, race, etc. People who want to meet each other as private citizens can be as selective as they want to be. A pro's only concern should be the color of your money. If pros are allowed to advertise, they should have to agree to that, as well as to clear price disclosure. And yes, a conspicuous tag would be great.

docgatorb

I find GoodHands comment more disturbing than the general acceptance of professional cuddlers, that is the idea that someone can falsify a profile for someone else. I don't remember if there were any security checks when registering here. You should at least have to give a valid email address that you confirm. There could be levels of confirmation such as including a snail mail address confirmation.

cuddleaddict

Regardless of personal preferences, we seem to be approaching consensus- if fee based, this should be noted on a profile. Also, we've heard from severaI people of their positive experiences with fee based snugglers, so I think it's important to include this option.

Submitted for your comments 3 possible categories:

SNUGGLE FRIEND: Seeks companion for snuggling only, without romantic or sexual complications. Mutually beneficial.

FREELANCE SNUGGLER: Works independently, may travel to, or see people at their own home. Fee involved.

PROFESSIONAL SNUGGLER: Accepts all regardless of age,sex,appearance, orientation, race, etc. May have multiple people available. May have permanent location. Fee involved.

If a new searchable field was added (mandatory?) to each bio, you could select one or more catagories to include in your search.

I think this compromise may satisfy the majority of contributors.

What do you think?

Cuddleaddict, that sounds fine, only I would eliminate the distinction between freelance and pro. If they cuddle for cash, they are a pro.

cuddleaddict

Thanks GoodHands. Actually, I got the idea of the distinction from your thinking on "level of security" & especially "contractual agreement with their cuddlers stipulating that they will see anybody; they can't decline to cuddle with you because of age, race, etc. People who want to meet each other as private citizens can be as selective as they want to be". One other thing: professionals like Samantha Hess, Steve Maher & others will see clients of either sex.

I checked merriam-webster definition of "professional"- Payment for skills, experience, etc is of course part of definition. Other parts of definition are "characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession.....exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner...following a line of conduct as though it were a profession. Sounds like this was your experience. You also probably know many snugglers with "establishments" receive only part of the fee; the rest going to the "coordinator" for scheduling, rent & upkeep of facility, etc. So my thinking was to reserve the term "professional" for the approach you detailed & experienced, and another for "freelancers" or "independents" who are private, can be selective, etc. Then each searching individual could decide what type they would prefer.

Either way's ok by me. I think this discussion is really accomplishing something significant. Lets hear from others! Any thoughts at this point MarK?

Mark

I'm keenly watching this topic and taking everything into consideration, thank you.

I'm still liking the Pro tag idea but think one for Freelance is unnecessary and could potentially confuse.

docgatorb

And all this time, I thought that I was a pro at cuddling but since I don't take money, maybe I'm just a slut for cuddling. No offense intended, but I think these titles give a certain elevation to the status. I wouldn't make a special status, the more i think about it. I wouldn't allow anyone but the member themselves to make a profile on here and if they want to disclose how they earn money on their profile, it's is up to them. I wouldn't want any solicitation for any remuneration. or a special area and I would be opposed to the use of this site specifically for that, I can visit the Snuggle Buddies site on my own. We already have a excess of inactive members and this only compounds the problem.

The site already suffers from an identity problem (it looks like a dating site in spite of the insistence that it's not). Keep it simple, if you want to find another human who simply wants to to cuddle, this could be the site to facilitate that. Once that is actually accomplished with more than a handful of contributors, you can branch out and consider other areas to develop such as support to a developing industry. Should we have a shop to buy pillows? T-Shirts that say 'I need a hug"?
Again, no offense intended to anyone especially to everyone who has put in the time and effort to make this site. I would love to see this site flourish.

cuddleaddict

Thanks Mark. I agree that unless the term "Freelance" is completely well defined, it could be confusing. Here are some more thoughts & personal experiences I should now relate.

Most professions, or professional organizations, operate under a “code of ethics”. In the case of established snuggle services this includes strict confidentiality and the assurance that no one in the organization would accept additional money in return for sexual favors. If this did happen, they would be dismissed immediately from the organization. The reputation of an establishment is extremely important not only for their clients, but in maintaining continued acceptance by the community they're in.

I too have visited an organization not once but several times, & have been extremely impressed by the professionalism & very pleased with the relaxing visits. I've also learned a great deal about how an organization like this is run & continues to be successful. As my profile name implies, I'm a “cuddleaddict”, due to my life experience & personal psychology. I also made contact with a possible “cuddlefriend” through this site, had an arrangement for meeting which fell through even after extensive communications. While following this discussion I realize now that she may be a “freelancer” or “independent”. Had I known of this individuals status, I would not have made contact, gone through an emotionally draining experience, because I already have a person at an organization that I'm extremely pleased with. However, I have no general objection whatsoever to the concept of the freelancer.

I'm very lucky to have a wife/soulmate who understands my additional need, knows & approves of my visits to an organization, and even helped me in my communications with the individual. But I appreciate the confidentiality aspect of an organization since not everyone understands or approves of this concept, might view me negatively, or even fight the concept publicly.

This is a main reason why I'd like to see 3 classifications, “snugglefriend” (or similar), “professional”, and “freelance” (or “independent”). All would then be “on the table” & each individual can decide what they're most comfortable with and may avoid the frustration I went through.

Also, there is nothing to prevent an individual from accepting additional money for sexual services. You've stated you're completely against this & want such people reported. But it could happen, but not with a professional organization. The huge majority of us want to see this concept grow and be accepted all over the world, and want your hard work with this site to be successful. I just want to put my experiences in the US on the table.

I'm so glad you're open minded, opened up a forum for discussion, willing to bend your original thoughts on banning professionals & now leaning towards a pro tag. The snuggle concept is still in its infancy, I'm convinced it will grow even into accepted, reimbursed, medical practice. History will not forget your contributions to "the movement". Thank you.

docgatorb

What if we create a section where members can evaluate services and such that may be of interest to other members. This could include specific cuddle services, cuddle parties organizers and spaces available to hold events, just to mention a few. By delving too deeply into our definition of cuddlers for hire, we may be giving the image that we are more involved with providing these services and that this site is all about that. Evaluating these services, yes, provide these services, no. Shouldn't the definition of these services be something that is done by those specific members, as professionals?

The above description is example of an appropriate review and I think it could be helpful to anyone considering such a service. Specific identification of the organization would be more helpful. Why generalize that all 'professional' services are highly ethical and, therefore, that 'freelancers' may be less so? I'm glad to hear of one organization that is professional and ethical.

Perhaps a more general discussion of what information is useful on a profile should be considered before making a big deal of the money exchange issue. Openness and honesty are valuable traits and should be valued in all profiles and communication between members.

cuddleaddict

Docgatorp, thanks for joining this discussion! Your profile shows you're clearly very dedicated to the overall cause. You are highly professional, but you don't take money-a perspective this discussion hasn't yet seen. I greatly admire what you do on a voluntary basis. I'm not fixated on the classification approach, and I agree with so many of your points that I'd like to elaborate on later.

Mark

"I think these titles give a certain elevation to the status"

I agree - we don't want to encourage users to go with a professional over that of standard member. Right now, I can see 'SELLER' being a better tag than 'PRO'. I'm sure there are more appropriate names but it's not important at this point.

I'm in favor of allowing professionals, as long as they're clear that they are requiring a fee.

cuddleaddict

I
agree with Mark & others that “we don't want to encourage users
to go with a “professional” over that of “standard member.”
Thalo stated he basically had no luck with regular members, (we all
hope that can change) then searched for professionals, but none were
in his area, but that he'd appreciate more options. That likely goes
for many others.

My
intent with suggesting “categories” was not to give elevation to
the status of “professional”, but to try to find a way to sort
out standard members from fee based organizations or individuals &
to spark discussion.

I
didn't intend to imply that all “professional” services are
highly ethical and, therefore, that “freelancers” may be less so.
There is certainly wide variation in how organizations choose to
present themselves. Some have chosen a higher
profile route with a storefront, items for sale, and most recently,
an appearance on “America's Got Talent”. Others are low profile
with no store front or even signage to provide clients with
confidentiality.

However,
every organization I've investigated has printed rules for clients
which must be signed. To quote Docgatorb, ”there
is a level of security in seeing a pro. At least one
service I know has a contractual agreement with their cuddlers
stipulating that they will see anybody; they can't decline to cuddle
with you because of age, race, etc. People who want to meet each
other as private citizens can be as selective as they want to be”.

An
individual provider may also adhere to high standards, and there may
also be considerable variation in the how they present themselves
publicly. Organizations most frequently have a base of operations,
individual providers may travel to clients or meet them at their
home. Some have met difficult local resistance with the home based
concept. Resistance to the cuddle concept itself is significant in
the U.S. where we find an increasingly widening gap between “left &
right” thinkers.

We've
heard from those including myself who have visited organizations;
docgatorb would like to see specific
identification of organizations & rating. I regularly visit “The
Snuggery” in upstate Rochester, NY and have been extremely pleased
with my relaxation visits, the staff, the environment, scheduling &
confidentiality. Five star rating for the Snuggery.

We
all hope that this site can expand to include more “local”
regular members. A positive change-lately I've seen an increasing
number of newly joining women with “normal”, not overtly “sexy”,
profile pictures- thank you & welcome!

Anyone,
male or female, who is looking for more than platonic snuggling, need
to get off this site. Guys who post overly macho profile pics,
sexually suggestive profile names, or most importantly, when meeting the potential snuggler, they find out he's out for more- they need to be shown the door.
We don't want such people to scare away new or potential members.

On
classification- most seem to agree that those who offer fee based
cuddle services should clearly identify themselves as such, perhaps
in their profile is the best place to start. We could suggest various
terminology, to toss out a few more: “fee based”, “for hire”,
“commercial”, but it doesn't really matter as long as it's
clearly stated.